Wolf are semi-open burners and do not have the same heat direction to the center of the pan that the BS and CC have.

American Range also has the Performer Series. A little cheaper.

I don't know of anyone here on GW that has bought one.

There are some reliability questions with AR.

Thank you, Deeageaux.
On the American Range website, I couldn't find the Performer series - The only 30" I saw had sealed burners, though up to 17,000 BTU. If you have a link or way to search to the Performer (and about its problems) I'd appreciate it.

Yebo,
You can find the AR Performer range on the Plessers, and Dvorsons sites. Have yet to hear of anyone who's bought one, or see any installed shots.

The Performer Series just came out and have not heard of any quality defects on it but the oven is the same as other AR ranges.

www.americanrangelawsuit.com

There was another online AR lawsuit site but that appears to be settled.

http://americanstoves.com/performer-ranges.php?recordID=428

30" Peformer Series $2,999 with free shipping.

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/appl/msg0323094930353.html?31

If you are still interested would read through above thread.

Here is a link that might be useful: AR Performer Series PDF

Also Hotpoint, Amana, GE, Premier .... here is a link to AJ Madison.

Here is a link that might be useful: 30

The only other open-burner 30" gas range I can think of is the Viking VGIC530-4B. Unfortunately, it probably is the same price point as the others you have mentioned, it's about $3500 in the stainless steel version. You can get the Viking in a number of colors, which can really add wow factor to your kitchen. The Bluestar has that color option too. Viking has had some bad history on quality control, though they are apparently trying to overcome that; not sure how successful they have been.

Here is a link that might be useful: Viking 30-inch Open Burner Range - click on the colors to see the range in color

Viking is semi-open like Wolf.

The low end Premier,Amana,Hot-point,random generic Chinese brand are another type of semi-open burner that existed in mainstream gas ranges before sealed burners dominated the market.

BS,CC,and AR PS are commerical type true open burners that are in a seperate performance category.

I've seen a working model of the new American "Performer Series" with open burners. There's a Miele showroom in San Francisco that has them. A friend of mine has the sealed burner model and loves it and has had no problems-and she does nothing but cook. Anyway for a true open burner there's just those 3 brands, Capital, Bluestar and American. And American is trying to hit a lower price point with their new open burner model...anyhow, my neighbor bakes all the time in her "Heritage Series" model and has had no problems with the oven.

I own a Bluestar and love my range as well.

yebo: How close are you to the Canadian border? You can get a 30" RCS for $2000-2500, the price seems to vary from time to time. The product is made in the US so their would be no duty when bringing it over, I would assume you would pay American tax's at the border. Just think of it like you are "bringing it back home" :)

Anyway, I would say this ranks as the best bang for the buck of any professional range available. It has convection, and broiler just like RNB. The major disadvantage is 15k max burner, however read mojavean's "hotrod" post if you desire extra power. If the budget is tight, the hotrodding could easily be done down the road. The minor disadvantage is it does not have the cast iron filler grates between the left and right burners, but again parts can be ordered.

A friend of mine has this model, not hot rodded (yet), and he is delighted with it.

Tyguy,
Thank you. That sounds great -- but I am in NYC and fear that the transportation costs (I'd have to rent some vehicle and drive it) would eliminate the savings. What do you think?

In any event, I really appreciate your review of the RCS. I've been debating it.

yebo: I don't think renting a truck would be crazy expensive, but yes it would start to mitigate the savings.

What is the going price for the RCS in your area?

tyguy,
I've had more tourble finding out on line than I thought I would - but think the price may be around 3200... plus whtever the hood, backsplash, etc., of course.

Maybe you should call a cartage company to see how much it would cost to have delivered. If I can help you out in any way I would be glad to help.

There is also another way to do this. At one time I bought a cast iron claw foot tub from Rhode Island. I was saving about $1000 buying it there compared to Toronto. I decided to pick it up myself, and the money I saved buying it in Rhode Island paid for my little vacation to New England. Any chance I get for a "free" vacation to gorgeous new england in the summer, I am jumping on!! :)

Quote on RCS 30" is $3175. It's a big difference from Canadian Costco, but given the "hassle quotient" probably not enough for me to do. Thanks for the thought.

And - what about Five Star :).

Five star is old style open burner technology, while thelr sealed burners boast 21,000 BTU their open burners are only 14,000. Check their site, not all the online stores have the specs listed correctly. I would stick with the BlueStar or CC.

Yebo,

What is wrong with your current Wolf range?

I would keep that over something like Fivestar. Like Caddi said these are the old Amana-Hotpoint type burners. If your old Wolf is operational maybe keep that till you can swing a Culinarian or RNB.

Yebo,

I am in NYC too and settled on a 30" Capital Culinarian but no one would sell it to me without a vent hood that exhausts outside. I live in a hi-rise that doesn't allow outside venting. Are you going with open burners and a recirculating vent hood?

Deeageaux,
I love my Wolf but ... it is a restaurant range. Came when I bought my place. There is no vent or hood -- Wolf told me it ran too hot for a recirculating hood/filter, and due to architecture of the building, can't be externally vented. Has no broiler. Now is next to wooden cabinets. Obviousy, I am here, but I've gotten more uncomfortable w/ safety issues and heat generated.

elisamama- I'm very interested in what you say. Yesterday, a CC seller (and a BS dealer re: RCS)told me the 30"CC would be fine with recirculing hood/filter. If you have any ideas on how objectivly I can determinr what I can do - range and hood-wise- I'd really appreciate it.

elisamama.....In my opinion it makes no real difference which unit you use, CC BS or maytag.

What creates the possible problem is what you cook no what you cook with.

Some sales people think that because the BS and CC have so much power / heat you will get to much heat coming back into the room or that the fitters will distort,

1) A hood with good stainless steel baffle filtters gets rid on one possible problem.
2) AS for to much heat, again i feel this is incorrect, turn your current burner onto high and put your hand above the flame, it will be really hot, then put a pan oven the burner and do the same the temperature is much less, this effect is even more pronounced when you use a true open burner due to the heat going to the center of the pan.

No reasonable sales person would ever recommend using a recirculating hood, but in your case you have no option so try to get a hood that will capture as much smoke as possible ie over a 30" range try to do a 36" x 27' or 30" x 27"

Yebo...Good to hear that a recirculating hood may be Ok. It's between a dcs range & the Culinarian but I am still undecided on the hood.

Trevor...Can't do any wider than 30". Haven't found a 30x27 yet that's not too high but I will keep looking. Thanks for the suggestion.

I had a 36 inch Garland range (predecessor to Blue Star) with a recirculating hood in NYC for ten years. I came to believe the hood was more for show than having a real purpose. That being said, I rarely thought I needed the vented hood. Sometimes the kitchen got smokey when broiling and the kitchen got hot in the summer. We did have a window in the kitchen.

I have only an electric cooktop but I worry when I hear about using a gas stove with a recirculating vent. How does that handle carbon monoxide or carbon dioxide for that matter. Do you have outdoor air coming into your kitchen? I guess I'm just a worry wart but it does concern me.

There is no problem with carbon monoxide with a gas range, so long as there is available oxygen, you will get complete combustion and no CO. If there is enough oxygen for you to breath, there is probably enough for your range, and houses are designed to allow air infiltration - if they were too tightly sealed we would suffocate from our consumption of O from breathing and our exhaling of CO2. The danger of carbon monoxide usually occurs where the flame is tucked deep into an appliance, like a water heater or gas hvac heater, and the areas that are supposed to allow movement of air get obstructed. If it does not get enough oxygen, CO is a byproduct of that incomplete combustion, as well as soot. CO2 is a byproduct of normal combustion, as is water vapor, and venting for most gas appliances, like water heaters, is designed to carry those out of the house. Again, the amount of CO2 from complete combustion from your range won't present problems so long as you house allows enough air exchanges with outside air.

We are now leaning toward a Capital, not DCS. The question is what to do about the vent? I would love to have a 27" deep vent hood but DH and kids want a microwave and we can only fit it OTR. They say the range is mine so they should get the microwave. The window in the kitchen only opens 3" because it's 68" high and we're on the 42nd floor. If it gets smoky we open the terrace door in the living room. However, the alarm is really sensitive and regularly goes off even without any smoke so I know I should get a good vent, even if it is recirculating because that's mandated by the building. I'm now thinking of getting a Precision instead of the Culinarian to minimize flames a tad to get the OTR microwave and keep family peace. Thoughts?

Go back 6 posts and read Trevor's comments about that.

Do not get an OTR over any high powered gas range (that includes the Precision as well as the CC). While a recirculating metal hood won't cause a problem, an OTR has plastic and is much more susceptible to the heat than a metal hood. Also, it will be even more inadequate because of it's small capture area.

Find another place for a MW. GE Spacemaker II can be mounted under a cabinet for example.

also while a regular hood is usually mounted 30" above the cooktop, an OTR is generally mounted a lot lower (18-20") so you can access the MW. This makes it even more susceptible to the heat.

I agree with the others that I would not put an OTR micro over a nice range being discussed in this topic. The very noisy wimpy fans are not suitable for it, and it will greatly reduce the cooking area above the stove.

The American Range looks very nice. I'm going to investigate further.

Do not get the Precision. Go with the CC. or another open burner design- they are well worth it. The Precision burner caps are too large and all the flame goes sideways and up the sides of the pan.

Do not get an OTR micro. Better to get a dedicated recirculating hood, some are better than others- you want capture area-the grease will cool and stick to it-instead of your walls and curtains, cleanable metal baffles and a charcoal filter for odors. Even Vent-A-Hood makes a "duct free" hood.

OTR have to be set low, people spill liquids when reaching up to retrieve their micro-waved coffee. They are expensive and hard to repair. It is much better to have a stand alone microwave.

Trevor is right, it is the food and how you cook it that determines your need for ventilation. Usually it's just steam (water). If you grill fatty meats or pan fry in oil, you may burn the fats of course and have smoke.

There are better smoke detectors for kitchen areas- some are photoelectric and some are ionization types. I have used a Bluestar open burner range with no hood at all and usually broiled burgers or steaks in the oven instead of on the stove top.

Get the Culinarian (or Bluestar). Get the best quality recirculating hood with the largest capture area. You will be much happier. Put the microwave in the Pantry closet. Or buy a small one for the counter-top. Just my opinion of course.

Here is a link that might be useful: kitchen smoke detector report

We bought a Sharp microwave drawer so we could have a "zero footprint" microwave. So far it's been great. Maybe that could work for you as well.

As others have said, if all you do is boil water then go with induction. If you want to enjoy the kind of cooking you can do with a powerful burner (searing meats, wok cooking, etc.) then a vent hood is key.

-Stooxie