Ya might say she was "Miele-Mouthed"? Phumorchard!

Gary

Oh she was a snot!

And, I forgot to add the call to Fisher Paykel the other day. Got the nicest lady on the phone - asked a quick question regarding the discontinued model vs. the new and she giggled and said "I don't know but let me email you a brochure". Sigh.

Plumorchard, I'm so sorry to hear you had such a horrible experience. It's too bad, because they seem like a terrific product, but any good feelings you might have had about them have probably evaporated, and with good reason. If you are so inclined, you might call the number at Miele USA and complain. I bet they'd like to know, and if it was online conversation, there's very likely a record. Someone like that needs to be called on their behavior. Not only that, but they might be inclined to make amends in some way...you never know! :-) Fortunately for them, I had the opposite experience when I was researching my cooktop--everyone put up with my gazillion questions very politely.

I do sympathise with you about the lack of knowledge in sales rooms. You have to be really lucky to get a person who knows anything at all about the products they're selling--but even then you can't expect too much. Sometimes I think that I'm so spoiled by the vast pool of community knowledge here that no sales person could ever hope to come close to answering my questions adequately.

You did not ask for oven suggestions, but I will say that I have been very happy with the performance with my non-Icon Electrolux. I've had it for a few months, no complaints at all. I'm not sure if they fit your requirements, but if so, you might look into them. They're a pretty good value--more expensive than some, but not up there in Miele/Wolf territory price wise.

Best of luck to you,
Cj

It seems Miels needs to "Weed out the Flack". I don't know if you saw the post about the Miele DW that was leaking rinse aid. She went thru the same thing, got a rude guy, but she hung in there and called Miele parts---got hold of a real nice lady there, and turns out the parts she wanted,(which the grumpy guy said did not exixt) well the lady sent her a free one.

I would have called Miele or sent an email (as high as I could in Miele) and try to get that "Clown" fired--but chances are It would "backfire" and the "Nice Lady" would get fired as she was not "Watching after AssEts" like the grumpy guy was??? Ya Thinksÿÿÿ

Gary

Now, now, Gary. It was a good pun, but if she'd really been mealy mouthed she wouldn't have said anything offensive enough to make Plumorchard reject her whole company.

I've called the toll free Miele tech help a few times and always got good responses.

I'd choose the oven on the quality of the oven, however, rather than the quality of the help. I've heard some unfortunate things about Bosch, though the BSH repairman thinks they're okay.

Something I found very helpful was to read all the use and installation guides online. The other thing (besides this forum) that I found valuable was talking to the service people.

Good luck!

The funny thing about the Miele call is that it wasn't technical, it had nothing to do with a specific product but how to order one from the online store. I had a question before I put it in my "cart" online. It was amazing really. She sighed (out loud), wouldn't respond, and flat out talked down to me. By far, the worst experience with any manufacturer I've had. Again, I had great response from others there the week before. We do have a Miele dw and it has been problem free for 3 years - which is one reason I would consider the brand. (probably just jinxed that!)

I have read the users manual for each oven we are considering. In some cases, that has created other questions that I've been able to track down answers to and I've got a pretty good idea of how they each work. Granted - seeing something live would help too.

I'm still not sure what the deal is here with Bosch. It seems to be OK out "there" just not here. Honestly, I've heard unfortunate things about them all.

I have talked with a service rep that has helped us with other things over the years. He is an independent. I also asked a friend who had a service company in the past. They both say Whirlpool products.

I had the Bosch 500 series single oven installed about 2 weeks ago under a raised counter (but not under a cooktop). While limited, I already have some service and use experience!

I purchased the oven with all of my other appliances for the remodel through a local appliance store that is known for service and helping to coordinate manufacturer service calls. Half of the display panel went out within a day of install. I contacted the store, who coordinated a Bosch authorized service call within 2 days. (I get the feeling that if I pushed to have a new oven delivered they would have done that as well, but since it was already in and wired, I preferred to avoid that since this seemed like a simple âÂÂbad boardâ type issue.) The authorized service rep was friendly, thorough and gave me a lot of tips about my appliances. He had to order a part that was in within 5 days.
I asked him about the issues that I had heard about (on this board) from using the self clean mode on ovens (all brands not just Bosch). He told me that had been an issue a while ago, but Bosch seems to have solved it with a better vent. He pointed out the vent along the top of the door and advised me to put a heat resistant towel over it when taking something liquid or messy out of the oven so it doesnâÂÂt spill into the cavity between the glass.

I used the oven for the first time this weekend. While I have a learning curve to get used to the convection modes, the regular bake worked well (bakes evenly, unlike my old Whirlpool range). ItâÂÂs a nice big oven. The vent fan does a great job of keeping the oven cool, which was set between 375 and 425 degrees continually for about 4 hours. While the fan was running the granite over the oven and cabinet sides barely became lukewarm, and the oven itself and drawer underneath were only slightly warm. Although when the fan shut off (probably when the oven got somewhere below the 200 degree mark), the front of the oven did become more warm.

So far so good. I couldnâÂÂt justify the cost of the Miele oven or Wolf, so the Bosch seemed to be the best compromise for me. The only thing that the 800 series had that I wanted was the full extension rack, and the appliance store happened to have an extra that they threw in with the package. Plus I liked the look of the knobs.

I researched to death as well, and came to the conclusion that every appliance has problems, and every manufacturer has some service issues. So I picked based on my budget, features important to me, and then the overall frustration level I sensed in various reviews of the specific appliances. I also have a Bosch induction cooktop, and Miele dishwasher and warming drawer. Only time will tell if I made the right choices.

skitdel - thanks so much for the info above. It is good to hear service went well when you needed it.

We had that oven on our short list - the Bosch 500. I had found a floor model at the Sears outlet for $1000. The door had some minor dings at the bottom that were visible. I tried to convince myself I could live with them or replace the door. Once I got pricing for the door replacement ($200+) and was told we needed a tech to do it for us (more $). I figured we would do just as well to order new. It also had missing accessories and seemed the top was dented in a little. It might have been fine but I chickened out. I do like the oven and the knobs too!

Anyway, we also ruled out the Miele, Wolf, etc because of cost. It is a challenge but I'm trying to stay at/below $1000 for the oven. That means floor models, outlets, online listings, sales, discontinued models on special etc and I'm OK with that. Honestly I keep coming back to the fact that some of the best food I've ever eaten has come from my aunt, mom and grandmother. The ovens they have/had were nothing special at all. My aunt still has a military-green Kenmore oven that cooks like a charm. 70's or earlier? Anyway, I hope for her sake it never fails her as I'm not sure anything today would make her happy.

We just ordered the Bosch 300 induction cooktop too. How do you like your cooktop? And, funny - we have the Miele dw. Going on 3 years and no issues. The only reason we went with that brand at the time was the no flood feature - our kitchen is over a basement workshop and we were trying to protect that if it leaked.

Plum,

What size and style oven are you looking for? I'm in your area and looking at appliances too. I'm happy to let you know if I find anything that meets your criteria. I was looking for a 27" oven so floor models were out for me as most are 30". I've seen a number of things on CL in ATL, but I've also checked for Greenville, Chattanooga and B'ham as all are within 2 hours of us. I've got a couple of items I'm still looking for, but I have time.

Good Luck in your search.

dodge59: Please do not distort what others post. I was the one with the rinse aid dispenser problem. If you check my post I NEVER said the guy was RUDE or GRUMPY. I said "tech support was very negative & said whatever, the whole dispenser would have to be replaced & thought the replacement seal was not available". Note that he THOUGHT it was not available - in fact HE was the one who put me through to parts for me to check for the seal availability AND he was the one who looked up the price of the dispenser. Bottom line is that Miele sent a COMPLIMENTARY replacement seal for my DW to see if the lesser approach would work. I don't think there is any need to escalate the situation and I certainly would not dream of complaining about either of the two people I spoke with at Miele.

Hi Plumorchard
I have the Bosch 30â 500 series cooktop. The only difference between that and the 300 seems to be the precise select controls and metal strips on the front and back. I havenâÂÂt used it much yet, but like it so far. I really agonized between the Miele and Bosch for the cooktop. In the end the deciding factor was the cut out size. Realistically, the Bosch has more than enough power for the way I cook and I prefer the larger hob towards the back.

And oh, I feel your pain with the appliance decisions. This was so much easier âÂÂback in the dayâ when we went to an appliance store (or a few if you were a âÂÂreal shopperâÂÂ!) and just picked one based on price and features on the tag. The only reviews were from Consumer reports and friends or family members who usually had a preferred brand. This time around I would see cut out and wiring specs when I closed my eyes at night. I Googled until my fingers hurt and made several customer service center calls as well. While I think all of this information really helps us make better choices, we can also be paralyzed by the knowledge that no matter how much or little we spend or who we buy from we can be purchasing aggravation in already frustrating times. Lemons, poorly designed models and bad service are not new. We just didnâÂÂt know about so many of them which made us feel better.

missstella - thanks so much. Once I know for certain I will let you know in case you come across anything. I really appreciate the offer!

skitdel - thanks for the follow up. The differences in the 500 and 300 cooktop you noted were what I found too. I did like the lack of the ss strips on the 300. Precise select would have been nice but couldn't have it both ways. So we just went with the 300 and it is a little lower priced. Can't wait to try it out.

Your comments above are right on target. My DH summed it with "they can all suck, just how much money do you want to risk to get something that sucks?"

I do like the Bosch oven (500) and it is still on the list for consideration. Right now I'm on thought process that simpler is best for us. We'll see how it ends up!

Skitdel: I'm curious on your under counter oven that is in a raised cabinet....is it a regular undercabinet oven cabinet that has been built up on a base of some sort? Do you have a photo posted someplace?

Sorry rikerk, didn't see your post until now. I don't have pictures posted - we're still partially under construction.

The oven cabinet itself (with granite top) is 43 1/4" high and the single wall oven sits a little over 12" off the ground with a narrow drawer underneath. The oven is only slightly higher than my old range oven, but is much easier on my back than a regular 36" height under counter. There's a 12" wide cabinet same height next to it for cookie sheets. Hutch type open shelving will go over the 2 cabinets. I have a microwave/steam oven sitting on that counter, and it seems like a good height for that too.