toilet flange on top of ceramic floor

14 years ago

We are replacing a builder toilet in our new house. DH hates these kinds of jobs. When we removed the old toilet, we saw that the flange was installed on top of the ceramic floor. So, DH didn't want to - or couldn't cut the tile and cut the pipe so he installed the new toilet and wax ring. It doesn't sit down even on the floor. Is this going to be a real problem and do I need to have someone - who can - come and fix it correctly? And, caulk or plumbers putty under the toilet to keep it from wobbling?

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Comments (3)

MongoCT
14 years ago
How high above the finished floor is the top of the flange? Ideally, it should be flush to maybe 1/4" higher than the floor.

If it is significantly higher and is indeed limiting the ability of your toilet to sit flush on the floor, then the best option is to replace the flange. With PVC or ABS it's fairly easy. If cast iron, call in a plumber.

While to me it's a misplaced "repair", I've seen people with tall flanges build up the area under the toilet, essentially raising the entire toilet up an inch or so. While it solves the problem, it doesn't really solve the problem. It just creates a new one.

If it's just an uneven floor that's causing the rocking, or an out-of-flat toilet base that's causing the rocking, I like to use plastic shims to level the base and prevent the toilet from wobbling. Then I'll caulk the gap around the base of the toilet, but leave an inch or so in the back uncaulked. That way if you ever had a leak under the toilet, you'd know about it, instead of the caulk holding the water in, sight unseen, while damage occurred.

I don't recommend plumbers putty, especially if you have a stone floor.
marc_ia
Original Author
14 years ago
Thanks for the answer. It is probably more than 1/4" It is the height of the flange which is a little more than that probably. It is not a metal flange. So for the future...do flanges come in different heights? So we could have gotten a "flatter" one? Sorry, I have never installed a toilet before. So, the problem is not an uneven floor...it is just that the flange was entirely above the tile floor instead of sitting down. So, the toilet is in and it is an elongated so it actually came to the floor in the front but not the back so he has a piece of cardboard under the front until he caulks. Now he has to cut the bolts off for the caps to fit on - is that normal. Thanks for your patience with my very basic questions.
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That's true, I didn't consider that it might be cast iron. If's its in a basement, and the floor is easily replaced, it may be worthwhile to take up the flooring, open the slab and dig a little. Messy, labor intensive operation though. I guess the solution will depend on the location of the affected appliance and the tools/skill level of the homeowner. I think lazypups idea of using the sheeted PVC to make a shim in the shape of the bottom of the bowl is probably the simplest solution. You could probably easily fashion one yourself (plywood?) if you can't find the material locally.
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There are several ways to do this, depending on the age and condition of the existing flange, and you don't typically need access from below. Sometimes the pipe is cut with an internal pipe cutter and an extension with a new flange is added on. More commonly, though, a flange extension of the correct thickness is bolted on top of the existing flange. Or, sometimes the amount of adjustment is small and can be handled by using an extra thick wax ring. Sometimes, even two wax rings are used, but this is not as good long term as doing a proper flange height adjustment. When I had to do this recently with a flange set too low in a concrete slab, I used the Set-Rite flange extender kit which can be used to raise an existing flange anywhere from 1/4" to 1-5/8". Set-Rite In any case, this is a very common task with many bathroom remodels and now you are informed about the typical options when your contractor tells you how he is doing it.
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I'm not quite sure why you would need to get down to the actual subfloor for any reason. If the new tile backer board is in good shape and stable and the tile adheres well, that is your new floor. I also doubt you have "hardwood" under the tile floor in a bathroom. In an older home it might be wood planks for a subfloor, but it would not be hardwood. The ceramic drain of a toilet does no sit on the floor flange (they use a very thick wax seal), so you might not have an issue with the flange's vertical spacing. The seal is about 1 1/2" (or more) thick, so you have a lot of space to play with. Slip some pieces of tile up under the existing flange so you have a flat place for the toilet to sit. Then set your toilet in place (no seal) and see if the flange is so high that the toilet will not set fully down on the tile. If it does set flat, things are fine. If it turns out to be too high, you just need to replace the toilet flange. This is a common repair for plumbers because the flange breaks, so there are various repair alternatives. For example, you can use a dremel (or a special plumbers tool) to cut the pipe from the inside and remove the flange. Then trim the pipe to the right pipe and install a repair flange. I would use one with a metal flange instead of plastic. Search youtube for videos on replacing a toilet flange on a PVC pipe. Bruce
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I didn't know if it mattered that a larger flange would be sitting above the original position, which is a hair lower than the surrounding surface. As for the moisture accumulating around the edge of the new flange, being that this bath isn't used very often and hasn't been in the 30 years it's been installed, once I begin to notice more wear or discoloration, then it would be time for me to replace the vanity top. The sink looks almost new except for that 1/4" ring of discoloration and hairline cracks around the flange. The original owners of the home had drips and hard water they never took care of. I would just hate to spend upwards of $1200 to replace the vanity top if a $10 flange would do the trick for now.. The vanity itself is wood and in great condition. The size is what makes it a little more costly. It's not a standard size top. Thanks for your help with this!
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MongoCT
14 years ago
Flanges are slightly different sizes, but the height is usually set by cutting the pipe that mates to the flange a certain distance below the subfloor.

When the flange is plumbed, usually there's just the subfloor in place. So you'd add the thickness of the underlayment (if any) to the thickness of the finish flooring, and that's how high above the subfloor you want the toilet flange to be.

It's common for a plumber to add a 1/4" or so to that, most prefer the flange to be slightly above the finish flooring than to end up below it.

Knowing how high you want the flange above the subfloor, you then cut the waste pipe at the appropriate spot so when it's glued together the flange sits at the proper elevation.

If the flange truly sits too high, the best thing to do is cut the waste pipe down and set a new flange. The flange can be cut out from the inside of the pipe, I have a small round blade, about 2" in diameter, that's on a shaft about 12" long. I mount it in a drill, insert it down the pipe, and cut the pipe from the inside.

It's not uncommon for the flange bolts to be too long and to have to cut them down to get the caps to fit. That's not a big deal.

So...long flange bolts? Not a problem.

The flange set so high that the toilet rocks when set upon it? That's bad. I wouldn't accept that. You don't want your wax ring to be crushed to nothing, you'll lose your seal. I'd have the flange reset.

toilet flange on top of ceramic floor

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MongoCT

marc_ia
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toilet flange on top of ceramic floor

Comments (3)

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marc_iaOriginal Author

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marc_ia
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