Schumacher Homes - opinions?

13 years ago

Many years ago I used to read this forum because my husband and I planned on building upon our move to the Carolinas. However, we ended up buying a house and have been in it for four years. We are now once again entertaining the idea of building a house, and are seriously interested in Schumacher Homes. We toured one of their model homes and love the floorplan (The Sonoma). We think we may be able to start the process of building by Summer 2012.

We will be building in the Charlotte metro area, and I wonder if anyone has experience with the Schumacher offices in the NC/SC area? Or even Schumacher in general? I know there was a thread on here many years ago when we were first looking into building, but I'd love to hear more recent feedback as well as from those who have been in their Schumacher homes for a while now.

Some details: we own 1/2 an acre of land already, and it will require a septic tank system since there is no sewer available. Natural gas is available. The lot is slightly sloped to the back of the property line. We plan on building a crawlspace foundation.

Thanks in advance for any responses!

Featured Answer

Barbara Woolmington

5 years ago

Be afraid, be very afraid. My wife and I went through a similar experience with Schumacher, where the sales rep was absolutely wonderful and we went through the entire design process and ready to sign the contract, but when I reviewed it and tried to discuss my concerns with them, I was told that there were absolutely no changes allowed, even small ones to clarify that what the sales rep promised me in the sales office was true, when the contract said the exact opposite. I'm a very experienced contract negotiator who worked in the shopping center industry for over 30 years before retiring and moving to Asheville. I can honestly say that it was the absolute worst one-sided contract that I have ever seen in 40+ years of business. If you sign it, you have basically signed a one sided contract that completely protects the builder and has zero protection for the client. Despite what you are promised, they can change the "guaranteed price" for almost any reason, they have no obligation to ever deliver the house to you except for a very small penalty that applies if the house is over 6 months late, but it could be several years late for the same small penalty. It's a "Trust Me" contract that basically says, despite whatever you were promised, including the guaranteed price, nothing that was promised by the sales rep will be honored because the contract negates everything you were promised or led to believe you would get.

If you had this contract reviewed by an attorney, not one of them would allow you to sign it, because it's that bad. Remember the old adage, "if it's too good to be true, it probably is", because it absolutely applies here. Schumacher has a very slick business model, with the beautiful model home (that in no way reflects what you will get, because everything you like about the model is an "extra".) very friendly and trusting sales people who promise that everything will come out perfectly (on time construction and at the fixed price) but the fine print in the non-negotiable contract says basically that they will do what they can to get you a house built close to what was promised, but that there are no guarantees about price, quality, timing or anything else. They keep the quoted price down by the tried & true "Bait & switch" concept. My conclusion was that in a construction market where there are a lot of unemployed contractors, no demand for housing and material prices are soft, you might get the basic house you were promised but with the lowest possible quality workmanship. In the housing market we now have here in Asheville, you will get whatever they end up getting from the contractors who can't get contracts elsewhere, whenever they happen to get it finished. The contract is so bad that once the buyer discovers what a pickle they got themselves into, they can only cancel by agreeing to pay Schumacher "100% of the profits that they would have made if they built the house" which is completely undefined and would lead to a lawsuit, unless you agreed to pay them whatever they demanded. Even the refundable deposit is non-refundable according to the contract. Because my business involved reviewing and approving potential retail tenants business plans, I have always been interested a companies "business model" works. Schumacher's business model is to promise everything, work with you to design your dream home until you are so deeply invested in the process that you can't back out, then get you to sign a contract that guarantees nothing and gives them an iron clad contract that guarantees them a profit no matter how badly the job goes. It's a Win-Lose business model that relies on unsophisticated home buyers hoping to get a house built for less than market (something for nothing) and signing a contract that gives them no rights whatsoever. Once the buyer hired an attorney, they would be told that they signed away all their rights and that there is nothing that could be done except to walk away from a partially built home and pay Schumacher 100% of whatever "potential profits" they demanded and then start over with another builder. As good as the low price per sq. ft. sounds, remember that there is no free lunch. I learned a long time ago the difference between the cheapest bid and the best bid. Don't be fooled or you will live to regret it.

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Comments (377)

Christy Searcy
2 years ago
Thank You all for the comments. We are in the very first stages right now and trying to decide on who to go with. We love the Schumacher homes and everything about them. We understand that it is a process and with everything there can be issues. Wondering about the time frames at this point... From the time that ya'll signed to the point that you are now. I saw that @Kay Shir you had said you broke ground in Feb, when did you sign? Was there a long wait between the sign to the ground breaking? We will be selling and moving to an apartment till home is done, so this is a big question for us. Thanks for any help with this part! Love seeing everyones beautiful homes!
HU-191479233
2 years ago
Hi @Christy Searcy, glad you are breaking ground! It's an exciting time for sure. Just be patient with supply chain and labor issues. It's a reality in every industry right now and you may need to compromise along the way with changes (usually upgrades) on certain materials and supplies. To be honest, our 1500 sq ft house has taken about 9 months from start to finish which is still fast compared to most builders. Just keep an open mind and communicate! Best of luck!
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I want to add something to this thread even though I have essentially been discouraged from participating, as I have not built with Schumacher homes. All builders have to make money. The sky is up, water is wet and businesses are designed to make a profit. Also, the higher the overhead the more gross profit a business requires. Unlike most people here I don't hate tract builders, if the house retains value then it retains value. I grew up in a city where one tract builder essentially built 50% of the city, the houses are crap, but they do hold their value and you can get a lot of bang for your buck. I mean I just looked on the builder's website and you can get a 3,575 square foot home for $233,000, that is a lot of house for that money. Let's break builders down into four broad categories (1) Tract, (2) build their plan on your lot, (3) entry level custom, and (4) high end custom. The builder I trust the least is the "build their plan on your lot" builders. I just don't see where their profit comes from. In large part tract builders make their money from the lot. Many are building entry level houses at cost because they bought a hundred acres of land and spent a million dollars developing the land and then sell 600-800 lots for $30,000 per lot. The economies of scale are just not there for even massive tract builders to support their infrastructure from upgrade premiums. With both types of custom builders you can usually see profit right there as a line item. However, with the "build their plan on your lot" builders I just don't see how the profit is generated. With their massive overhead it seems like a lot of profit to eek out of economies of scale. This is not to say they are not a good deal, or that they are not a good choice for you, but you need to approach the deal with a healthy skepticism. Ask them how they make their money, and see what they say.
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It's a cute house, but the layout seems a bit 1950s in that it's not real flow-y. To start with, coming in from the garage, you walk right through the kitchen. Since the garage entry is small, the kitchen counter will get cluttered with mail, shopping, and outgoing items. The view from the kitchen is...the hall bathroom! The view from the front door is the far living room wall, or the kitchen island stools. The master is through a "pocket office", which, if you are like most people, would have bills and statements on it. Not what you want greeting you first thing in the morning or last thing at night. The master bath isn't quite big enough for two sinks, and they take away from counterspace and storage space beneath. And the closets are not only through the bathroom, they are IN tThe bathroom, and right next to the toilet at that. You'd want to reconfigure that, swapping the laundry with the closets. That gives the laundry a window to the outside (and maybe even a convenient door to the outside), and the closet door can open to the bedroom. Beyond that, there really isn't any flow, no circulation. Everything radiates off the living room, so there is only one way to get anywhere. Try arranging furniture in the living room to see how you might lay it out, without it being in the way of getting to a bedroom. Or put a table in the dining area, where you have to dodge it getting to and from the master bedroom. (And, do you want someone at the table or on the sofa to be able to look through into your bedroom?) Don't get me started on the "cuteness" of marriage-saver vanity and "mom-den" lol. exited to add, after looking at the walk through video (I clicked on Charleston A Akron), that is NOT the same master bathroom. There are basement stairs not shown on the plan. Boy, that one bedroom is tiny.
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pesuazo
2 years ago
Today had a meeting with the PM (at the house)....looks like next week will be extremely busy and a lot will get done...they are currently sanding and priming the interior:

0.- Painting will be completed next week

1.- Siding will be delivered and installed next week

2.- Cabinets will be delivered next week and probably installed as well (depending on paint)

3.- Shower tiles will be done next week

4.- Floors will be done right after 2/3 (he is not sure if next week or week after)

5.- Final grading 3rd/4th week in September or early October (then concrete driveway - TBD)

6.- AC/Heating somewhere between now and October 10th

7.- Toilets, sinks, etc. between second week in September and October 10th

On the part that I manage:

1.- Septic will be installed on Monday...County will come by in the afternoon to inspect

2.- Propane tank will be installed fourth week in September (depending on final grade/concrete driveway scheduling)

We broke ground May 25th (start digging foundation)...if the house is done by October 25th...that would be 5 months from end to end....we have had challenges with materials, labor and weather....but it still looks like we are on track for 5 months....as long as materials and labor show up, and weather helps...

So far we have been very pleased

A couple of pics of the inside as it stands today.
Johns Creek
2 years ago
Oh my, how I remember those days!! It’ll all come together soon. We’ve been working on the yard. The birds decided to get in on the action and dropped sunflower seeds for us…this is the current view of our front porch haha
HU-191479233
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
We had a couple of minor snags that held up our closing but we should be done by the 8th fingers crossed. In the meantime I picked up this brand new Pella storm door on Facebook Marketplace for $100 with the handle. Apparently their wife didn't like it lol! I spent 1/2 my day yesterday installing it on the new house. Needed something for that side door. Not bad for $100! I tell you, you can find amazing deals if you look for returns at Lowes or Facebook Marketplace.
pesuazo
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
A lot has been done since my last update...but here is a peek from last week.....a lot more has been done since.....as of right now, it looks like house will be completely done by October 25...which would be exactly 5 months since Schumacher broke ground digging footers

Gas tank is installed...septic installed, inspected and approved by county....power is on, water is on. Concrete driveway to be poured on Friday
Roger Dodger
2 years ago
Nice. Definitely unique. Do you have a fireplace right next to your front door?
pesuazo
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
@Roger Dodger .... no fireplace at that location...that is just for looks...my office is to the right of it, but I decided against a fireplace in the office...living room fireplace is enough...:-)

Attached is a recent pic
pesuazo
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
Just to wrap up....our house is finished and we got our keys......144 days after breaking ground, the house was "finished"....just 2 things left in the punch list...the garage doors and the master bath shower doors.....Overall there was only one complaint...we had to keep the painters coming back for final touch-ups.....we are VERY satisfied with the end result...overall we score Schumacher A- .... every single contractor A- (with the exception of the painters C+)...the Construction Manager A++.....we should start moving slowly this weekend...we sold our current home with a closing date of Nov 30...
Charles
2 years ago
Pretty quick build in these times, pesuazo. Good for you. Apologize if already covered, but what brand/material did you go with for your windows? Also, is it normal in your area to build foundations with concrete block rather than poured concrete?
pesuazo
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
Andersen windows.....I believe Schumacher only uses Andersen (as far as I know).....the foundation is actually poured concrete and then they built cinder block pillars reinforced with rebars....I posted the foundation concrete a few months back, however, here is a pic of the poured concrete (sometime late May early June)
carra
2 years ago
@pesuazo

Those are foundation footings. A poured concrete foundation looks like this:
Jen K (7b, 8a)
2 years ago
@carra - hope you had a nice hiatus. I'd think the break would find you in a kinder state of contribution, but I see you've returned with your attitude.

@pesuazo - I've been reading your updates. It's a great to see you're either close to moving or on your way to moving in. Thank you for sharing your experience.
Trey 567
2 years ago
@pesuazo

Thanks for the updates. Enjoy that new home!
Roger Dodger
2 years ago
Carra is correct, though. Those are simply footers, not a "poured concrete foundation". And if showing what a proper poured foundation looks like qualifies as attitude, then we're all in trouble. Ha. Anyway, enjoy the home, Pes! Looks awesome!
Kay Shir
2 years ago
Hello! final comment on our home as well we signed with our loan dec 28th, broke ground in late february (we had a cold wet winter) and closed labor day weekend. we love everhthing about our new home, including all the finishes and our builder. we have sevwral friends building now, that broke ground in a similiar time frame but are no where done, and over budget. We continue to recommend them in our area and are so excited to finally be in our new home! we have the beverly, with an expanded kitchen and owner bath. Built on my family farm outside of Louisville KY.
Christopher Winebold
2 years ago
Kay, we built that same house in Ohio. The Ravenna office was in charge. I wish I had not gone with them. They are the most arrogant, deceitful, and dishonest business people I have ever encountered. We are in the middle of an issue now that may become a legal problem , so I will not comment any further. I will update when all is taken care of.
pesuazo
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
To answer the previous question: "Also, is it normal in your area to build foundations with concrete block rather than poured concrete?"...the answer is yes...in my area it is normal to build foundations with concrete block. I have also seen them use brick, for houses that will have a full basement, they use what @carra posted.....@Jen K and everyone else, thanks for the good wishes...we started moving this weekend and will continue to do so over the next few weeks....we are set to close on the sell of our current home by November 30....so we are in no rush, however, our covered patio is already furnished...lol....
pesuazo
2 years ago
@Roger Dodger...that looks like a proper poured foundation for a house with a basement. In my area I have never seen concrete walls like pictured unless people are making a living space below the house
Kay Shir
2 years ago
@pesuazo That covered patio looks amazing!!!! love the furniture. ive also really enjoyed all the updates!!!
Daniel L. G.
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
@pesuazo It seems the building process has been going smoothly for you. You mention you caught some things that needed to be corrected, which they addressed promptly. Do you have some expertise in construction that allowed you to identify these issues quickly or did you hire an inspector for this? Did capturing these issues require you to be more thorough in your inspection? (e.g. taking measurements, etc.)

I had my initial appointment with Schumacher. They seemed very transparent and welcomed me to inspect and 'approve' before moving forward through the different phases of the construction process. However, I am considering bringing an inspector to do this, since I am not an expert in the subject.

It seems like you went with the Charleston model. Is that right?

Thanks for posting your progress. It provides some peace of mind.
pesuazo
2 years ago
@Daniel L. G. ... the things I caught pretty much had to do with the drawing itself...I became VERY familiar with the drawings (dimensions and locations)...I went thru all in detail...sometimes the framers would do something not aligned with the drawing (hence my measurement taking), and I would speak with the PM (who immediately told the framers, carpenter, plumber or electrician to fix the issue or do the work to my expectations).....the town inspector had to come every major step along the way and "approve" the work....I did not hire someone for that....however, I asked to be informed whenever the town inspector would come (I asked a lot of questions to him/her)....the inspector responses made me feel a lot better about the quality of work being done.....
Daniel L. G.
2 years ago
@pesuazo Thank you so much for sharing this. I will follow your approach.
Brooke Olson
2 years ago
@pesuazo Thank you for the detailed updates. Just looking at multiple different builders and pricing, etc. I really appreciate the honesty in your posts. Would you mind me asking how often you heard, "that is an upgrade?"

And also, about what percentage above the "Starting Price" was the end price? I like the finishes you chose and it looks to me like you probably did upgrade on some items...so I would love if you could provide that info.

I am a busy working mom and running two companies, kids are everywhere and one has special needs...so my time is also very important to me, and to have a PM and designer to work with is valuable in itself...while many of the GC and local builders just leave a lot of those details to the homeowner to source and answer on their own.

Any advice you can offer or details on your process with schumacher would be greatly appreciated! thx
pesuazo
2 years ago
@Brooke Olson ...starting price was relative to what we wanted.....we wanted black windows, we wanted level x kitchen and bathroom cabinets, we wanted 12 foot ceilings in the living room and kitchen (and more cabinets to fill the gap), we wanted panoramic windows in living room and master bedroom, we wanted an extra full bathroom, we wanted a third car garage, we wanted an X by X covered patio, etc...we ended up about 30-40% above base price..."because we wanted".....then when the electrician showed up we wanted lights here, and there, and a generator inlet hook up, and an extra 40A run to the back for a future pool, etc...you get the idea....the bottom line is we picked what we could afford.....and left out what we wanted but could not afford (at that time)......piece of advice: try not to buy anything electrical from Schumacher....wait until the Electrician shows up (before the electrical walk-through) and pay him directly for what you want, Schumacher is OK with that....if you know someone that does tile work....wait until you have possession of the house and have your guy/gal do the tiles....or wood floors, or anything else.....it will be cheaper...probably much cheaper
Kay Shir
2 years ago
@Brooke Olson I agree with @pesuazo! Our final was also about 30-40% higher based on our selections. Other than the floor plans, one if my favorite features is the really straight forward pricing model. when you make your selections, and even before, you know exactly what the bottom line will be. as for ”thats an upgrade”, its more of whats included in the base- or level 1. so you want a specific granite (we did) they can tell hou immediately what the cost is. you eant to expand a section (we did two standard expansions- kitchen and owner bath) that is extra, etc. I found the process extremely straightforward and you leave with a big print out if everything you selected- which i referred back to during our entire build.
Kay Shir
2 years ago
Thaks @Jen K (7b, 8a) I flagged it as well.
Johns Creek
2 years ago
Oh my goodness!!! So many new plans on the website!! I’m almost ready to do it all over again after seeing a couple of these new plans. I do have a second lot next door… maybe I’ll add a family retreat! Seriously, I would sign up again with no hesitation.
HU-953636281
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
Schumacher is the WORST!!

poor quality, poor communciation, liars and theives. We signed a contract to build with them almost 2 years ago. house was supposed to be done in 5 months…no communictaion on delays or updates. Still not finished. GM doesnt care-no response feom google review or home office. RUN! dont do it!
NC Native
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
Curious which location? check out schumachervictims.com or on Facebook @schumachervictims
HU-953636281
2 years ago
Louisville, KY. will do!
Jen K (7b, 8a)
2 years ago
HU-953636281 is a one hit wonder. Blocking and tackling. Carra is that you?
HU-776097774
2 years ago
We are looking at building with schumacher

Is it really better to do your own floors and tiles?

how about the kitchen cabinets?
millworkman
2 years ago
"Is it really better to do your own floors and tiles?

how about the kitchen cabinets?"

They will not let you as they need the house finished to close.
pesuazo
2 years ago
Not during construction.....you can go the least expensive way with them and after they give you the keys you can have your contractors come back and rip the carpet, install floors and tiles ...same thing with the kitchen cabinets
HappyBuyer
2 years ago
We initiated the process with them in June, got our financing in October, and just broke ground in February. While the wait to break ground took longer than expected, it seems to be going quickly now as foundation is done and just needs to be sealed. Our PM (from Schumacher Homes of Columbus, OH South) has been excellent. Everyone has been really transparent and fair about the process and, as of right now, we have zero complaints - only praise. We are hopeful to move in around August when school starts for the kids. I'll come back for periodic updates :)
HappyBuyer
2 years ago
Wanted to post an update on the build. Foundation was sealed within a week of my last post and framing started this week 😍
pesuazo
2 years ago
Congrats @HappyBuyer ....my pool is just finished (not Schumacher) ....I am looking forward for the summer ! (still need to sod the surroundings)....
HappyBuyer
2 years ago
Guys, Schumacher is killing it. Now that they’ve started, everything is going fast. I think our biggest potential for a setback is coming from our electric company. Zero concerns about our builders having to slow the process for any reason. We have a second floor AND shingles on the roof as of last week.
pesuazo
2 years ago
@HappyBuyer ....when they get on a roll...they just move...Congratulations !
Blair
2 years ago
@happybuyer. There is a home building thread here that says. April 2022. You should join
HappyBuyer
last year
Posting another update. Our dig started on Feb 22 and we are being told that the house should be done by the end of June 🙌🏼🙌🏼 Way ahead of schedule. The inside is painted and they are installing cabinets and trim this week. From there, we’ll just need a little bit of tile work, lights installed, outlets/switches, paint touch up, etc. Lots of little details but we’re almost there!
HU-342567110
last year
What plan is this?
HappyBuyer
last year
Ashley :)
HU-377303322
last year
last modified: last year
Our house almost close. floor plan is Olivia.
Heather Victor
9 months ago
@HappyBuyer are you still happy and glad you went with Schumacher?
NC Native
9 months ago
https://reason.com/volokh/2022/07/14/libel-lawsuit-against-consumer-waives-right-to-arbitration-of-underlying-dispute/
NC Native
9 months ago
Buyer be warned!
pesuazo
9 months ago
last modified: 9 months ago
?...that is an order denying a motion....what was the final outcome of the case?...
Jasmine Cortez
4 months ago
We like our Schumacher house. Everything is good. We're satisfied. Their representatives were also very nice.

Schumacher Homes - opinions?

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