No lousy stinking cutlery tray in my bottom of the line Inspira (model G2142U).

First off, Miele has a new line of dishwashers called "Futura" this is about to come out in the next few weeks. So you might want to wait and see how those are.

But for the current models, all of the ones with "SC" on the end have the cutlery tray at the top. The only one that does not is the Inspira G2141 (there is also a G2141SC with the cutlery tray).

I had mixed feelings about it too, but after I got the Diamante G2143SC last year and used it a few times, I love the cutlery tray. It really doesn't take any longer to put items in there or take them out, then it would to use a regular standard cutlery basket on the lower rack. Also, since each item in the cutlery rack is separated some, they all come out clean. As opposed to throwing everything in a cutlery basket, where some items with dried-on food may not get clean.

Here's the link

Here is a link that might be useful: Miele Inspira G2141

I felt the same way about the cutlery tray of the miele and was told you could order a basket instead. There is no way I will go back to basket. I really only takes a little longer to load the silverware, but much easier to sort silverware thus making it faster than a basket. The silverware come out cleaner and with no spots. I also have a F&P tall dish drawer that I actually removed the basket because it's no comparison to the miele tray!
As a side note, I also have three kids.

The top cutlery tray is the best part of the Miele! It means that the utensils aren't jammed together so they are cleaned better, won't scratch each other, and are easy to see when you unload them. Also, no worries about grazing your wrist across a standing knife like you would with the traditional basket. It also means more room for your dishes, since there's no basket to take up room. You can remove the cutlery tray out of the DW to unload it if your cutlery drawer is far from the DW. Really, I bet that once you have a Miele cutlery tray, you will never want to go back to the basket.

One caveat - I have seen the Kitchenaid DWs with their version of the cutlery tray. Compared to the Mieles' beautifully designed cutlery tray, the KA tray is clunky. But the Miele tray is something I will never do without in any future kitchen I have.

I meant to add to my previous post about your comment about "putting each knife in a slot". OMG you don't have to do that with the Miele cutlery tray! I just sorta scatter all the utensils across the tray. I have teenagers and the last thing they would do is carefully place utensils in slots! As I mentioned, the tray is actually better than the basket if you have kids putting things in the DW. No knives sticking up the way they do in a basket, no jammed-in forks cause the kids shoved in the forks, and the tray is faster and easier to unload cause everything is visible and un-tangled.

Once I'd decided which section of the tray would be designated for which items (teaspoons here, dinner forks there...), it became automatic to place dirty utensils in their "assigned" location when loading the DW. No extra time to do so IMO. Sometimes I'll rearrange, or slide stuff forward or back a few rows in order to accommodate serving pieces or odds and ends. Unloading is much easier and quicker since I can just grab a handful of clean X Y or Z and plop each handful en masse in the appropriate slot in our silverware drawer.

It helps that it is just DH and me (and 90% of the time he leaves DW loading/unloading to me, but in his defense, he also hand-washes 90% of the stuff not destined for the DW). Prior to getting our Miele, I picked the brains of a friend who owned/s one. She had told me that her DH gave their kids a "tutorial" on how to load the tray--said it helped.

I would buy another Miele in a heartbeat, BTW. :-)

The simple answer to your question is that Miele makes some with & some without. If the model has SC in it that means "Seperate Cutlery" tray. Another hint into the world of Miele is the VI which stands for Integrated. If the model numbers has VI then it needs a kitchen panel & handle. The classic most popular dishwasher is the G2183SCVI which has both in the model number.

To figure out which one has a cutlery tray & which one doesnt AJ Madison has very good filters on their site. Cutlery Tray - Yes or No.
I want you to know 2 more things. Kitchenaid also makes a 3rd cutlery tray now. Also since most people only want it for long sharp knives, Asko make a special half rack for knives. I would never sit & line up my forks, knives spoons etc. Again AJ Madison will give you that in one search. They have 34 dishwashers across 10 brands with the cutlery tray. It is no longer a Miele Exclusive. Im gonna attach a link.

Here is a link that might be useful: Dishwashers with Seperate Cutlery tray

The Kitchenaids that have the cutlery drawer include the standard silverware basket in the lower rack. So you can remove one or use both. I've seen cutlery drawers loaded with forks, spoons, knives, sippie cup lids, baby bottle nipples, chop sticks, skewers, cake decorating tips, and all sorts of odd small items. So some people find the drawer very useful. It can be adjusted for extra depth for large sized utensils as well.

Others take the whole thing out to gain upper rack headroom and use the regular basket in the lower rack.

Miele's new Futura dishwashers come with a performance/quitness money back guarantee.

Don't like it? Return it.

Here is a link that might be useful: Miele Futura Press Release

I believe the 90-day return has been around for a while:

Here is a link that might be useful: 90-Day Quiet and Cleaning Money Back Guarantee

I don't think "I don't like the cutlery tray" falls under either noise or performance.

I never thought to just scatter the flatware. Looking at mine, doing so in a single layer would roughly double the amount of space needed. But if it works for you... Either way, if you are anal about it like me and section out areas for big forks, little forks, big spoons, little spoons and knives then it could add a minute or so to the loading. Putting them in slots unsorted would add a few seconds. To me that extra minute is worth it for the unload. Either pay on the front end or the back end I guess.

Anyway everyone is entitled to their opinion, and in this case I don't think it matters if they're a professional chef and cookbook writer or if they're the queen of take-out. I don't think I've seen to many (any?) owners of DWs with cutlery tray complain about the trays, and I certainly love mine.

I don't think "I don't like the cutlery tray" falls under either noise or performance.

Does it matter?

Buy it. You don't like the cutlery tray? Return it and say it is too noisy for you. You don't have to give an affidavit under oath.

I suppose you could get away with that. Of course then you're eating the cost of having it installed by an authorized Miele service. And any shims other custom work unless you're sure your fall-back is another Euro model. And plumbing, if you hooked up to cold and the replacement calls for hot.

Seems easier, cheaper and more ethical (for those of us care about that) to make a decision ahead of time if you think you'll be happy with the tray and be prepared to live with the decision.

You are eating the cost of installation only if you return it.

Of course if you know 100% ahead of time you will return it is stupid to buy in the first place. But....

My guess is the OP will like the Miele very much. Just afraid of new tech.Afraid of change. Most people are just like that. That is what "try it,if you don't like it, we will refund your money back" warranties are for.

If not you get something for the cost of installation.

You tried the DW that JD Powers says is best for performance and customer satisfaction but that is not the best for you.

Second,it is a good idea to make a 24" cut out even if you plan to buy a Miele and never get anything else. In the future Miele and/or Asko can switch to standard American sizes in America, you may need a new DW at some point in the future and not wanting to spend Miele money or some future owner may want the standard DW cutout.

I guess the idea of trying to me the most "ethical" when it comes to warranty terms when most corporations are trying to screw you with the fine print at every turn is for some people. Not for me.

Thanks for all the input. The only reason I mentioned my professional chef friend's opinion is that she has cooked on everything, used every fridge and loaded every dishwasher when cleaning up after herself in test kitchens, tv spots, etc. She is NOT a fan of the cutlery tray but it seems like lots of other people are!

I also think it comes down to your lifestyle and habits. I might be more apt to like it if I was not trying to get out the door by 7:15 with three little kids in tow and leaving the kitchen clean!

The cutlery tray is much faster than trying to cram the stuff into those old cutlery baskets.

Like shannonplus2 said, just toss the stuff up on that tray, it doesn't have to be neatly arranged, I haven'd done so in the 5 years I've had my optima.

It's faster putting them away, cause with the tray you can see all, the spoons or the forks or whatever, and just grab them, with the old basket, ya just grabbed a handfull of silverware, then ya have to sort it out, ya know, spoons in this drawer divider, forks in another and occasionaly ya grabs a steak nife that goes in a completely different drawer, for me that basket was a PITA,
and the only reason I bought the Miele was cause of the tray, back in 2005-2006, it was the only DW with the cutlery tray, and I never heard of Miele before that, It was still more expensive than other DW's even back then, but to me, the tray was worth it!!!

Gary

Athensmomof3 - I am still not getting why you think the cutlery tray would make it more difficult to get out the door by 7:15, etc. My life is hectic too. I find the cutlery tray makes unloading the DW easier and faster, not to mention the cutlery is cleaner cause it's not jammed together. Have you had to re-clean a knife or fork cause there was gunk still stuck on it from being in the basket? How is that making your life easier?

I have been on this forum for many years, and your friend is the first one I've heard say that the cutlery tray makes things take longer. Usually people don't buy Miele's cause they're so much more expensive than other DW's, not because of the cutlery tray. In any case, why don't you go to a store with Miele DWs on display and decide for yourself?

I have the 2142SC...and I LOVE that cutlery tray. Every piece gets clean, every time, and there's all kinds of room for lids off cups/jars and larger utensils. The absence of the large cutlery basket also leaves a lot of room in the lower baskets for larger things. Others have taken one look at my washer and said, "no way would I do that, too fussy", but believe it or not, once you get in the habit of tossing the cutlery into slots, it doesn't take any more time than the old basket method, and you don't have to bend over to reach it, either. Unloading is a breeze. Even my two teens will put the silverware in the slots. If I had to go back to a basket, I'd be seriously annoyed, now that I'm used to the cutlery tray. :-) I guess everyone has their own preference, and that's why they make 'em both ways!

Cj

And I HATE the cutlery tray. It is not so much the tray I dislike (I actually find unloading it is time-saving) . I am annoyed with the vertical space it uses up.
It limits how big of items you can place on the lower two trays. It is like having an overall dishwasher compartment 2 or 3" shorter than normal. I am finding I can't fit the same size items (large bowls, trays) that I used to fit into our Bosch.

AthensMomof3 - I'm impressed that you care enough to leave the kitchen clean and get out the door by 7:15! Hats off to you.

I do not yet have a DW with the cultery tray but when I saw one, I got really excited b/c I was thinking it would be perfect for sippy cup tops (and maybe valves) and straws and kid-related paraphenelia. But I also did have the thought "are you kidding me - I have to load each piece of silverware in the slot?" and the sales guy was like, goodness no, you could just throw them all in. Even thrown in and scattered about, I bet they would get more clean then in the basket.

Good luck. I'm curious - where are you getting your appliances? And did you decide on an ice-maker? I am Atlanta too (although I know you are in Athens) so I was just wondering.

I've had the cutlery tray now for about a week, with a new Futura Dimension, and am pretty happy with it.

With a basket, I had to take some care to put different-shaped stuff in each compartment so the spoons wouldn't all spoon together etc. So the tray is about the same loading time, and so far, with the capacious bottom and middle trays, it feels like I have more vertical space than with my old GE.

As others have noted, the tray is removable.

I got a REAL job that gave me a huge salary boost in 2000. A present I gave myself was a high end DW to replace a loud worthless one. The saleperson tried to talk to me into getting a Miele at the time. I had NEVER heard of Miele. I looked at the cutlery tray and ran as fast I could.
I bought an Asko instead. Then my Asko died in 2010. (I should have listened to the salesperson...)

I replaced it with a Bosch. I hated that the brand new Bosch did not clean as well as the 10 year old Asko that it replaced. I replaced the Bosch with a Miele in less than 6 month. (i had the chance...)

Yes, there is less vertical space in the Miele. However, this has not been an issue with my set of dishes. I raise the upper rack to the highest position. I can fit all smaller bowls, cups, glasses etc into the upper rack at the high position without any problems. I can fit all regular sized dinner dishes on the lower rack. Some larger platters do not fit in the Miele. If this is a deal breaker for you, then you should take your platters and see if they fit in the Miele/Bosch at the showroom.

DW loading is very dependent on the things that you own.
With the things I own, Bosch held about 15 to 20% less items than the either the Asko or the Miele. I used it long enough to know that it was not the learning curve issue....

When I first bought the Asko, I realized that the deeper cereal/rice bowls did not fit into the European DW as well as the American DW that it replaced. I replaced my deep cereal bowls with the rimmed shallow soup bowls.

The shallower soup bowls can be put in between every tine and still come out clean. The deeper bowls have to skip a tine or two. So you can see how the number of bowls that you can fit into the rack is reduced quickly with the deeper cereal bowl type. This is hard to explain with words. sorry.

If your family eats out of deeper bowls (they look like small mixing bowls), then take multiple of those and see how they fit into the DW. Euro dishes do not handle these well, IMHO. OTOH, you can put way more plates and rimmed soup bowls into the Euro DWs than any American DWs.

PS: the reason Miele cutlery tray works so well is because there is a dedicated small spray arm above the cutlery tray.

I think you should reconsider your bias against the cutlery tray until you actually use one. You don't really have to "place" each knife. I take a handful of silverware and hold it above the tray and just gently "drop" a utensil at a time, and the utensil just finds its way into the slot. Additionally, I rarely have a whole handful of silverware at one time. It is usually a small handful at a time. Putting away the clean utensils is equally easy. You just grab them by their handles, no touching the clean eating end. I don't even sort them when I put them in. It is just as easy to sort when putting away. I love the cutlery tray!!!

"In the future Miele and/or Asko can switch to standard American sizes "

Sure, they "can" but they won't any more than Bosch will. There are plenty of choices at 60 cm of width, so it's not like you're stuck with Miele or Asko or even Bosch.

Re: the not liking the cutlery tray after the fact. You can simply remove it, plug the holes with the requsite parts and order yourself a basket for the bottom rack. Thisis the same thing the factory does if you order a non "SC" model.

No need to uninstall the unit and return it ect. Cost will be a wash for parts vs. lost $$$ on the return.

Athens, you may have already decided by now, but we just purchased the Futura Dimension G5505SC, and the cutlery tray has a portion that slides over (referred to as 3D), allowing taller items to be placed on the middle rack. That versatility did it for us. I doubt that we'll place every fork and spoon in its own slot, either, after the first load or two... BUT, the entry model doesn't have the tray.

How many pieces can the cutlery tray hold? We have 3 kids too and we use A LOT of silverware. They have cute little kids utensils and have to have a fork, spoon and knife at each meal, silly I know. Also, they have Camelbak water bottles which have sippie values and long thin straws... will those fall thru the tray?

We were all set on the Bosch, but after reading this board, I'm questioning it. We have to make a decision this week.

P.S. Do we have to adjust the cabinet dimensions if we go with the Miele vs. the Bosch?

A lot of people here on GW rave about Miele's dishwashers, as noted above. JD Powers has rated it at the top 2 years in a row. So why are the reviews on Amazon so bad?

Here is a link that might be useful: Amazon Review on Miele DW

Every company has lemons and a few turds working as CSR or techs.

Usually,most people that complain here it ends up being user error problems.

The ones on Amazaon state the DW just fell apart after a few years.It could be dissapointed customers exagerating or people had the horrible luck of getting a lemon and a really bad service tech. Who knows?

Sub-Zero has a great reputation and you can find reviews of people so angry at SZ they swear they will never buy another. Ditto for Wolf and every other appliance company.

My first made in the USA Whirlpool washer laster 20 years. My second made in Mexico Whirlpool washer lasted 4 years.

It could be I just got a bad one,but no more Whirlpool for me.LOL

Dont listen to the your professional chef friend! The cutlery tray is awesome. I have owned my Miele for 13 years and it was one of the many innovative features not found on other units of the time. Now, I cannot live without it. Ask yourself this: If the tray was not a good idea, then why are so many other manufacturers imitating it? Miele is in a class of its own. Just compare the door quality, how the racks glide so effortlessly... I wont mention a specific name, but it is better than that other leading German brand that starts with a B and ends with an H with an OSC in between. This is the BMW of Dishwashers... fast, innovative, and just gets the job done every time!

Love my cutlery tray! As others have said, it takes a few extra moments to load but less to remove from the DW

I can put 16 or more dinner plates, salad plates, dessert plates and flatware in the DW. Depending on the glasses or cups- 8-16+.

Bowls take up more room but I can still put quite a few in the DW but might lose a few small plates.

My first Miele had issues- most likely due to an incompetent repair company(they lost their Miele contract)

My new DW is over 5 years old and has been great!

I highly recommend the cutlery tray and the pop open door.

I posted on this thread in 2011, and fast forward to 2015 and I still LOVE my Miele, and I still love my cutlery tray. Everything gets clean, every time, and it's really easy to use. As someone else said, you just drop stuff in and it finds a slot--and unloading is so much easier. No touching the eating ends, just grab a handful of the handles and drop them into the cutlery drawer. I like that the racks adjust and that I can remove the plate rack if I want to do a load of big, bulky items. Wash quality is stellar and it's quiet--even though mine was near the bottom of the line for these machines. Even my husband comments that he really likes this machine--he does a lot of the unloading and very rarely notices that something isn't completely clean.

I just bought a Miele. Glad to hear you still like yours. This thread makes me wonder if I am going to be surprised by the width of it though, which I didn't notice in the store. Is it smaller than the American brands? I have pondered the silverware tray and know that I can always get a basket for some things, like the KitchenAid has. (Yes, Miele sells baskets and I am guessing that even the models with the trays can accept a basket if you want one.) I am tempted to get one, because I find that I use so many utensils for cooking and stirring and there are ones like hand mixers that seemed like they would be too big for the upper tray, but I am not at all sure about that. Mine isn't installed yet, so I will find out, but I look at it as I can get any manufacturers cutlery tray if it fits between the tines and there are some brands who have spacious flexible ones, which I was tempted by, but the quality of the dish washer won.

Mine was installed today and my favorite part is that it is so quiet. I rewashed all of the cutlery in the house, because I know that handwashing doesn't kill germs. I had so many knives, forks and spoons and so many spatulas and dish scrapers and mixing utensils that I used up the top and needed my old basket, which I had kept, because of this thread. It may only happen once, but I laughed that I kept it and needed it this one time.

Our Miele dishwasher has a cutlery basket. Is it feasible to purchase & install a cutlery tray on this model? G 4948?

Thank you.

There is the G4948U (basket, no cutlery tray) and G4948SCU (with cutlery tray).

The "SC" on any Miele dishwasher denotes the cutlery tray.

From what I've seen looking before in the showrooms, the ones without the tray lack the hook attachments on the sides built into the stainless stub for the cutlery tray glide arms.

If you don't see anything on the sides up near the top, then there's no way to install it.

Bought entry level 4228 U and purchased the cutlery tray separately... if model number has corresponding SCU it will have holes in the tub to mount a cutlery tray. Be warned Miele supplies cutlery tray without any installation instructions?? Take pictures at the dealer showroom ... not to difficult to figure out ... and no tools required. BTW when Miele is unboxed you will see it's like no other dishwasher ... it's completely boxed in ... not just sound installation around the tub .... and is it quiet!