Can you return the dishwasher? My daughter has a Bosch, and it works well. There is something wrong with yours. As for the powder Cascade, I don't think it has phosphates in it anymore.

If you really do mean TSP (trisodium phosphate), that's the WRONG additive. It generates a precipitate in hard water, which WILL leave a film behind.

The correct additive to replace missing phosphates is STPP (sodium tripolyphosphate). Slight difference in chemical name, large difference in chemical properties.

If you really do mean TSP (trisodium phosphate), that's the WRONG additive. It generates a precipitate in hard water, which WILL leave a film behind.

The correct additive to replace missing phosphates is STPP (sodium tripolyphosphate). Slight difference in chemical name, large difference in chemical properties.

Ditto.

Putting TSP in you DW is a funny.

before you ask for a return of your d/w call the 800 number on the detergent box and ask for their advice. You issue doesn't sound like a mechanical problem.
Dishwasher are pretty simple they are just water sprayers in a sealed box.

Since your issue is not food being left on the dishes that only leaves a chemical solution as the issue and that is where calling the detergent company will help.

For the last year and a half film being left on the dishes is our number one service request for dishwashers to our shop. All brands !!!

Change to an enzyme detergent, start off with cooler water which means don't run your hot water before starting the dishwasher because the enzymes work best between 110 - 130 then the bleaching agent kicks in at 130 and higher.

Don't pre-rinse your dishes because if the detergent doesn't have food to attack it will etch your dishes.

How did I find out this information? by calling the 800 number on my own detergent box when I first started seeing this issue with my customers machines that otherwise where mechanically perfect.

Thands for the feedback. I only used the TSP once so I'll make sure not to use it again.

It's funny you mention NOT running the hot water because the so called repairman told me to RUN the hot water before so the d/w starts off with hot water!!

I'll call FINISH and CASCADE now and see. I'll let you all know when I resolve this issue.

If I don't run my hot water, the unit will fill with cold water. Which in the winter is around 50f, summer around 70f. The last time I did that the machine quit with an error code indicating it could not heat up the water sufficiently.

NJAnnRose....Why did you start a new thread for this? Exactly the same topic, and you didn't respond even once to any suggestions received on the last one.

Did you run ANY of the tests recommended to you before on the other post? Did your repairman?

Seems to me everybody's pulling reasons for your trouble out of thin air.

If you've actually checked the machines operation...that is: fill-level; heat level; clear drain path; spray arms going around....please disregard. However, I'll bet you haven't. What you wrote doesn't sound like it.

As Jakvis said: DW's are pretty simple devices. If it's running right, it will clean your dishes without leaving residue regardless of phosphate, no-phosphate, liquid, powder, pretty much anything ... assuming the proper dose. If you have soft water, any of those paks or tabs you described will be a gross over-dose.

Are you sure the "white film" you've described is a deposit....that is, something you can wipe or wash off? Are you sure it isn't etching...which won't wipe or wash off?

Are you seeing your "white film" -- or any other deposits -- on your silverware?

I am not sure how to run the tests you are referring to. I did check the drain and filter which were clear. I expect the dishwasher repairperson to do the others. Since I have a senior tech here on Monday I will ask him.

The film can be removed when I wash it in warm water with vinegar and scrub. It does not seem to affect the dishes or the silverware.

Sorry about starting a new thread. I'm new here and didn't realize that's what should be done. I'll make sure to do so next time.

Jakvis....

".....start off with cooler water which means don't run your hot water before starting the dishwasher because the enzymes work best between 110 - 130 then the bleaching agent kicks in at 130 and higher."

This is just silly. Sentence internally contradictory so it doesn't really make sense anyway. Filling cold won't accomplish anything except to increase the cycle time. Did the 800-number detergent folks really tell you to do that?

Assuming you fill with hottest tap water you have available -- say 130F or so -- the mass of dishes in there with their large surface area will kick it down 30-40 degrees as soon as the spraying begins -- before the detergent ever leaves the compartment. In actual use, your machine will start out somewhere between 90-100F even having been filled with the hottest water your tap can deliver. The only thing accomplished by filling with cold water will be to increase the cycle time while the machine's heater brings the temperature back up. If it takes too long to do that, I may just stop and throw you an error code such as weedmeister described.

Any DW machine owner can verify the truth of this quickly and simply. Just open the door of the machine maybe thirty seconds after the spraying begins.

n j a r, you have a whole weekend to test things out in terms of soap / detergent and all that. Get to it.

Asolo, Not only was I told about starting with cooler water but I was also given the charts showing the activity curve of the enzymes and the curve of the bleaching agent. Since I was in the business they, the people at Finish, gave me access to the information.
Now the Bosch D/W that the poster has is one of the fastest heating dishwashers sold in the states. They heat water at a little better than 2 deg F per minute. If the water starts out at 110 F this means that the enzymes will be active for less than 10 minutes. The hotter the water the less time it will spend in the optimum temperature range. If the water started at 120F the enzymes will have less than 5 minutes.

The beach agent that removes stains like coffee, tea, etc kicks in around 130F and the effectiveness increases as the temperature continues to climb.

I know it's weird but as I've explained to my techs, we now have to change the thinking of what we, service techs, have been telling people for the last 50 years because the detergents have changed. It's the old adage of keep up, lead, or get out of the way. The technology has changed so we must also.

That's fascinating jakvis. Certainly supports cold water vs hot water hook ups when they're optional, especially with soft water.

Hey Jakvis...thanks for coming back. OK...understand better what you said this time.

Still don't quite get the starting out cold idea, though. I certainly don't see any machine at any location starting at 120 or even 110 because of the instant heat-loss from the incoming water as soon as the spraying starts. The only way I can see that is if the machine and it's contents get pre-heated.

Example: I have new Whirlpool which, in this way, is exactly like the 9-year-old version it replaced. Both machines fill, spray, drain, then refill before the detergent compartment opens. My tap-hot water at that sink runs about 120 - 125F and I run it hot before starting the machine. After first fill and spray the water inside the machine is about 90-95. After the second fill and spray -- detergent compartment opened, now -- I get 100-110 depending on the season and how much heat loss I get from the pipes. I still haven't figured out when the heat boost begins but I can tell you the element is not energized in the beginning. I've come back 1/2 hour later and felt the same tepid temperature. I suspect it boosts only at the end of the cycle and I suspect the dwell time is short. I know it does it eventually because I've checked it at the end of the wash cycle and in the rinse cycle.

I suspect you would know the sequence better than I. My point is, accepting the information you've given about enzymes and their active temps and periods, I still don't see a reason to worry about it -- at least not given the way my machine works. Seems to me the enzymes will have sufficient dwell time to do whatever they're supposed to.

I don't know what's going on with this OP's Bosch but I'm strongly suspecting something with the machine as opposed to products being used or even dosages -- although, from what was written I am also suspecting substantial over-dosing. For whatever reason, they seem disinterested in exploring themselves. Hopefully the service person coming Monday will put it to bed. I hope they come back and share the news.

To bring you up to date with my saga, I did as suggested and opened up the dw while it was spraying and the upper arm does seem to be working. I tested the hotest water from my sink and it's about 125.

Today the tech came and he called someone at the "top" who really didn't suggest anything I haven't tried before. I asked the tech to check the upper spray arms and he put a glass upside down in each corner. It ran for a couple of minutes and he opened it up. Yes, the glasses were full of water, so the spray does work, BUT the water was soapy and we hadn't added any soap. He concluded that maybe some of the d/w tabs got stuck somewhere and we're not getting a clean rinse.

His suggestion--put in two cups of CLR and run a heavy load cycle until it comes clear. So far I ran it three times. Next I'm going to run a reg cycle with nothin and see if it has cleared up. If this doesn't work I guess I'll have to hand wash my glasses because I'm out of ideas.

" don't know what's going on with this OP's Bosch but I'm strongly suspecting something with the machine as opposed to products being used or even dosages -- although, from what was written I am also suspecting substantial over-dosing. For whatever reason, they seem disinterested in exploring themselves. Hopefully the service person coming Monday will put it to bed. I hope they come back and share the news."

I have followed very closely every suggestion given to me by the Manufacturer as well as the directions on the packets. No one has suggested than I am overdosing, and I specifically asked Bosch about the quantity of soap I should use just in case. If I have not complied with all your "tests" it's because I'm not that familiar with the operation of a d/w, but I'm willing to learn if given basic instruction. At this point, on a brand new machine, I still feel it's up to the manufacturer or store to resolve the issue.

I'll let you all know if this works........

Another thought - do you have a high loop in your drain hose (or an air gap)? If not you could be getting backflow from your sink which could be causing your problems.

NJAnnRose, at risk of being labeled one of those who pull theories out of thin air, let me revisit a comment that you made in passing in an earlier post in this thread:

"I only used the TSP once so I'll make sure not to use it again."

Question: Are the glasses that have a white film the SAME glasses, always? Are they glasses that you washed the one time that you used TSP?

You may have etched the glass. That is, the film is not a film; it is what the surface of the glass has become.

Fortunately, it is easy to test. Take one of the glasses that has the "white film." Wash it by hand in a good dishwasher soap, scrubbing well with a soft cloth or a natural fiber brush, then rinse well and dry. Set it next to another of the "white film" glasses not washed this way. If you see no difference, then the problem is not a film problem, it is an etching problem, and the damage has been done. The etching is permanent.

"I tested the hotest water from my sink and it's about 125."

No. Wrong. Read the post above. Talking about inside the machine while it's running with a full load. The mass and surface area of the dishes will take tons of heat out of your incoming water. It will start the cycle barely warm after this heat loss. The DW has to bring that temp back up with it's own heating element. If it doesn't do that, you're going to get bad results. Undissolved detergent paks would be one symptom.

So....they sent out a tech....and this tech didn't check the water level? Didn't check the drain path? Didn't check the machine's heating element? Your post said about all he did was make sure your upper spray arm is going around...except the test you described would not tell him that. And he noticed soapy water so told you "Hey, there's soap in there." You've described a thoroughly worthless visit by an incompetent service person. Was this fellow sent from the place you bought it from?

"At this point, on a brand new machine, I still feel it's up to the manufacturer or store to resolve the issue."

On this we agree. Given your own situation and abilities and especially in light of this nincompoop "professional" they sent out to, allegedly, diagnose your machine I'd lay it out for the store right now -- first thing tomorrow morning. They make the machine work to spec or it goes back. Notwithstanding that I, personally, have little doubt your machine is easily and cheaply fixable -- assuming attention by a competent tech, which this fellow clearly was not -- no customer should have to put up with this state of affairs from a new machine. I agree this is the seller's burden. I'd go for that. You didn't buy this thing so you could learn about fixing DW's yourself.

A non-similar comparison, perhaps, but illustrates the point.

A few months ago I bought a new Whirlpool DW from local dealer. It worked fine except I thought it was too noisy. Dealer switched out for quieter model no charge except for difference in price of replacement machine.

This was done on the basis of my personal opinion only. Seems to me non-performance of the machine would put you in an inarguable position.