Do you have a good appliance store that also deals with contractors? Or, at least, that has proper salesmen that will sit down and do research for you? Older, simpler styles and models are often available even though that's not what you see in the showroom.

You should know, however, that new dishwasher detergent works differently than the old stuff, and the new dishwashers work differently too. I don't have time to enumerate all the ways, tonight, but I and many others have described these issues at length in the forum, and you can find out if you do a search.

Short version: The detergent uses enzymes rather than caustics to consume food residue. You have to leave some on the plate so they're work. The machines are designed to be energy efficient and water conservative so take a long time to run. Most use convection to dry the dishes, so require a lot of mass in the make-up of the tub as well as of your load of dishes to get them dry. Some American machines still have heaters. Maybe. I haven't checked recently. Those are the highlights.

GE is adequate, but not great (I have one). KitchenAid is better regarded for an American dishwasher with a heater. It's also one you should be able to get in a simpler model if you ask the right people. It might be new old stock, but if it's fully warranted by the company, that's okay.

Best of luck. I miss old dishwashers...

plllog ~ I learned a lot from your post. I plan on zeroing in on a KitchenAid. I already know I will have to give up on thinking that I can get one as PERFECT as my 35 yr. old G.E. It is difficult to accept that machines aren't made as well as they used to be. Is it because they would be too expensive & people wouldn't be willing to pay the price? So sad really. Anyway, thank you for your time.

You may be surprised to find that today's machines are much better than the old one. Of course it will depend on what model you get. Don't sacrifice quality just because you don't "want" an electric panel. Why not just focus on getting the best value machine? After years of Kenmore Elite models we now have a low end Bosch. There is no comparison the Bosch is much better quality.

DebraK, you're right, in theory, about the new machines. They are well made. But a 35 year old dishwasher was made with different goals in mind. DW's used to be designed to wash dishes thoroughly and dry them completely. They used a lot of energy that the latest models don't, they used a lot more water, they probably used more natural resources in their construction, but they did a great job, and when they needed fixing, it was just a few mechanical repairs that a knowledgeable person with a good toolbox could make.

When there is a computer board controller, they can add all kinds of marginal functions that become advertising fodder. Look, it has 16 different cycles! It's better! Pay us more! Whereas, people rarely use more than one or two settings.

One of the better things about the GE Monogram (same works as GE) from four years ago, which I have, is that it only has about half a dozen cycles and describes well what they do, in the book, and then there are some add ins that you can choose to customize your loads. I almost never use any setting but my standard, but it's customized for my lifestyle. I use plastics cycle, added heat (water) and heated dry. That makes up for the fact that I don't have a lot of mass in most of my loads, and gets the dishes dry which is a must for me. But it's nowhere near as good as the old Whirlpool basic model that came with the house. Neither Miele nor KitchenAid, which are the two best regarded brands, fit my dishes!

LeFleur, do inspect the racks before you buy. :) Best of luck.

I think that noise levels will matter to you. It is really incredible how noisy some dishwashers that are not well-insulated are. We typically only run our dishwasher every other day too now that there are just the two of us.

IMHO
Best =Miele
Next best =Bosch (close second)

KitchenAid? Visit KitchenAidfires.com before plunking down your hard earned cash on a KA. I had a KA refrigerator and range and had read enough here to drop $900 on a Miele 4225 Classic instead. Great machine, well engineered.

I had a GE monogram dishwasher last about 12 years, then pump seal went, couldn't buy neither the seal or housing so machine was junk. Yeah, GE doesn't want to sell you a part, they want to sell you a new machine, ......and make more money. 35 year old machine, wow, that was a good machine.

Desire no electronics? Not going to happen as no more mechanical timer versions exist.

Best of luck in your decision.

For whatever it's worth, our house came with a Bosch dishwasher purchased from Sears about 5 years ago. After living in over a dozen rental houses and apartments in my 20s and 30s with inexpensive crappy dishwashers, the Bosch is a revelation. In the two years we have lived in our current house our dishwasher has not chipped or broken a single dish. It also gets our dishes squeaky clean unless we overload it. The same cannot be said of any of the cheaper dishwashers in our rentals.

The only thing I don't like about it is that it takes over an hour to run the normal cycle and then it beeps when it's done until we open it up, which is a pain since we normally run it after dinner and it finishes when we are trying to go to sleep! We were able to disengage the beeping at one point but somehow, someway it crept back - we need to dig out the manual.

It has lots of options too and I have no idea what they do. I just use the regular or economy cycle and ignore the rest. Easier to do for me on a dw than a range, I'll admit!

I have a GE Profile which I really like. It replaced a Bosch which didn't clean anything and which didn't seem very efficient with space. My dishwasher has a feature where you can put a whole bottle of detergent in at once and it will dispense as needed. Maybe it's a bell and whistle you might not want. But it also cleans well.

One thing is that most modern dishwashers take longer to clean than older models. I think it is because they are designed to be energy efficient.

I'll repeat a suggestion on made on another recent dishwasher thread... I highly recommend the Maytag brand. I would be wary of any of the other Whirlpool brands for dishwashers now, KitchenAid included. The reason being that they switched to a new wash system that is unproven. It uses an even less powerful pump than before, and has a manual clean filter instead of a food grinder. It alternates wash action between the top and the bottom rather than doing both at once. The fact that it has to do that suggests how wimpy the pump is.

Maytag on the other hand still uses the older wash system which has been proven to do a great job. They show no signs of abandoning it since they just refreshed their dishwasher line and it appears to be even quieter and more energy efficient, while retaining the powerful pump with the grinder. And their dishwashers are reasonably priced compared to the commonly regarded high end brands.

In order to use less energy and to be more quiet, modern dishwashers have much less powerful pumps than the old ones did and run for a much longer time. To an extent that's OK, but with many dishwashers now incorporating 1/12 horsepower pumps and running for multiple hours not including dry time they have taken it too far in my opinion. For comparison, the iconic Kitchenaid dishwashers of days past manufactured by Hobart used 1/2 horsepower motors and ran for just over an hour, including heated dry time (normal cycle).

In my experience the best dishwashers ever made in terms of raw cleaning power were the Whirlpool PowerClean series. They were made from the 80s up until 2010 and over the years were available in the Whirlpool, Kenmore, KitchenAid, and Maytag brands. They used 1/3 HP motors and a clever pump design. If you ever consider a used dishwasher, they are something to look for.

This post was edited by hvtech42 on Thu, May 22, 14 at 20:27

Well, that explains why the ugly old Whirlpool dishwasher that came with my house did such a good job...

I have lived in many places and had many dishwashers. None has cleaned my dishes as well as my current Bosch 800 series DW. It may take long to run it - I don't sit around waiting for it to finish, usually just run it at bedtime. It does dry the dishes quite well, even without a heated dry cycle.

After our 2nd failing Kenmore Elite dishwashers, my wife and I decided to go with a low end Frigidaire with fewer bells and whistles. Yes, it's slightly louder, but not an issue as far as we're concerned. Cleans dishes, pots, and pans just as good as the Elite and saved us a few hundred bucks. With a dishwasher typically in the island, under counter, it's the least noticeable appliance.