I did a search and it comes up, but only to 88 replies...I think it was up to 112

Even though it comes up on a search, if you click on it to see it, you get a message claiming it can't be found.

Well that's too bad. I hope that Morelmuse updates us on her situation.

I haven't been on the forum for long enough to know what happened. So, what happened? It's too bad it's gone. I was considering cancelling my cable.

There was no Capital thread. Move along now. Nothing to see here.

Cue the Twilight Zone intro....!

I wonder if Capital...got to someone!

So.........how much did google cache and do we have to link to it whenever someone asks who's who?

GW will often remove inflammatory posts, but I've never seen them simply yank a whole thread. That one did have some stuff in it that was informative and didn't involve outing industry shills.

This is just too crazy. First someone comes on with complaints regarding their experience and they are accused of having some sort of ulterior motive. Before you know it another poster is being accused of being some sort of shill for the manufacturer. I did not get the pleasure of reading the last of the posts so I don't know how far it went. I just find it too bad that threads that can be helpful to all become hijacked. The annonymous nature of the internet can really bring out some interesting things in people. Some of it seems to get kinda petty. I come here to read and learn. It is up to me to research beyond what I am told here and make my own informed decisions and live with them. Personally I don't care if someone is from some company and wants to defend their company or product. I would not be surprised to learn that there are several of those people lurking in internet forums. Ultimately each individual should be left to use their judgement regarding the validity of each poster and their views. In this case I am just sorry that I may have played some small role. On the bright side I am pleased that the original poster seems to have gotten a solution to her complaints.

Okay, I must admit... the conspiracy theories might not be so wrong after all!

As one of the people who helped bring the "shill" issue to the fore, I take issue with labeling it petty. Jab: the later posts that you may have missed included the one from the CEO of Capital in which he, among other things, denied that he is Nietzche. That was followed by some fairly solid proof (leaving at most a 0.3% chance of being wrong) that the CEO was, in fact, Nietzche. Now, ordinarily, I would agree that outing "shills" is not what this forum is about. Here, however, it appears almost certain that the CEO of a company often discussed on this forum used a pseudonym to make fairly vicious attacks on someone who complained about his product. It also appears that he then lied about it and about some other things. All of that strikes me as educational and of public interest.

I may be proven wrong, but I would suspect that the thread was taken down because some of the posts supplied personal information and thereby may have run afoul of the rules. Obviously, the posts by Capital also seem pretty clearly in violation.

If that is the case, it's understandable, but also a bit of a shame because a good deal of useful information was lost -- and that includes both the substantive discussion of the original poster's problem and the revelations about the apparent ethical shortcomings of Capital's management.

If, on the other hand, Capital did request that the thread be removed, "Capital Rich" must have ignored my advice about what to do when you find yourself in a hole. Nothing ever really disappears from the Internet, and a small transgression can take on much greater dimensions when followed by a heavy-handed cover up.

Given that Capital is probably banned from posting on this site, may I recommend an open letter of apology on the Capital web site?

lol...

It did leave a little of a bad taste in my mouth. It's one thing to have "anonymous" recs. for a product, but it's another to deny (a) your involvement with a co. and (b)multiple log-in names.

That said, if it ends up that Capital is the right range for us I wouldn't NOT get it because of that thread.

That's a shame soshh, it really is a nice range. I kind of understand what you're saying, but it seems that Rich really does believe in his product. (Also clear that this forum has some serious candidates for the FBI!)

No Coleen, I said I wouldn't NOT get it...meaning the thread WOULD NOT STOP ME from getting it. I guess the double negative made that difficult to understand.

Anonymous message boards have a way of shifting personalities. I like all the information but don't take the negativity personally.

So sorry, sossh - perhaps I have not had enough caffeine yet and am still asleep!

Coleen: as I read soshh's post, he's saying this would not dissuade him from getting a Capital (the double negative threw me too). To be perfectly honest, I'm inclined to agree with both of you on that. For me, when I was deciding on a range in February/March, my suspicions were a strike against Capital. Still, if it had been maybe $1500 cheaper, had been available locally for me to see, and been definitely ready on time for my new kitchen, I probably would have a Capital now.

Espnola, SOSHH=SHE, but that's ok. The double negative was written to emphasize the point, but I guess it didn't work!

I saved the thread -- for what I'm not sure -- when I saw that it was being pulled, although the last several posts didn't come through.
Threads do get pulled occasionally -- for example, the Dacor and G-d thread from 2 weeks ago can only be found cached on Google.
Most often a thread gets pulled because it has become too contentious/controversial.

Capitalrich/nietzche has almost certainly been banned, but by using the magic of Gardenweb reincarnation, he could reappear under a new name.
A natural consequence of the banned poster's actions will be that any new poster who sings the praises of Capital will now be viewed with suspicion by many.

As a participant in the pulled thread, I want to express my views on the propriety of industry people participating on these forums. Such participation, IMHO, is extremely useful. I've seen here and on other forums I visit many examples where problems were resolved as a direct result of industry participation. There is, however, one important caveat. All persons posting who are affiliated with a manufacturer, distributor or seller of goods or a service provider that users of these forums purchase or utilize should be required to disclose their affiliation so that we consumers of such goods and services can accurately weigh their statements. I'm not sure if the forum rules already require that disclosure, but if not, the rules should be amended to provide for it. Thanks for listening.

SOSHH: sorry for the mistake on both gender and the double negative. For what it's worth, I thought the emphasis worked once I figured it out.

Reposado: I think the issue here for GardenWeb is that they do not run this site purely as a public service. They are in the business of selling advertising. If companies can essentially advertise by making posts (even with full disclosure), it reduces the value of the adds that GW is in the business of selling. I can't really fault GW for wanting to protect that source of revenue, particularly given that it allows us to get the benefits of this forum without paying for the service.

It IS great when folks from the industry get involved here. And disclosure (as well as refraining from criticizing competing products) should go without saying.

But c'mon...think of it from Capital's point of view: how would it have looked if nietzche said, "Hi, Morelmuse. I work for Capital and as a company representative, I think you're full of (*^%."? It would have made them look bad.

And know what? If that's the way Capital treats their customers--anonymously slamming them on the web when they dare complain--why the heck would *I* want to BE one?

I think there are rules for businesses posting at GW and they are reasonable. Say who you are, don't link to your web page, don't advertise. But the sneaky bastages are gonna be sneaky regardless of the rules. And that's why it's better for the little guys (us) that posts like the one in question are NOT yanked.

Seriously, who benefited form that thread being pulled? Capital and...um...Capital. Who gets hurt? US. We the little guy range shoppers! Thanks, Gardenweb, for siding with the bad guy. That kinda sucks. O well. It's free.

If MM's post had been met with "Gee, I work for Capital and I'm sorry you fell through the cracks. We'll be right on it!" wouldn't everyone be happier?

Can someone please let me know what the evidence is that Nietzche and Capitalrich are one in the same. Or that Nietzche is employed by Capital. The only thing I was able to see was that their profiles showed the same birthdate of course there were at least 5 other posters in the same thread that also share a birthday so I don't consider that definitive evidence. The only other thing was the misspelling of Nietzche by both posters. I don't see where that is going since if I am posting in regards to another poster I would more than likely use the spelling they used in their name whether I felt it was correct or not. I admit that I missed the last of the thread and therefore may have missed the real evidence that is being discussed so my curiousity is peaked. I am not claiming they are not but simply seeking the facts.

The five other posters who "share a birthday" probably share January 1, right? That just means they chose not to enter a birthday. Not the same situation at all.

Honestly, I'd say the birthdays, the virtually identical writing styles, the contents of the posts, and the highly implausible statements in the "Capitalrich" post are enough for me to risk a (frivolous) defamation suit by saying I am convinced they are the same. Someone else dug a little deeper and I think that may have had something to do with the thread being pulled, so I'd prefer not to repeat what he found. That said, it was pretty much additional evidence along the same lines -- no new smoking guns, just more smoke from the same ones.

In defense of Capital/Nietzche/Rich - whoever - morelmuse's experience with Capital ran contrary to all other posters on this form's experience (and my own GC) with Capital and their customer service. I'm not saying it's morelmuse's fault or anything, but there may be more to the story than we all know. (Again, the old saying - ther's his side, her side and the truth).

Absolutely, Coleen.

I guess it's the hiding behind the guise of an uninterested party to belittle the complaints of a customer that I find unsavory.

And even if Nietzche is unaffiliated Capital, and I'm not saying he is although it is certainly suspicious, his attacks on Morelmuse were terribly rude and really below the standards of the average GW user. As a group, we are better than that. We are all opinionated and biased, but we usually manage to be so without being offensive.

You have to be pretty rotten to get these easy-going GWers to go through the trouble of outing you!

Coleen, I truly hope you enjoy your range. Try to separate the fact that you own one -- and nobody, as far as I am aware, says it's a lousy product -- from the deceptive posts by the company CEO using a pseudonym. I reread the thread in question -- maybe that's why I saved it -- as well as some other posts by him. There is no doubt in my mind that the CEO used gardenweb to promote his product.

That's the worst part! It's a good product so the deception was just uncalled for.

They're pretty, too.

Yes, you are right - I think I am having trouble separating the two - I feel a little embarrassed to be a customer of someone who would do such a thing, but nevertheless, I still love the range.

I don't know if I am the only one (it feels like it though) that bought the Capital Precision sight unseen. I did it based on the information gleaned from this forum. Our kitchen remodel was slated to start in 2005. Due to unfortunate/sad personal circumstances, we were not able to demo until January 2007. I had initially planned on buying a Wolf, but since the prices rose dramatically (in my mind) since 2005/2006, I decided to go with the GE Monogram DF. That is when the Capital threads started to pop up. I cannot remember who started those and doing a search is not bringing too much up from the latter part of 2006 in that vein. In any event, I was very tempted by promises Capital made and the new/different features that it offered over the Wolf/Viking style range.

This whole scene has made me sad for Capital. I think the range is wonderful. Granted, I have not had a chance to fully utilize it as I have not tested the grill (as I have no hood) and have not used the rotisserie (fear LOL?). I know that I would not hesitate to post here should anything be wrong because it *is* a new product. I also think we should find out how Capital will handle problems in the future which is why I am very curious as to what happens in Morelmuse's case.

Bottom line is that it would be sad if anyone tried to sabotage Capital, but equally depressing if Capital went to the lengths suggested here.

Ellen613 - How are you saving these? Is it possible to send it out to us? There was good info in there despite the contentious nature of the posting.

Hey wait a minute - people didn't like it when Morelmuse was criticized as possibly being a troll (and I admit I was guilty of that), and now everyone is so quick to attack Rich of Capital as possibly being a mole posting under another name - maybe he did, maybe he didn't - I honestly don't know and I also don't care. The issue is the quality of the product and the service provided, period.

Suzanne, when I want to save a thread I go to
file>save page as>
and I rename it with a NameICanUnderstand.html . It saves the html and a bunch of related little files (graphics and such I guess) that I can then open up from my browser. I'm not web-savvy enough to know whether the file would open properly on a different computer -- maybe someone reading knows and can tell me?

But I can also use the print function to save the webpage as a pdf. The pdf file should open on any computer.

I now have the page in question in both formats. E-mail me and I can send it to you as an attachment.

You can also do a Google search and click on "cache". Google doesn't catch everything because they can only scan and save the entire internet every so often, but it can be quite useful (or annoying, as politicians are beginning to learn).

If there was a possibility that industry people were pretending to be consumers on this board, that does make ordering an appliance sight-unseen based on reviews here to be a tad...uh...scarier!

Looking forwards to reading Julier's report on the ROTISSERIE! I'm sure it's going to be a great range. Like I said before, this whole episode was probably brought on by Capital employees (and "fans") with kidney stones. They make people grouchy. That explains MM's poor service as well as any crabby replies here. I'm sure once they pass, everything will be peachy.

I can't help but be curious about WHO complained to GW about that post and managed to get the entire thing removed. I can understand removing the entire Dacor-God post. The entire post was on topic and if one part of it was unacceptable then all of it was, but MM's post was a product complaint AND a possible resolution (she was starting to get help from Capital). If some of the stuff inside the post was inappropriate, it should have been selectively excised as we often see on GW.

Shame on Garden Web. Must we constantly be reminded how much we pay for this site?? :0

I'm totally with Weissman here. Why go from jumping to conclusions about one person to jumping to conclusions about someone else? The 'evidence' is less than concrete. If the range and service are good, isn't that what will matter if we buy and use it? The rest of this is just guessing, and may be unnecessarily/unfairly detrimental to all concerned.

Weissmaan: Some people care about the ethics of the companies they buy from. I'm not saying that everyone must care about that, but some people do and the issue was certainly relevant to them. Besides, even if you do care about only product and service, I would think that you might consider launching attacks on a customer who complains to be sub-par service. Also relevant to the issue of service is that, if I remember correctly, Morelmuse's problem was not addressed until after we had unmasked "Nietzche." In other words, fixing the problem seemed to be Plan B after Plan A (trying to discredit the complaining customer) failed.

As far as people not liking it when some posters challenged Morelmuse, it's a good point. People shouldn't be so quick to jump on a new poster when they don't like the criticism that she's making. That's a lot different, however, from stepping in when you see an industry shill leading the attack. Don't you think?

Just to be clear on this last point, we did not suspect Nietzche of being associated with Capital based on a single post and I didn't call him out until long after I suspected. As it turns out, I and others were almost certainly right.

Well, to get this thread back to the Capital RANGE I pledge that, for the sake of information to all on the GW, when (and if at this point) the propane company hooks up my range, I'm gonna rotisserie me a chicken! And I'll let you all know how it goes!

Thank you Coleen - you first!

"Must we constantly be reminded how much we pay for this site?? :0"

Last I looked, the website is free to users and owned by a corporate giant. It's their ball, they make the rules. We pay nothing.

Julier, if yours is up first, you have to do it!

Or a suckling pig.

Fairegold, it makes me sad you didn't understand my comment. :(

I, for one, have come to enjoy fori's sense of humor - keep it coming!

Well put weissman
Fori you also seem to be keeping things in perspective.

I miss nietzche though, where are you? Did they really ban him or are you just laying low.

I still think the product is a good one. And although we are not hearing any more from morelmouse it would seem the company did resolve her issues. Was it the result of anything posted here? Who knows. Of course we would probably like to think that our ramblings are that powerful. So what the heck if it makes you feel good.

Y'all have renewed my faith in appliance-using humanity.

Reminds me of stuffing the ballot box

Hello Everyone
I was surprised that the telling of my story would end in the yanking of the thread. But, I was pretty glued to the thread there for a couple of days. I am glad to find that there is a follow-up thread.
So, updates. I have not heard from Capital to tell me they are sending the new wok cover yet. I will post as soon as I do. Until this is taken care of, my issues are not resolved.
I bought some wenol metal polish paste on the internet after reading how to remedy scorch marks on a gardenweb thread. All the burners have scorched the wok cover sides and the two back burners have scorched the back of the stove also. I tried to use it, but thought it was just too toxic after reading the directions and using a small bit on the stove. I would really like to clean the marks, but a green scrubby sponge scratches the stainless steel and so does bon ami. Capital sent me some scrubbies and told me to clean going in the direction of the metal grain. I guess the new scratches you make somewhat match the grain of the metal? Any suggestions of how to remove the scorches with a somewhat natural cleaner? Also, for the record, we bought this stove new. It was NOT a floor model or demo that we know of. I bought it from The Plumbery in Auburn, CA and it was shipped to us from somewhere in LA. I bought it because of the gardenweb info and also based on an appliance news website that rated it very highly based on seeing it at a convention. I cannot remember the name of that website, sorry. The self-cleaning and wok feature sold me. I did make porcini lamb chops this last weekend with the convection and was happy with how they turned out. And, I do love the wok burner. The roller racks are nice in the oven, but have gotten stuck or off-track about 50% of the time I use them. When they work, they really move beautifully. I have photos I just took of the wok cover, but I cannot figure out how to attach them below. Oh well, I will try later. The wok cover is actually bending away from the 4 burner sides. The wok cover is essentially not straight angles, but curves inward beside the burners. This is in addition to the wok cover warping when the burners are on. Something new to share. I will be really happy with a newly designed cover.
If anyone knows a good non-toxic way to clean a stainless steel stove without excessive scratching, please tell!

"If anyone knows a good non-toxic way to clean a stainless steel stove without excessive scratching, please tell!"

Occasionally, one has to resort to chemicals...

Here is a link that might be useful: Wenol MSDS - where's the toxins?!

Thanks for the update morelmuse. Did they tell you when to expect the newly designed wok cover? You might have mentioned that in the other thread, but I don't remember.

I don't have any scratch marks from cleaning the top, but I have somehow scratched my grill cover (but not from cleaning). I would love to get rid of those scratches too.

I asked if I should call if I had not heard in about three weeks and John from capital said it won't take that long, and that he would call me before it ships. I think it has been 1 1/2 weeks now.