I have a SZ now and really don't think it has been worth the expense compared to very nice, but less expensive, brands. We've had a number of problems with the ice maker and freezer unit. The warranty, however, is good.

On the other hand, my mother has had her SZ, a built in refrigerator only model with wood overlay, for 46 years! (since 1965!). It still looks brand new and timeless. She has had to have the motor replaced a couple of times over the years, the last time within the last 3-4 years, and somehow the reps were able to obtain the parts. So her answer to the question would be "yes, SZ is worth the expense."

I don't harbor any ill will toward anyone not bothered by dumping and extra $8K on a trophy fridge.

My point is simply that unlike other appliances (ranges, for instance) I don't believe you get much bang for your buck. Maybe your food will last marginally longer, maybe not. Whereas a high quality range can make a tremendous difference in cooking results you are able to achieve. Another kitchen-related example is quality knives. They provide a distinct functional advantage over cheap steel.

I understand Gary's point about variable compressors, etc. but my feeling is that it's only of marginal benefit. My refrigerators, without that functionality, meet all of my needs.

Refrigerators are just...well...refrigerators. They all work and most will run trouble-free for 10 years with no trouble. In fact, i've owned several refrigerators from cheap, to mid-range and none have been retired due to failure. Some were better than others at preserving food w/o cold spots/warm spots...but overall they have all served their purpose well.

I believe clever storage design is the most distinguishing factor between refrigerators.

you may also want to consider the Gaggeneau. We are right now considering the Sub zero 36 inch built in vs gaggeneau french door, The GG looks so much better on the outside and the inside - stainless interior.

In that price range I would check out Miele has well. Stunning quality. Just the hinges are worth the price of entry!

{{gwi:1433201}}

Miele was about 10% higher than the SZ when I got my quote. In that price range we were talking another $700-800.

Well, I don't have one but I've had two "common" fridges (still have one) and if I could find one that actually kept things the proper temperature, I'd pay through the nose and consider it equal to a nice car. I am tired of my veggies freezing just to keep the other stuff a normal temperature. If y'all are saying that a SZ keeps stuff the right temperature, I am there. If the shelves on the door don't fall off when I overload them (the previous, more expensive fridge, which I had them haul away and replace with the current crummy fridge), then I am there. If I can find one to fit my plebian fridge hole, I want one.

Air filters. Hm... Don't know how the ones in the SZ work. Don't even know how the ones in my Miele work. Forgot how stinky the cheese was when I bought it. Even well sealed up, this cheese in an ordinary fridge makes the room smell like something crawled underneath and died. No stink came out of my Miele this week. Just smelled awful when I opened it. Couldn't stand it any longer today and made it into a sauce with rigatoni. Really yummy. Next time I opened the fridge the smell was gone. :) Love those air filters. ;)

Are those air filters really that much better than a box of baking soda? Not being sarcastic, but I've never had a fridge with the air filters before so I have no basis for comparison.

Bishop, I don't know the answer. The air filters in the SZ are specifically supposed to remove the ethylene gas that produce gives off. I don't know what the air filters in the Miele are supposed to do, though it might be the same. They're in the drawers.

I used to keep a box of baking soda in my old, bad fridge. It was worthless against stinky cheese. I've opened friends' newer fridges after the stinky cheese was gone and still smelled it, but don't know if they use baking soda. My Miele fridge never stinks, even when I've forgotten to cook the eggplant and it's turned into green fuzzy soup--exception being this one, well wrapped, piece of cheese. Then only the inside of the fridge smelled bad, not the whole kitchen as per usual. :)

It's possible that baking soda and one of the newer, better freestanding fridges would be adequate to get all the stink out. I've just never seen it go away so fast!

One issue I haven't seen discussed is the difficulty in opening the SZ frig. We just spent a week in a rental condo with SZ frig/freezer, and because of the tight seal it makes it took a lot of muscle to open each door. Felt like I was going to dislocate my shoulder at times! Even my muscular son found it awkward. Also, the ice maker only made 8 cubes every 2 hrs, not enough to keep up with our family's needs. My 15 year old KA SxS keeps lettuce crisp for a long time, never any smells in frig, lots of organized storage in freezer. Just my 2 cents worth.

As has been previously discussed in a thread not very long ago, the only time the Sub is difficult to open is when the compressor first kicks in. This is especially true when you just closed the fridge and it starts its fast cool cycle. The rest of the time the Sub is not a problem to open, as my not particularly muscular wife will attest.

The ice maker has a "max ice" setting that speeds the ice making and will fill the bucket very quickly. At the normal ice cube setting, it is very slow.

As geo pointed out the difficulty with opening the door of the Sub Zero is only momentary - and it happens right after you've opened and closed the door -it creates a tight seal that helps keep the food cold. If you wait a few seconds it equalizes and then you can open it readily. If you can't wait that long then simply grasp it at the top or bottom of the door handle where it's easier to open.

My Sub Zero is much older and doesn't have a speed setting on the ice maker but it makes more than enough ice for our family of 5.

I'm not defensive about owning a Sub Zero. We installed it in 1987 when it was the only option for a counter depth, 36" all frig and 36" all freezer. I have a GE SxS at our vacation home and GE replaced it after 4 years due to frequent food spoilage. It took me nearly 6 months and hours on the phone to get GE to replace the unit - and we had an extended warranty. We had to buy another frig to keep in the basement for our food until GE finally replaced the SxS. I had no idea it would take that long.

Sub Zero has always been wonderfully responsive to my calls with questions or repairs.

The problem we had opening the SZ was not momentary--it was difficult even after not opening for hours. We've stayed at several different units in the complex, and had the same problem in every one; the units are only 6 years old. Perhaps it is the difference in SZ model #. Ice maker had no option for faster ice (I read the manual desperately trying to get more ice! finally bought a bag at the local store). Probably was a rather basic SZ, but I'm sure it didn't come cheap.

I wonder if some of Repac's experience might be explained by climate? Since it's a pressure problem? I'm also wondering if that could be adjusted if it were your own...

Plllog, good point--it was hot and humid there, although they had the AC turned down to 67 when we got in! We kept it at a cool and comfortable 72, not too humid. Perhaps there should be some adjustment for this?

Made me worry as we search for a new frig, as I never would have known about this from the non-working display models at the appliance dealer.

And lest you think I'm just a wimp, I'm actually quite strong from regular workouts with weights. Even my muscle monster son didn't want to open the frig! And our daughter, who has some treatment-induced weakness, was unable to open the frig at all. She was happiest of all to return to our old KA!!

Wow - repac- that's a new one for me and it would be a royal pain. My own son ripped the handle off my Sub Zero when he gave it a really hard yank. Again their customer service came through and sent me two new handles - one to replace the broken one on the freezer and another one so that I could change the one on the frig so that they would match.

Wow. SZ's are known for having a stiff seal, but as Maire_Cate said, usually they're not a problem after the pressure equalizes. I know people with physical limitations who have SZ and don't have problems. It does take a tug, but nothing untoward. I wonder why they were so bad where Repac was?

If one googles Sub Zero Fridge door, You can see that quite a few folks have problem with the SZ doors, Check Consumer Affairs too.

$43.52 for a light bulb for the Fridge?

So you not only gonna pay thru the (I'll be nice) when ya buy the thing, but ya best have a pretty hefty bank account to keep the thing going (and lit) in the upcoming years.

Anyway checks the URL below maybe "Some" will be able to comprehend "Why CR rates them soooo low for reliability"---cause they break, see for yourself.

Gary

Here is a link that might be useful: SZ Door and other problems

I am also considering the various options for refrigerators, and this discussion is very helpful. Recently I've discovered that I can get two Liebherr 24" frig/freezer units for much less than the 48" SZ I was considering, and this would work so much better with my kitchen space. However, I don't know where I can go in Atlanta to actually see and touch one. Does anyone know? I've read positive and negative comments about the Liebherr, so not sure what I'll do, but I am worried about the service (or lack thereof). Thanks!

vawatson, just make sure that, width-wise, you can fit all the dishes you want into the 24" Liebherr. While total width is the same, I think in the 48" fridges, you typically get 30" in fridge, 18" in freezer.

Happylamom--this one is from an unhappyNYmom. I'm on this forum looking for info on REPLACING my sub-zero. In my estimation, Sub-zero is like Volvo--they used to be great. I bought my 650 12 years ago and have service calls yearly for the 6. The estimate for the latest problem is $1,500. For that I can buy a new fridge--and it's the same problem that it had last year. Losing Freon. My young daughter is so tired of hearing me complain about it, she's urging me to buy a new one. Because of the leaks, the temp fluctuates wildly. Before that, the door hinges kept breaking. And the icemaker has snapped off at least twice. My big problem now is finding a new one that fits the old built-in space. The depth and width are fine, but every replacement so far leaves a 14 inch gap at the top. Don't do it

I'll throw in my two cents: I'm replacing an 80s era SubZero 550 series because the freezer conked out. The upper fridge, btw, is still working fine. But I was told, when the ice-maker died a few months ago, not to bother repairing it because it was 'the beginning of the end.' At 30 or so years old, I wasn't complaining (the fridge's age, not mine).

I was told, because I already had the cut-out for a built-in, to replace it with a SZ, even if breathtakingly expensive, because it is truly one of the few labels that has some resale value, and we are downsizing out of our big house in the next few years.

Okay. Started researching. Thought I wanted a SxS because that bottom freezer is like a laundry basket, you have to rummage (I keep mostly nuts on the slide out shelf; I'm a big baker). Then I read that a bottom freezer is more eco-friendly: when you open a SxS, cold air escapes along the entire length; when you open a bottom drawer freezer, cold air doesn't rise (i.e. escape). So I changed to a 36" bottom freezer.

Went back to the appliance store to look at built-ins: the GE Monogram has incredibly funky drawer operation, the Miele (no less expensive than the SZ) has a door that weighs a ton (it's damn good lookin' tho), my salesman didn't recommend the Liebherr.

Bottom line? I'm sticking with the SubZero. They look good, they get great reviews, I can sell my house with 'top of the line appliances,' and I'm just going to close my eyes when I sign the sales bill.

Good luck!

We have 8 bottom freezer SubZeros at work. As far as I know, none have needed repair in the 10 years since they were new.

Nice stuff.

My wife wants a full depth, and not side-by-side (she presently has a 48" Mongram side-by-side), so I'm getting off cheaper in my remodel. I'm doing 30" countertops so that the fridge will still be "counter depth".

I have had my SZ for 14 months and it is leaking at the bottom of the refrig side. I called and the only authorized dealer is booked solid for 3 days so can not come out. That must mean the SZ and wolfe which is all they work on are breaking down a lot. It has me concerned that they are that busy and irrated that I have to put a towel down and let it leak for 3 days. It is a built in and too heavy for me to pull out and unplug. urrr I think for $10,000 I would not risk buying a SZ. I have a high end home but I do not think it would affect the price I get when I go to sell. I had a KA in my last house which was a high end house. Buyer never asked about my brand of refrig. I think the older models of anything can not be compared with the ones of today.

Waiting 3 days for repair isn't an indication that Sub Zeros are breaking down right and left. Authorized repair technicians work on many different brands of appliances. They are not merely Sub Zero technicians. The company I use are authorized repair for most of the major brands.

Expecting authorized repair centers to have people sitting around waiting for the phone to ring is unrealistic. And, as maire pointed out, these centers are authorized for many brands. Yes, it's irritating for a new product to give you problems right off the bat and, yes, having to wait makes it even worse. Hopefully, it's an easy fix.

If it's leaking water, it might very well be the water connection and if it's reachable you might consider turning that valve off until the repairman gets there.

Molly - you don't have to pull your Sub Zero away from the wall to unplug it to turn it off - you can turn it off using the control knob inside the refrigerator. Or if you have a dedicated line you can flip the circuit breaker. Actually you can flip the breaker even if it's not dedicated as long as there's nothing else on the circuit that you need.

Had a 42" side by side SZ for over 20 years.Served us well, with a few repair issues. Now remodelling a new house and thought "no way am I spending over $10k on a fridge".... Well, after much research, compromised and am getting a 36" SZ all fridge and a separate freezer (TBD) to go in the butler's pantry.
I considered - Miele,Thermador, Kitchenaid, Liebherr, Viking, GE, etc. The Liebherr seemed to be a good replacement - but the 36" French door was very expensive and the Liebherrs 24" columns - I did not like the flimsy plastic drawers in the freezer at all! The Miele was actually more expensive that the SZ but really nice, the Themador Towers were the biggest contenders for me. Really liked their configuration and feel - but by the time I would have bought both the fridge and freezer, I was back up to the Subzero price - soooo, ended up deciding on the Subzero 36"fridge in the kitchen for daily use (really liked the space and feel of it! so bit the bullet, got it under $5,000.
BTW - I did not like the space my 42" SZ gave me all those years. The freezer was so dinky that we had to get a second full freezer for our meats;the fridge was adequate but wished it were bigger. Really depends on the size of your family and how much storage you require. Bottom freezers are supposed to be much more energy efficient than the side by sides, so are all frige/freezers - so I would more look at the columns or all refrigerator/freezers rather than the one 48" unit. Thermador make a 30" fridge and 18" freezer that are really nice. Hope this helps!

Quote from Dodge59: "Back in 2006 SZ [Sub-Zero] was rated "Dead Last" for reliabilty back then, and they have since crawed a couple notches up from the bottom."

I have Consumer Reports' refrigerator ratings on my screen right now. There is no reliability section on built-ins. The ratings "give the most weight to energy efficiency and temperature performance, and then to noise and ease of use." The Jenn-Air was at 80 points and the first Sub-Zero (42")was at 76 points and the second SZ (36") was at 71 points. Temperature control on the 36" was "excellent" and noise and energy efficiency were "good." It was rated low on the scale because "This model offers only mediocre energy efficiency, was only fair at making ice, and is somewhat noisy. It also lacks pullout shelves in the main space." That says nothing to me about reliability and seems pretty subjective.

Out of nine user reviews for the 36" on the CR site, there were five 5-star ratings, two 4-star, one 3-star and one 1-star. I can't find anything to indicate that Consumer Reports based their 71-point rating on anything more than these nine reviews. Could that be? I don't think Consumer Reports was very credible here.

Hilltop55...I think u have it right...I got a new subscription to CR because we are building a new custom home. At the appliance high end, I don't think CR serves any value. In fact, the $29 I just spent is a waste of money given what I am looking for. My two cents.

Well, "almost right", anyway, and it's my fault.
I had explained, numerous times, in other posts about
"The reliability Rating", so I thought was not necessary to
do so again.

The numbers I used were reviews from those folks about their actual experiences with various fridges,
(in 2005-2006) and NOT some number "rating" assigned by CR, as like many folks here, I'm not all that sure CR's overall rating,is that much help, alto it "may" indicate "Trends",

Using the "CR Over all Rating", You will see that SZ has managed to work their way up---so draw your own conclusions.

I have read post from "GW folks","Espousing the fact"
that JD Powers now has WOLF-SZ ranked as #1 in Customer Satisfaction---Therefore that "Must be the truth" as JD, concurs with some of our "Preconceived Notions" as to what is "BEST"????

In the end I think it all comes down to this:

Do you want to
"Kewl your Neighbors, friends, family and your wallet"

or

Do you want to
"Cool Your Food"

??????

Gary

I have a SZ and I haven't had a problem with it that wasn't easily remedied at home. The performance of the fridge is great and it absolutely does keep my fresh veggies and fruits WAY longer than my old fridge.

Sure it's expensive, but they also have great customer service (24/7 USA based) and the build quality is very impressive. One of the main reasons I went with SZ was because some of my friends have ones that were installed 15-20 years ago and they still run great.

It really comes down to what you're comfortable spending your money on in the long run. Good luck.

Dodge

How much is a JennAir light bulb?

List prices on service parts are always high, from all manufacturers. Those bulbs are not made by SZ so I'm sure you could get one for 10 off the Internet. My oldest unit is about 15 years old and still has the orig. bulbs, so I wouldn't base an $8k fridge purchase on the cost of a light bulb any more than I would how much it costs me in electricity each year. I might consider it as a tipping point against another unit that meets my criteria otherwise. But, let's face it, people buying 8-10 grand fridges aren't that concerned about an extra 50 dollars a year in electricity.

I had a SZ (bottom fridge 36") for 8 years before redoing my kitchen over the summer. It was very solid and it performed very well and had a certain cache. When it came to picking a new fridge, a french door config is what i wanted because of the kids (hard to open that one door + clearance is so much better with FD). And i got one with gallon holders (bosch builtin similar to thermador freedom). I think it is almost half the price of the new FD SZ (5K vs 9K) that was just introduced. I would have seriously considered that model had it been available but i am quite happy with my bosch. it has 2 compressors and the food is kept as good or better than the SZ. freezer is bigger.

Is it s good refrigerator? Yes! Is it worth it? Not to me! I think we are in the area of subjectivity and therefore, it will be based on personal preference.

Is it s good refrigerator? Yes! Is it worth it? Not to me! I think we are in the area of subjectivity and therefore, it will be based on personal preference.

We had a SZ in the past 2 houses and will put one in our new build. I definitely see the difference in keeping the food fresher for longer periods of time. It's worth it to us. Tami

Our SZ 680 is now 10+ years old. Built really solid. It really was better than anything on the market at the time. We originally used it 'free standing' with steel panels on the sides. About four years ago we reconstructed our house and built it in to the new cabinets.

Ours has had a few problems. Perhaps the most serious was replacing the compressor just a few months ago. Fortunately, a lot of it was still covered by warranty. The fridge side door is on its third door seal. And I had a minor issue with the ice maker - also a few months ago (and was when the tech discovered that the freon level was low in the compressor system. Apparently they can't just 'top off' the coolant levels any more...)

SZ got a bad reliability rep shortly after the 680/690 series was replaced by the 685/695 series. There was an issue with the ice makers and a bunch of them needed to be replaced. So the CR reports from a few years ago might reflect this. SZ dutifully replaced the affected ice makers, and that was the end of it.

I will say that every time I have called SZ for advice or help, they have been *extremely* helpful. On a scale of 1 to 10, they rate '11'. They know how to take care of their customers.

If there is an Archilles Heel, it would be the ice maker. An expensive option. And DO NOT use fragile glassware with it. The ice drops down hard enough that it can, and has, chipped glasses. I typically put a little water in the glass first in order to dampen the impact a bit. Not sure if new ones are still the same way, but it is a problem with the 680.

Would I purchase it again today? Probably, as I live in an area where homes are expected to have fairly high end appliances. And we really do USE our kitchen - so everything earns its place. But I would do some due diligence to see what other manufacturers have.

All the above said, we also supplement the SZ with a 24 cu ft GE Profile 'garage fridge'. Bought it from the stores scratch 'n dent aisle about 7-8 years ago for around $1k. It has also performed very well. Has never had a service call. Keeps things cold, but has no where near the temperature control that the SZ has. (You have to be careful which shelves you place things on, since some are colder than others...) Nonetheless, it has turned out to be good value for what we use it for.

My mother in law has one and seems to like it a lot. I can't attest to its ability to keep food fresher for longer. I personally wouldn't pay that type of money. I'm going with a Fridgidare full freezer and full fridge combo. I end up with two compressors like a SZ and a MUCH larger fridge. 64" total width and close to 40 cubic ft of capacity for $3,000.

The whole "is it worth it" question is a subjective one though. If it's worth it to you then that's all that matters. My mother in law had to have a Wolf range strictly because of the red knobs. The $14,000 price tag was "worth it" to her.

I have been debating this issue. I need a 36" bottom freezer built in fridge. I have looked at the KitchenAid, The Liebherr, the GE Monogram and the SZ. Price wise, the best I had seen was around $5500 for the KA, $6,700 for the Liebherr, $5,900 for the GE and $8,299 for the SZ. Only the Liebherr and SZ were dual compressor. The GE had dual evaporators. I was torn. I preferred the features of the SZ, i.e the dual compressors, the odor handling and the self closing vegetable drawers along with the highly controlled humidity a well as temperature and the Liebherr second. I have a KA French door bottom freezer in my house now and this is for my new home I am having built. The KA has been excellent except that things in certain places will nearly freeze and vegetables don't stay as fresh for as long as I would like with just two of us so I wind up throwing out a lot of food. Further, I have learned I don't like the French door style. It is a pain to have to open both doors so often and you will far more often than you think. I thought it would be a rare occurrence but it seems that what you want is never on the side you open first or you need something from the bottom trays that requires both doors to be open. I'll just go for opening one door when I need to...

Well today, I was out shopping various appliance stores and walked into the last one asking what they might have as a good deal on a dual compressor 36" built in with bottom freezer. The salesman says we have just the unit for you. They had a SZ 36" bottom freezer BI36U/S/PH-RH marked down to $5,999. I bought it! What do the rest of you think. Did I do the right thing?

I'm looking at SZ 48 inch side by side vs. thermador columns vs Miele columns.
I'm very sure that I want to spend the money on one of these fridges and all the bids we are getting show the prices to be about the same, give or take 1K.

My question is aside from the aesthetics of the interior (thermador and Miele both much nicer), what advantage is SZ over the others. I am getting dual compressors in each of those brands since i would be doing columns.

Is the air filter that worth it in SZ? Do the Thermador and Miele have air filters?
The Miele rep didn't tell me about drawer filters but she said the produce stays very fresh in the bins because they are temp/humidity controlled. She didn't give me much detail on that.

Thanks!

I am a new SZ owner - 736 all fridge - and I am also sold. I cannot believe how fresh it keeps produce! We are huge produce buyers and eaters but there are times things go unnoticed or uneaten. For example, we had just moved in and I bought a large box of artisan lettuce. Washed it and put it in the fridge. Forgot about it. Went on vacation 5 days later for a week. Came home - lettuce was perfect. Yes it was 8.00 worth of lettuce in a 7k fridge - I get the irony:) I was very happy to come home from the beach and have a yummy salad though :). Love my SZ (and all my appliances, whether KA, Wolf, Electrolux, etc.) . . . Reading this forum is very helpful and it was because of them I made good decisions!

Point well taken about the cheaper appliances also. We did an all fridge in the kitchen plus fridge/freezer drawers and a huge Frigidare freezer in the laundry room (steps from the kitchen). It has worked well for us!

Does the air filtration system make that big of a difference in terms of odor control?

My SZ 532 of 22 yrs. just died after 2 attempts to replace the freezer compressor. The fridge works fine. I've have had only one issue, a clogged line in the refrigerator. I've replaced 1 set of gaskets but that's it!
I paid $3200 back then but a replacement it will cost nearly $9000 so I'm considering my options. If I was 22 younger, I would not consider any other brand but I'm about to retire and not likely to realize another 22 years of service.
With annual maintenance you may be lucky and get 15-20 years service. If you can afford it- it's definitely a good investment.

Sub-Zero, from the outside, appears to have great build quality. Then you open the thing up, and you see that they too have cut corners. May be made in the USA, but the compressors sure aren't! Sub-Zeros fail just like any other fridge. People's anecdotes about their 30 year old Sub-Zero don't help people considering one today at all.

Don't get me wrong. I am not trying to say that they are a bad fridge. I think they are one of the best, if not the best on the market. They've cut corners, but not nearly as many as some others. I personally would never spend the money for one but I could totally understand how someone else would. However, it appears that some here have been drawn in by their marketing. You are not getting some sort of perfect, indestructible tank when you buy a Sub-Zero. What you are getting is better build quality than the rest, which may or may not lead to a longer life without service, and you're getting MUCH better support than the rest. You're also getting the name recognition, etc. Only the individual can decide whether or not those things are worth it to them.

As for preserving food longer than the average fridge, yeah yeah. Stuff will last longer than average. But that's not due to anything unique Sub-Zero does. 2 compressors are hard to find, but contrary to what some people seem to think, you only need 2 EVAPORATORS to get those results, not 2 compressors. Many fridges a fraction of SZ's cost have 2 evaporators. And if you really want the redundancy of 2 compressors in case one fails, there are other ways besides Sub-Zero to get them, such as fridge/freezer columns.

Sub-Zero is great but people should see them for what they are, not as some magic box.

This post was edited by hvtech42 on Mon, Jul 7, 14 at 0:49

hvtech42 - I'm looking at refrigerators now and agree with you. My situation is my almost 20 year old KA side by side is still working fine (has some very minor cosmetic issues). But I'm replacing my kitchen floor. So - if I ever want to replace the KA before it dies - now's the time to do it.

When I look at the build quality of refrigerators (at least the stuff I can see and handle - drawers - shelves and the like) - the current SZs seem to have the build quality of my old KA. The new KAs are a lot worse. Some models of some brands like Samsung and LG seem to have better build quality than KA. So I am confused at this point.

Also - when I got price quotes - the cheapest SZ quote was $7400 for a 36" side by side. Is that reasonable? I find it kind of maddening that getting price quotes on these things is like pulling teeth. Nothing on line or over the phone. I don't have problems getting price quotes on $75k cars or $1000/night hotel rooms. I think the notion that if you have to ask what something costs you can't afford it is ridiculous. Most people who wind up having money to spend didn't get there by being cost-oblivious.

I live in a somewhat higher end house - but don't give a hoot about resale. I'm in my late 60's - and figure my next stop is a nursing home.or grave.

My primary concern is build quality that leads directly to reliability. In the end - a refrigerator isn't a design statement. It's a utility stream. I have never had a refrigerator fail. Not even the low end harvest gold one in my first condo. That I gave to my late mother in the mid-1970's when I remodeled my kitchen (it was still humming when that house was sold in 2005). Or the super cheap ($175) bare bones absolute bottom of the line 20 year old one from Montgomery Ward that we use in our garage to store things like beer and water. Have needed some repairs on ice makers over the decades - but that seems to be par for the course with any brand. Refrigerators that fail seems to be a new phenomenon in recent years. Is my perception wrong?

Finally - when I moved where I live now (almost 20 years ago) - there was no outfit that serviced high end appliances in terms of warranty work. Now there is. And it's the same outfit that will do the warranty work not only on your $10k SZ - but someone else's $800 Whirlpool. First come - first served. This alone would give me pause about a SZ (the repair outfit in question isn't the worst in town - but it's far from the best either - the best today IMO doesn't do any warranty work at all now). It's kind of like paying for concierge medical care - and having to wait a long time in waiting rooms to see doctors who are also seeing lots of Medicaid patients. Perhaps this sounds snobby. But - if I paid such a large amount of money for an appliance - I would expect not only a superior product - but superior service as well on the hopefully few and far between occasions when I needed it. Robyn

Robyn - The prices are on the subzero site. $7400 sounds really low for a 36" built in SxS. Without a stainless front (the way I read it) it's about $8000 and with stainless it's over 9. AFAIK the prices are the prices for SZ, unless you're doing a package of SZ/Wolf (and now Asko).

With your last paragraph, maybe check out Miele's fridges. If you're in an area where they install and service, I think they do their own.

Here is a link that might be useful: 36

"the best today IMO doesn't do any warranty work at all now"

That makes a lot of sense. Manufacturers pretty much pay slave wages for warranty work, so if you're good enough that you have a large happy customer base, you would do better tapping into that full time.

"Some models of some brands like Samsung and LG seem to have better build quality than KA"

Don't get drawn in by the facade. Everything I've owned by those brands has been a disappointment. They seem to put a lot of effort into the parts of the appliance that you see and touch - giving the illusion you're getting quality. But the insides - full of cheap components. They are also new and unproven in the built-in refrigeration arena. KitchenAid may not feel as solid but I would take them over those two Korean brands any day. Plus - unlike Sub-Zero, Samsung, and LG, KitchenAid's parent company Whirlpool is much easier to repair and tech friendly. Their parts are available for anyone to order, so it isn't locked down to authorized repairpeople, and provided a repair company can show them some dough each year, they will give them access to the super-secret website with all the service manuals even if they aren't an authorized servicer. Their parts also tend to be cheaper than the proprietary brands - though that's not to say they're cheap!

"Refrigerators that fail seems to be a new phenomenon in recent years. Is my perception wrong?"

I've bought many refrigerators in recent years which were very basic for various rental properties I own, as well as one for myself that is very fancy, and none have failed (dishwashers I haven't been so lucky). There is certainly more to go wrong with newer fridges - but I also think people tend to be very vocal if their fridge dies because it is the hardest appliance to go without, and there is usually food loss involved when it breaks. Plus the internet makes it easier than ever for people to express their discontent.

"Also - when I got price quotes - the cheapest SZ quote was $7400 for a 36" side by side. Is that reasonable? I find it kind of maddening that getting price quotes on these things is like pulling teeth. Nothing on line or over the phone. I don't have problems getting price quotes on $75k cars or $1000/night hotel rooms. I think the notion that if you have to ask what something costs you can't afford it is ridiculous. Most people who wind up having money to spend didn't get there by being cost-oblivious."

I can't really answer that question since I've never shopped for a Sub-Zero, and, as you pointed out, they like to keep their prices secret. But, based on hearsay from people who have, that sounds about right to me.

Thanks for these responses. I've decided against SZ. Not only because of the initial cost - but because I'd also need a fair amount of difficult/expensive cabinet work done. BTW - the price I was quoted was for "panel ready" (without panels).

Ruled out the other premium brands for various reasons after seeing them in showrooms. WRT the Liebherrs in particular - the "columns" look nice in magazines. But - at least in terms of the ones I saw in the showroom - they are *super* tall. I'm short - and those top shelves would be useless/dangerous for me to use (I'd have to reach too high). Also - I thought the drawers were kind of crummy.

BTW - was out looking yesterday. And I was impressed by the Whirlpool WRX988SI. Really liked the organizing capabilities (I'm a big "a place for everything and everything in its place" person). And the way the drawers worked (the glides).

The only downside for most some people IMO is the 3 freezer drawer arrangement probably won't allow for freezing big things (like a turkey). But I have a second unit out in the garage to take care of those infrequent storage needs. Anyway - liked it enough to proceed to stage 2 (actually taking some things to the store that are usually in my refrigerator - and seeing how they fit). On my part - it will probably stick out a bit more from my enclosure than my current unit does. And the handles won't match my wall ovens. Nothing worth killing myself over ;). Robyn

I have the sub zero freezer drawers and they are a tad loud for the monies..