I have every rose on your list except Clio and am Zone 7 like you except it doesn't get as warm here in the summer I expect. I probably got most of mine from Pickering too. Expect roses in general to get at least a foot higher than Pickering suggests unless you are a pruner. I would give the Mosses 5X5 to be safe and the Gallicas, though 4X4 with moderate pruning would usually work. Chloris gets quite large. It is a long caned Alba rather different from the usual Alba growth(rather like Great Maidens Blush) but being totally thornless it is easy to place. I keep mine in a narrow slot about 5'wide by pegging it forward. It easily reaches 7'or more high. My Fürstin von Pless has been problematic-doesn't want to do a thing. It is a Hybrid Rugosa of course and spray drift can be a problem if you are planning on spraying. You need to account for that in spacing. Surpass Tout is one of my favorite Gallicas and as Olga said Jenny Duval will sucker vigorously...but it is a lovely rose. René d'Anjou is my best repeating Moss-better than Salat here. Mme de la Roche-Lambert gets Damask Perpetual crud here but has a beautiful spring bloom first. It repeats well but I dont spray with anything that keeps the crud truely at bay(sulfur) It is low and arching for me. Prince Napoléon is a very nice arching typical Bourbon. I suspect that it could get large. Mine has only been in the ground a couple of years from a band. You made some wonderful choices. As for the smaller size, Pickering grafted roses are generally smaller than the usual grafted #1 in the US because they are on multiflora. They are graded the same though, based on the number of canes. A 1 1/2 will be somewhat smaller and have fewer canes but every one I ever got that way did really well-by the end of the first season you could not tell. You will think they are puny but dont worry. patricia

I'm broke and out of space but I will be making room for the following: 1. BOULE DE NEIGE -- I've been lusting after this pure snowy white Bourbon for years and now is my last chance. His sister Coquette des Blanches is an excellent rose so I have high hopes for this beauty. 2. CASINO -- among my dwindling list of favorite vendors (Antique Rose Emporium, Chamblees & Heirloom) Vintage is the only one who is offering this fragrant Large Flowered yellow climber. He is replacing one of my Pilgrim's that got choked out by Belladonna last year. 3. ORFEO -- only Vintage and Rogue Valley Roses carry this dark red Large Flowered Climber that does particularly well in the Mid-Atlantic region. 4. SPARTAN -- nobody has this reddish orange VID Floribunda but Vintage. I figured I'd better snatch him up before it is too late. All these roses have strong fragrances. Others that I missed out on are Apricot Nectar VID, Lullaby, Osiria, Rosemary Rose, and Yolande d'Aragon. All these are hard to find but I'm particularly distraught over Osiria. Nobody has it but Vintage. Here is a link that might be useful: Osiria at HelpMeFind Roses This post was edited by molineux on Fri, Mar 15, 13 at 15:00

Just keeping everyone updated - Vintage sent out the roses that are still left after the first rush and that's posted below. Among these, I see an additional recommendation for The Prince's Trust that I got from Vintage a few years ago, and it's a red climber that very enthusiastically wants to grow. It was probably the biggest band plant I've ever seen at nearly 4 feet long, and it put on another 5-6 feet in its first year. It's a very healthy happy climber in my zone 5. Cynthia Remaining list as of March 6: Ch "Ferndale Red China" 1 ChCl Setina 1 E Jeannie Deans 1 Fl Centenaire de Lourdes 1 Fl Europeana 1 Fl Fire and Ice 14 Fl Fred Loads 1 Fl Holstein 1 Fl Impatient VID 1 Fl Jazz Fest VID 1 0 Fl Kirsten Poulsen 3 Fl Lili Marlène 1 Fl Lipstick 1 Fl Orange Garnet VID 2 Fl Playboy 1 Fl Showbiz VID 2 FlCl Heidelberg 9 1 HB "California Malton" 1 HM Heinrich Conrad Soth 1 HM Verdi 2 HP Dr. Masaryk 4* HP François Arago 5* HP Marguerite Guillard (Loubert) 8* HP Mme. de Staël 15* HP Paul's Single White Perpetual 3* HP Rose de Bouffarik 2* HP Silver Queen 1* HP "Souvenir de Mme. Berthier" 5* HT Blithe Spirit 1 HT Broadway 1 HT Chivalry 3 HT Die Welt 2 HT Ellen Willmott 1 HT Frances Ashton 1 HT Harry Wheatcroft 1 HT Kalahari 3 HT Love VID 1 HT Macho Man 1 HT Maria Callas VID 1 HT Movie Star 1 HT Peach Beauty VID 1 HT Slava 2 HT Tropicana VID 1 HTCl Amy Johnson 1 HTCl General MacArthur, Climbing 1 HTCl Queen Elizabeth, Climbing VID 8 HTCl Reine Olga de Wurtemburg 9 LCl Casa Blanca 2 LCl Coral Dawn 1 LCl Crimson Cascade 1 LCl Doubloons VID 1 LCl Dr. Covell's Carrotrooted Understock 2 LCl Eden 6 LCl Étendard 1 0 LCl Gold Rush VID 2 LCl Golden Threshold 3 LCl High Noon 1 LCl JACclam (aka America™) 1 LCl Joseph's Coat VI 1 1 LCl Lawrence Johnston 4 LCl Leverkusen 3 LCl Olive 5 LCl Pelé 4 LCl Rosendorf Schmitshausen 1 LCl Salita 8 LCl Sympathie 2 LCl Tempo VID 1 LCl The Prince's Trust 1 LCl White Cocade 2 LCl William Baffin 1 2 M "Joséphine de Beauharnais" 15* Min Magic Carrousel VID 1 Min Oakington Ruby 1 N "Lingo Musk" 1 N Narrow Water 1 Pol Ave Maria 5* Pol Mme. Taft 2 4* Pol Petite Marcelle 24* Pol Rösel Dach 16* PolCl Rose de Montplaisir 4* R America 3 R Baby Shower 4 R Chevy Chase 5 R Cooper's Burmese 4 R Dr. Huey VID 4 R Harry Maasz 1 R "Mystery Muse" 3 R Not Cherub 4 R Purity 7 1 R Ramona 3 R Roserie 2 R Wartburg 1 R Windermere 3 S Ferdy 10 S Hamburger Phoenix 7 S Illusion 1 S Romanze 1 S Rosy Cushion 4 3 S Salmon Wings 7* S Sandrine David 2* S Yellow Butterfly 3 S/AUS John Clare 6 S/Aus Red Coat 1 *Starred items are French Imports priced at $30 each

Good luck, Ingrid! After our usual droughty hot summer, in the last week we have gotten something like 6" of rain. Summer wasn't as dry as some, but seemed disproportionately destructive. A nurserywoman I was talking to suggested that the very wet spring encouraged plants to make an amount of growth that they couldn't support through the drought. I lost two mature shrubs and had a Hick's yew go brown...Taxus baccata for me from now on, it can take anything. Today we may actually get some sun. I have been thinking black thoughts lately and I think it has much to do with the lack of light, though even today is supposed to be partly cloudy at least; and the clouds I see out the window look menacing. So the garden has been watered: how it will do from now on will depend on whether we get some sun and warmth after the rain. The roses are leafing out brilliantly. I'm working for fun in the shade garden, planting bulbs and terracing, and for necessity out in the horrible large garden, with its diseased roses and invading weeds. I don't know whether it's my advancing age, or the weather this year, but I've hardly been out there. Fortunately I now have a helper one morning a week, and her company has given me the strength to go out and attack the situation. I hope this winter will be easier than last year, when we had snow on the ground for most of the winter and a late, wet spring. We also can't find hay for amendment. I think that with the late spring the farmers used up all their supplies while waiting for the first cut, and then we've been buying up old hay for years and may have cleaned out the local supply. We were able to find just five bales (2000 kgs. in all). But the hay, though late in coming, was abundant enough this year, and I'm hoping that next year there will be some leftover bales once more. I hope to have a more optimistic acount of the big garden to offer in a few weeks. Meanwhile, happy gardening to you all! I'm enjoying fall cleanup in the less compromised parts of the garden: all that organic matter getting fed back into the soil is inspiring as usual. And we got six inches of rain. Melissa