Can anyone comment on the miele masterchef functions. Are they really special or just gimmick?

For someone that has cooking "anxiety", it is a great feature and I have used it. That being said, it really depends on your abilities with an oven and if you would need it.

I wasn't aware the Miele was $600 more. Are you getting a "deal" on the Wolf?

I believe, all things being equal, error on the side of the Miele but $600 is no chump change.

"Are they really special or just gimmick"

Somewhere in btw. The programs can be useful if like price says you are prone to sit on the sidelines but wish to get in the game.

I wouldn't spend 600 on it either.

"Are they really special or just gimmick"

Somewhere in btw. The programs can be useful ...

and if you're a Type-A personality like self, its pointy-clicky aspect will have you tearing your hair out.

Have you seen the new Miele "Chef series" or something like that? I was at the Miele showroom a few months ago looking for something else entirely, saw these new ovens and really really liked 'em. Almost as good as their now defunct Novotronic ovens. Has an almost normal (I think) interface - multi-function knob and whatnot. Almost no gimmicks but, also, fewer features. I think it is cheaper, but not sure. I'd pay extra for the minimalist, pared down, Teutonic efficiency of this oven vs. the Masterchef/Navitronic nonsense.

So this is Miele vs. Miele only.

Mindstorm,

I have seen the Chef series also but I was less than impressed. Although the oven is the same, the knob was not of typical "Miele" ingenuity, quality and such. The settings function was also whacked, and the timer was useless from a notification standpoint. Interesting how it starts to count up after it counts down to zero.

I do consider it a better value though for anyone that would not use Masterchef.

Life is so much easier when comparing Miele with Miele

If I understand correctly. Wolf has a double fan. Miele does not. What about double fan? Is this important aspect in an oven. If you have a convection feature what difference does it make if you don't have a double fan?

There's more to it than the fan. In theory, double fans make the heat very even throughout.

Both have convection. But Miele has Eurostyle convection which means combination heat settings. F.ex. one starts with a cold oven and kick starts it with the broiling element until it goes just past the preheat temp. Then it settles down to preheat temp. This is automatic and equivalent to turning the oven down. Another setting uses top and bottom elements at the same time -- essentially cooking top and bottom at the same time. Some settings are convection; others conventional. My convection is very even throughout though I've read other reports.

There is a rotisserie which I didn't think I'd use at all and adore. The probe works superbly and counts down to the last 20 mins with perfect precision roasting. There are 2 proof/warm modes. The oven comes apart completely to clean. New models have extension racks. Broiler is ok; not extraordinary but there is a partial and full setting to adapt to quantities.

Wolf has a more conventional bake/broil with convection but no combi heats. But that eliminates the learning curve in terms of using them. Perhaps someone else can fill in on other features.

Both are known to be reliable and companies stand behind them.

Lately Miele has temp variation reports and there were several changeouts. Previously, Wolf had some condensation in doors and knocking but that hasn't been reported recently. At one point Wolf had chipping porcelain and hot control panels but again, not recently -- I believe that design has changed.

Both have good real estate value-- Wolf may be more prestigious of the two in some regions; Miele in others.

Antss or Weissman can confirm/correct on the Wolf and speak to other features.

I have seen the Chef series also but I was less than impressed. Although the oven is the same, the knob was not of typical "Miele" ingenuity, quality and such.

aprince,
I don't think the Navitronic nested menus are particularly ingenious either - a blind copy of Windows' machines horrible mousey pointy-clicky which was never considered terribly user friendly, so if you didn't care for the knob, I'm not sure I'd consider it lesser than Miele's baseline interface to the oven. And for those who routinely pipe up at this juncture - I am talking about the interface to the oven not the stored "masterchef" features.

I won't argue with you about the Chef-series' settings. I'm not familiar enough with them to do so. I will say that they weren't intuitive the way the old Novotronic knob interface to the user panel was intuitive, and the Miele showroom staff weren't familiar with it so to the extent that I'm familiar with the old Novotronic knobs, I was able to divine ops and show them how to get around a few of the selections, but the rest of the options we never did get to as the staff didn't know how to use them at all. I hadn't read the manual and I'd never dismiss a product without reading the manual to understand ops so I was prepared to be impressed-until-proven-wrong with it. However, if you say that the settings aren't natural, that may be the case.

What a shame.

Miele's done excellent and very efficient multi-function knob interfaces before - the old novotronics that they had for donkey's years was superb. They aren't the only ones with it - Kuppersbusch has the same thing as did the old German(??)-made Bosch ovens. Really good and very easy to quickly get around the menus very efficiently.

Mindstorm, can I ask how much you know about Kuppersbusch appliances? What limited information I can get on it, I really like, but it's hard to find user opinions.

bishop,
I hope antss can help you more here. Kuppersbusch hasn't made a firm impression here in the US (assuming you're in the US) so you're right that it is hard to get more informed topical views here.

I'm predisposed to like them and their products. My parents have some Kuppersbusch things and they are still alive and well 30+ years on. (That said, my mother still has a Baby Belling stove! and Molineux small appliances all of which are now ~ 30 - 40 years old - and Belling is no fancy brand ;-) ).

I believe Kuppersbusch is considered fairly upmarket but I've no idea which of their products they manufacture themselves - perhaps Antss will give his more educated views here.

Speaking for myself, this is the one brand that I've always considered first when shopping for any given appliance. Rightly or wrongly, they give the feeling that they are designed by [German] engineers for [German] engineers with nary a marketing person in sight - the picture of teutonic efficiency. Gaggenau, at 50 times the price is the other brand that evokes (evoked - I haven't comparo shopped appliances in almost 5 years) the same feeling of solid adherence to engineering above anything else. However, K'busch sizes are odd for America - 24" or 36" ovens - that's it! Not a 27", not a 30". Cooktops were 22" or 33" or something like that (although a quick look online today shows they have 30" and 36" units). Their gas cooktops - for that was what I'd been considering 4+ years ago when I did my remodel were too wimpy (11KBTU and 13KBTU peak) for me to go for. Dishwasher - I didn't seriously consider it because I was going to be reusing my tried nad true Bosch unit - not sure if this is right or not, but something gave me the impression that it was a rebadged Bosch or Siemens - no idea if that is right or not.

Coffeemaker - I understand that these were the blokes who came out with the inbuilt residential coffee/espresso machine idea (not that I think there's much brownie points to be had for that first, mind you) and that Dacor uses or used K'busch to make their espresso machines for them and have them badged as Dacor. Not sure if that still holds good but it was quite plain to see a few years ago. I believe these were really good units, too.

So, while I looked at K'busch first for ovens (sizes put me off), cooktop (were I to get induction, I firmly believe that these are the ones I'd get, but gas was unimpressive), DW (didn't choose this), espresso machine (didn't get one at all - not an inbuilt one anyhow), we wound up not getting any of them. So, is that an endorsement? Not sure, but I still think that they are a solidly satisfying product - generally speaking.

Sorry - I forgot to explicitly summarize that any relevant personal experience I have with them is with 30+ year old products from them. I have no direct experience with their more contemporary products except for those I played with in showrooms - just the same as yours.

Thanks for the information mindstorm (and sorry if I threadjacked, plumberry). You have an interesting take, and I generally agree (I laughed as I was thinking of FUBU for German appliance engineers).

They have some really intresting features (i.e. that catalytic converter for the wall oven, which Gaggenau also has), and their oven sizes are indeed odd. I didn't look too closely at the interface yet, but I do recall this area of ~20 buttons with symbols on them -- thinking I was going to have to tape a cheatsheet nearby for my wife.

Thanks again.