jenmenke, We recently got a Miele Optima too (model 2432 -> the 2430 had just been replaced so we got upgraded to this one while our order was in process). When our 4 year old Kenmore DW died ($400 to fix!) :( That is the second Kenmore appliance (the other was a 15 year old refrigerator) that has gone out while we were in the preliminary planning (gathering ideas) phase for our kitchen remodel. We replaced that with a GE profile French door with bottom freezer that we really like. Having spent a lot of time on this forum, I knew I wanted to get a Miele. Im hoping we get a lot more than 4 years out of it. The first few loads we ran also seemed to not get as clean as the Kenmore. Some of it was loading issues. The Kenmore had a very symmetric tine layout while the MieleÂs is wildly asymmetric. Also many of the tines are very close together (so they can claim a 14 place setting capacity I guess). I find it works better to use every other one for bowls and large plates or there is too much overlap. The large insert along the left hand side that is supposed to hold plates didnÂt work very well for us. It didnÂt hold our plates securely and it had a lot of bumps that made it less than ideal for pots and pans. If you remove it, then the underlying grid has huge holes in it that might be great for a large pot, but you canÂt put anything small over there or it will fall through. I ended up buying the "large diameter plate insert" (GTLU 35 Â 06220270). I took out the large insert and moved the one with the fold down tines to the left side of the bottom tray in its place (it locks in over there). For some reason, the large diameter plate insert didnÂt lock securely in the tray, so ended up tie wrapping it. I use that for our large plates and it works great. The tines are far enough apart to allow the water to get in between them. We use Bright Green Automatic Dishwasher Powder Detergent (Dye and Fragrance Free). DW wanted to get away from using phosphorous detergent so she bought this. I was skeptical, but it works great if you use the right amount. Our detergent bowl has three levels (lower, 20, & 30) and there is also the pre-wash cup next to it. I started out using just enough detergent to fill lower level with a little in the pre-wash cup (about 1/3 full) but the dishes werenÂt getting clean. I went up the 20 line and filled the pre-wash cup about 3/4 full and it cleaning great now. We have naturally soft water (I think it is 1-2 grains) so we donÂt have to use salt. We use Jet Dry liquid rinse agent on the default setting. I havenÂt noticed any etching. The plastic containers donÂt get as dry at the end of the cycle as the Kenmore, but that had a fan that blew directly into the tub (and hot moist air into the room) instead of along the outside of the tub like the Miele. Conclusion: It took a while to figure out how to best load it (IÂm very rigorous in following a pattern and DW is more haphazard which doesnÂt yield as good results), but IÂm happy with the Miele after putting in the large diameter plate insert and I figuring out how much detergent to use. I always use Normal Wash setting. I usually load the dishwasher in the evening and set it up to run 4 hours later after midnight (it never wakes us up). I use rinse once in a while if IÂm not going to run a load of dirty dishes until the next day. One more thing, I rinse my dishes like always. IÂve never found a dishwasher that is fully loaded that will completely clean dishes that arenÂt at least somewhat rinsed. I try not to rinse them completely to save water, but I use some water. For Pyrex baking dishes, we often soak them overnight (with soap) or else the corners donÂt get clean. I rinse the soap out before putting them in the dishwasher. Ken___

I had a large 120 count of Cascade Action Packs, so those don't let you measure the amount of detergent used, as each pack is the same amount. I guess you could open them up and use less that way, but it would be a bit messy. I've only got two of them left, so will be going by the Miele store this week to buy their detergent tabs. There are 60 in a box, but each Miele tab has a line in the middle, so you can break it in half to use (which would give 120 loads). The person at the store gave us a couple tabs a while back to try out, and we only used half in the Normal and Pots/Pans cycle, and they worked fine. So to answer your question..... When I used the Express Wash with or without the Turbo mode, I also used the pre-measured Cascade Action Packs. When the Turbo mode was off, everything was clean. With the Turbo Mode On, it lowered the total time from 20 min to 15 min, but there was some bubbly detergent left the bottom of the unit. I think this is because there might have been too much to begin with for such a short cycle, as the Cascade packs are all the same size, and that the short wash and rinse cycle didn't have enough time to rinse all the detergent away. But when using the Normal and Pots/Pans cycle with or without the Turbo, it is fine when using the Cascade packs, as there is enough time for it to wash and rinse away at the end. Just to add, I've noticed that over the 3 months using the Diamante with the Cascade packs, that a few of my 10-year-old steak knives are starting to wear down around the three rivets on the center (the rivets look like they are breaking apart on the sides), and that my very old cast iron skillet looks like there are now a few rust spots on it. I'm not sure if this is because of the Cascade detergent being too harsh, or because I use the Pots/Pans cycle most of the time since we do a lot of cooking. Once I get the Miele detergent tabs, I'm going to just try the Normal and China/Crystal cycles to see if that cleans my cookware as good.

What a problem. Lots of opinions and suggestions here but no solution. No mention of contacting dishwasher manufacturers who must surely know about this issue. I contacted Neff in the UK for advice who suggested using a dishwasher cleaner every 30 cycles (every two weeks in or house of two people). Tried that in addition to my 15 min prewash in cold waterand soda crystals, often also with a squirt of bleach, followed by the 1 hr wash at 65C using Fairy Platinum plus (most expensive detergent ever?). Still some odour on wineglasses out of the cupboard next day. What I'm now doing is rinsing the wineglasses just at the end of the wash cycle under the boiling water tap. This works. Would love to hear a proper technical explanation ( and solution) from a scientist at a dishwashr manufacturer, but I won't be holdong my breath.

We have an Optima, delivered and installed in the spring of '07 (newer/updated models came out in the past year or so I believe). It does not have the door-opening feature. Re: drying/water droplets; coffee mugs/cups or bowls, or anything with an indentation on the bottom, placed with that indentation facing straight up, will have some water sitting in that indentation when you empty the DW. The water pools in that indent and usually won't completely evaporate. This happened in my old KA's w/heated dry as well. Now, if you place the cups in a row/section where they can sit at a slight angle, you are less likely to find water pooled in that indent. In my preferred loading "layout" (which optimizes the am't of stuff I can fit), the mugs sit flat. I grab a towel when I'm unloading coffee mugs, and dry the bottoms (which are facing up) before or while unloading. Some mugs have flatter bottoms, so less, if any water is pooled in those mugs at the end of a wash cycle. As for plastics, I really can't say if they are any wetter than they were after a run through my old heated dry DW's (because I don't remember!). If they are, the trade-off is worth it to me. I really like having the flexibility to place plastic items anywhere I choose; top rack-middle rack-or bottom (especially for the larger plastic containers, which take up a lot of space). Again, I either wipe with a towel while unloading, or give a quick shake over the sink (which is right next to the DW). HTH!