Pre-fab Shower Pans and code compliance

14 years ago

How do prefabricated shower pans (such as KBRS, TileReady and Schulter Kerdi-Shower) comply with codes such as IRC PreSlope 2000 IRC P2079.3, which I think has since been updated to 2007 IRC, as well as UPC 412,8). More specifically, where does the liner (PVC or CPE) go - between the subfloor (in my case, concrete slab) and the liner/pan, or above the pan, but before the thin-set/tile?

Also, I can't seem to determine whether these liners/pans will withstand steam. I would assume so, but have not yet spoken with the manufacturers. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (4)

MongoCT
14 years ago
I can't speak for the KBRS, but the TileReady and the Schluter foam tray?

TileReady: You set the base, it is water and vapor impermeable by itself, so the base itself does not need any CPE or CPVC liner or membrane on top of it. You'll want to seal the wall vapor barrier to the top flange of the pan. That way for a steam shower you'll have an integral vapor barrier on the ceiling and walls, and by sealing the wall barrier to the pan, the shower floor will become integral too. You tile directly on the surface of the TileReady pan.

Schluter: The foam tray gets set to the floor. You'll then need a water/vapor barrier on top of the foam tray, but not CPE or CPVC. You use Kerdi membrane. Kerdi the ceiling, the walls, and the sloped tray, and you have an integral water and vapor proof barrier throughout your shower. All you have to do is overlap the membrane by 2" and the seam is good to go. Waterproof and vapor-tight. You then tile right on the Kerdi membrane.

Kerdi is the only thing I'll use for steam showers, and it's pretty much all I've used for regular showers for well over a decade.

Regardless of what system you use, any you mentioned or any other type, you want the floor membrane to be sloped. You do NOT want the membrane flat on the floor, then sloped mud and them tile over that. The membrane itself has to be sloped.

In the case if the TileReady, the surface of the pan is the membrane, and it's sloped. You're good to go with that.

With Kerdi, if you put it on the Kerdi foam tray, the tray is sloped, so the Kerdi membrane will be sloped. You;re good there. If you use a deck mud slope under the kerdi, and thinset the Kerdi to the sloped mud, again, the Kerdi will be sloped since it's on a deck mud slope, so you're good to go.
bill_vincent
14 years ago
Let me also add-- you want to stay away from the tile ready pans. Unless you put the pan in place (and to do that, the drain must be roughed in, perfectly centered) and then build your framing around it, you're going to have problems with the transition from the pan to the durock.
Related Discussions
Shower pan to wall transition (How?)
Q
Comments (4)
dave, a couple of things: "There is a former Kerdi seller who now carrys ProVa-Mat who whines on every forum about how they took his bread and butter, but he made one good point- Kerdi doesn't want you to use modified thinset because it isn't faced to accept it well. " Kerdi doesn't want you to use modified not because "it isn't faced to accept it", they don't recommend using modified because the latex modifiers need exposure to free air to dry. The portland cement portion of the thinset cures via a chemical reaction...no drying or exposure to air is needed. But the latex modifiers found in modified thinset need exposure to free air to dry. When thinset is sandwiched between a sheet of Kerdi and a porcelain tile, the only air exposure is through the grout lines. Small tiles that would result in a lot of closely spaced grout lines, you might be okay. Large format tiles with few grout lines and little exposure to air, not so good. If you were to just smear modified thinset on Kerdi and let it cure, you'd find it will adhere quite well. The Kerdi thread you like with no photos and the Kerdi thread you dislike with photos are essentially the same thread showing the exact same steps. You wrote: "I also found this kerdi thread that has pictures...but he doesn't go up the walls from the floor with the membrane, instead he seals thinsets at the floor/wall transition- not recommended. " The method in that thread is correct. With Kerdi, any membrane overlap or at least 2" is correct and watertight. Remember you can have a 2" seam on the floor slope itself...there is also an overlap seam where every Kerdi floor membrane seals to every Kerdi Drain. Any Kerdi seam is fine as long as it's at least 2" of overlap. Kerdi doesn't have to be "lapped for drainage" like other membranes. "I am putting my mortar bed on a concrete slab. Do I need anything between concrete/mortar to prevent the slab from sucking the moisture out of the mortar before it cures properly? " You still want a slip sheet between the concrete slab and the slope. A sheet of 6-mil poly or tar paper will work fine. I've never used ProVa-Mat. Whichever membrane you use, just follow the manufacturer's installation instructions. I understand you're using cultured marble on the walls. Are you using it on the sloped shower floor too? Or will the sloped floor be tiled? If the floor slope will be covered with CM, how are you planning on sealing the seams between the sheets of CM?
...See More
Shower pan crack
Q
Comments (2)
We had a shower floor that got a crack in it and were trying to figure out how to fix it without removing the marble walls when we called the guy that had done our backsplash and he said he fixed them all the time like this. I am posting pictures. It turned out great. He painted the bottom of the shower pan with some sort of waterproof blue paint then came back and put brown "cement" stuff and then tiled it the next day. I know my use of "some sort and stuff" is frustrating but I am assuming any tile person would know what it is.
...See More
What are my options for no-tile shower pan?
Q
Comments (21)
Well after chasing down the plumber since before christmas he is finally done roughing in everything he has to rough in. So we're moving ahead at a snail's pace. GC installed the shower base per instructions and it installed pretty easily. The subfloor was very level to start with and then tiny minor tweaks (pushing it down a little on one side etc) got the pan dead level. It looked pretty easy to install anyway (I was standing there while he did it). Feels pretty solid too. They recommend that you leave I think 1/2" all around when you install it? something like that, to make it easier to position in the walls. My gc just put placed the shower pan in the right position and screwed down the base plates for the stud walls around it so he was able to install it a little more tightly. I think it was much easier to just have it resting against the base plate rather than having to manipulate it with the whole wall framed out already. The thing is HEAVY and you have to watch for fiberglass splinters on the outside of the flange.
...See More
Do all shower pans need a mud base?
Q
Comments (7)
Thank you all for the informative posts! I think we may need to go "back to the drawing board" and re-think our plan…… Our current home is a fairly well built 20 yr old "spec" home in Boise, Idaho. I think the first thing we need to do is find out what the underlayment or decking is, and if it is substantial enough as-is, or if it will need to be changed. I can see this spiraling out of control quickly! What I had in mind (and I probably used the wrong term) was a pre-fab shower base, which we would have installed by a plumber. My husband would then install the proper cement board and tile the walls. We have had a shower like this in a previous home--although it was a smaller shower, so flexing might not have been much of an issue. We are trying to be budget conscious and also simplify the installation procedure. But we certainly won't take any shortcuts that could lead to issues later. And--the information about "the weight of an average North American user" made me smile!! Thanks again--I'm sure I'll be back with more questions!
...See More
pepperidge_farm
14 years ago
Just want to add that we actually started out with a Tile Ready pan, and I was not happy with the looks of it.

Yes- as Bill mentioned the transition from the pan to the wall, and I was highly concerned with the redguard they put on it- it was not a complete coating and that led me to seriously question the whole thing. When I called them, they told me to just put another layer on.... hmmm. I didn't understand how the corners were water proof (and between the pan and the flange), among other things.

That's when I changed gears and went with the Kerdi one, which worked out very nicely.

Just my inexperienced assessment of the 2 products. Only have the Schluter pan installed, so the other may have been ok.
pepac
12 years ago
What about the code compliance of slope in the off center shower pans? Most of those do not comply with the 2% to 4% slope!!!!

Pre-fab Shower Pans and code compliance

Comments (4)

MongoCT

bill_vincent

Related Discussions

pepperidge_farm

pepac

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US