Not your models, but I had an early architect for which KA refunded me the purchase price and I currently have a ge profile. I'm critical by nature, so take that into account when reading the following. GE's grate design isn't the best or even second best. Where the tines open up between burners, small pots can drop through (the continous grates thing is lost on them). You can see the same sort of mistake on the Cafe. Their burner head design is awful. It actually takes LONGER to boil water on the 17k burner than the 12k because the diameter of the burner is so big it can't be used efficently for most pots. Conversely, the simmer burner runs too hot! KA's burners and grates are a better design and deliver more practical heat. However, the refund was because the burners kept melting the porcelain coating off the grates! Both the profile and ka have fairly low power, low efficency broilers. More expensive KA's have better broiling systems. The self-clean works well on both. My profile is two years old. The oven enamel has chipped off in places (naked and rusting are spots the size of quarters) where the racks go. I do not move the racks often. The bottom of the oven has other wierd defects including a 10" circle you can feel. After using both mfgr burners, I think you'd be best off with models that offered dual or triple ring burners. The cafe has at least one and a more powerful broiler. I would hesitate on the cafe because the ones I have seen in person look... well, they have fit and finish issues. Have you checked out the electrolux? It has much the same feature set as the cafe and just under $2k. Here is a link that might be useful: Electrolux

Would owners of KitchenAid's Architect Series II 30" double wall ovens please chime in and let me know how you feel about it's performance (also do you find it, controls easy to use & fast to preheat?). It's the convection upper/thermal lower configuration(#KEBS207SSS). Thanks so much!

We like ours. We looked at a variety of ovens in a remodel, at all price points. $$$ were not a driving factor for us. In spite of what everyone on here seems to think, I like the look of matching handles. We went with the KA KUDE70 DW and with the KA SS microwave that has the drop down door and control panel above, with the look of a mini-oven. We thought the ovens looked great with these two, and actually thought the features and controls were really nice. So far we have been very pleased. We did add a second roll out rack to the lower oven, to match the one that comes standard in the upper oven. It doesn't cost much, we ordered it diret from KA. The only real issues I have read about concerned the self cleaning features, which some seem to have had issues with. To be honest, I do not like selfcleaning, the high heat is not natural and I can see where this will shorten the life span of some components, regardless of the brand. Happily, the design of the oven interior makes it super easy to clean up any spills. My wife cooks and if she spills anything in the oven, as soon as it is cool I clean it up. Usually only requires a wet cloth, but I think once I used some Barkeepers Friend on a tough spill. As of now, it looks brand new. Oh, I did notice a speck of dust under the glass on the upper oven door after it was installed. I removed the inner glass and cleaned it off, and reinstalled the inner glass. Otherwise, no issues at all. We went with Dacor for our cooktop, which was a drop in on a granite surgace with a pop up vent behind (there is a window behind the cooktop).

charlyinfl, Thanks so much for the suggestion. I was excited when I read your post and could hardly wait till this morning for my (engineer) husband to test the oven. If the bake coil wasn't working it would explain everything. Alas....it's working fine. At least it's heating up as expected. I called KitchenAid for service tho, because the bread dough proofing function doesn't work at all...the oven doesn't get the least bit warm...and I'm hoping that the serviceperson will have some ideas about the other problem too. (Kitchenaid says it's normal for the broil element to come on while baking, and didn't offer to have someone look at it.) This must be my bad day tho...Kitchaid aid phone customer service say "offices temporarily closed"...and their online scheduling service is also not working. But I'll persevere with this, especially since you say yours works fine. I sure hope it's fixable. Did I mention that my big Christmas turkey was all brown and dried out on top in just 1 1/2 hours, at 325 degrees, with the roast-pan cover on! If I can't get this resolved I think I'm going to bite the bullet, pay for a new oven and the cost of building it in, and get back to normal in my kitchen. Thanks again for trying to be helpful. I'll keep you posted. Carly