Not sure what they did but I agree $700 to make a window go up and down sounds steep. Try an internet search and see if the window problem is common to your model Jeep.

Thanks sdello...I'll try that...We made an appointment for tomorrow, and of course, no matter WHERE you are located, your are in their system...and he saw right away, that we had this problem with the other window..Now I figure with the rates higher in the NE...we should EXPECT to pay a higher charge for this service!! It's criminal.

I did a google search and found a supplier for an OEM regulator that runs $220.00. With shipping and installed by an independant mechanic it should run well under $400.00, not cheap but well under your quote.

paparoseman...thanks for the info...I will definitely check into it...We have an appointment to leave the car in the morning with Jeep repair services..but I will check this out..asap...Thanks again.

Your Jeep electric window regulator problem may be related to the switches. If you can, check to see what KIND of switches you have in the doors. Do you have the old fashioned ones made of mechanical snap switches, or do you have a new version made of elastomer (rubber like) with conductive domes.

The old type are easy to understand. These were merely mechanical snap swithes with electrical contacts that handle the motor currents directly.

When I left the industry a few years ago, the switch supplier was supplying a new type of switch (to Jeep) for the mirror controls with the vision that if these worked, this new technology would be applied to other controls. These new switches were made of conductive strips and a conductive tipped "rubber like" pushbutton. These did not handle the motor currents, but were read by the engine controller (computer). When "open" the circuit resistance was almost infinite, or "high resitance", When the button was depresed, the switch circuit had much less resistance and would be read as "low resistance" or closed. A relay either mechanical or electronic would be actuated (by the computer) to send current to the window regulator when a "low' condition was detected.

A problem developed for the mirrow controls. Jeep wanted the mirror switch shipped with the left side switch held down. When the switch was shipped in that position, Jeep could eliminate one step in their quality checks. However, if the door supplier shipped the door cross country (particularily across the hot southwestern desert) to Jeep's assembly plant with a switch held down (closed), it would stick and not release when the switch was toggled from left to right mirrow. That problem was handled in software. The computer was programmed such that if it found both left and right circuits "low' (closed), it assumed the left switch was stuck and operated the right mirror!

I left the industry before this problem was solved and don't know the outcome. But I do know that these rubberoid type of switches had a potential for sticking, and this can cause weird problems. Hopefully, this problem never made it into the window regulator circuits. I mention this as a possibility.

Back to the problem of a window suddently operating. This may be due to the switch location on the door. A poorly located switch can be inadvertenly operated by the occupant's knee or arm without the occupant having knowledge of such. I had a problem with GM's early Citation/Phoenix cars in that if my knee rested against the door, it could push and hold the window swtich handle in the up position. When so held, the regulator motor may burn out and/or a door fire result.

very informative jemdandy...you mention the mirror controls...and I have to say, that I had forgotten, that last month, the mirror on the left side of our Jeep stopped working!! The control is like you said, made of a rubber type control button. We haven't done anything with it as of yet, just out of pure disgust and added expense of so many other stupid things going on the car, and I had to laugh when I read what you wrote. As far as the window...we had the 'regulator cable' I think that's what they called it...replaced today..we had no choice, because we use this car all the time, and had to go ahead with the repair. It cost us $4l2.00...not as much as the motor repair ($700) on the driver's side window..but a heafty amount none the less.. While they had it, they informed us that they took care of a secondary radiator fan that was on a recall!! As I've said before, I am so disappointed with this car...I guess I should have stuck to leasing, where you turn it in after the 3 yr period and just get a new one...with no headaches to deal with. Which brings to mind that one of the Jeeps that we had leased, started having electrical problems after a few months..One of which was the horn, which stopped working after about a year. We brought it in, to their repair, and they were charging us $375. My DH got so angry over the bill and why such a thing should happen on the HORN of all things...The Service Rep told us that We probably went over a PUDDLE and shorted it out...The next day, I was watching an ad for Jeep, which showed a Jeep going over shallow rivers, mountainous terrains and said it was practically invincible...Well I called the Main Headquarters and told them our story...and said How can you explain to me going over a Puddle would cause the Horn to short out...when you advertise this car as Invincible??? They said they would take into considerations what happened..and decide what action to take...I hung up the phone, picked it up again to make another call, and they had not hung up the phone on their end...and I overheard them discussing what I said, and saying...WOW she's right...we show it as being practically invincible...and she was told the horn shorted out over a puddle...how can we tell someone that...Well...long story short...They refunded me The Entire amount for the repair...All I can say is you...Live & Learn..

Slinky:

you mentioned a problem with the horn circuit. I have a Jeep Cherokee, an old one. It's a '92 and has seen 14 winters of road salt. A few years ago, my horn stopped working. I found that it was due to an open circuit in the wiring harness.

All of the circuits of the front electrical items, headlamps, running lights, fog lamps, and signal lamp are conected to the main body harness through a connector block that is located in front of the air box and to the side of the headlamp assembly in the front fender near the radiator. It is not a weather sealed connector, but an ordinary one. Corrosion had ruined the horn circuit conections. I tried to find an replacement connector, possibly the entire front wiring assenbly, but could not. I fixed the problem by removing the two horn wires (one going to the horns and one to the body harness), and attached a pair of connectors that were more weather resistant. A label was added (HORN) to these wires to remind me (or anyone else) what these are.

This repair was made 5 years ago and is still good.

Slinky, if your looking for help with your Jeep stop reading, because after feeling like I have been called a criminal for trying to earn a living, by providing a good service, I'm not inclined to hand out much of my time in the way of a freebe for you. But I am inclined to write the following, take it at it's face value.

Real techs don't damage a car to make you have to come back to get something else fixed. Heck it's hard enough to do the work and get it right, let alone how much effort it would take to set something else up to fail. If you really think someone operates that way, then you shouldn't be taking your car there in the first place. According to your own post, you didn't use the windows much in the first couple of years. I'll bet it never crossed your mind that not using them is as likely to cause problems, such as corrosion of moving parts, pivot points, and pullies etc.in the mechanism as anything. No of course not, it's much easier to blame your troubles on someone else, especially if they aren't there to defend themselves.

Was the service writer silly to talk about the horn going bad as you described? Yea he/she was. BUT, going off road causes things to break that will need fixed. Real off roading drivers know this, understand and accept this as part of the expense they will incur for "having fun". If you want to take your Jeep through a couple feet of water, go ahead, it will do it. The moment you get back you should be draining, cleaning and refilling the differentials, and maybe even the transmission, and transfer case. Plus a number of other items should be opened up and cleaned, then get ready to do it all again next week. Plus the problems that occur do to this type of use/abuse have nothing to do with any warranty, fair, honest people know and respect this. If you are not technically gifted enough to do this yourself, then you will either have to pay someone else that is, or else stay on the roads and out of the woods. BTW I know you did not say you went off road, but you used the off road advertisement as your defense that the horn should not have failed. Shame on them for letting you get away with it, but then again it's Chryslers (or the dealers) dollar they spent, and they didn't have to deal with you one moment more for making Chrysler(or the dealer) spend it. Their giving away the store is an effective way to get rid of a problem (you), that the cost for which simply gets passed onto the other customers. Go ahead and believe you were entiteled if you wish. In the end, look at how you treated them, displayed right here in print. I hope someone returns the favor to you, as you have them. Then lets see what you have to say about it.

You try and make the argument that leasing every three years, and always driving new is better than keeping and maintianing a car for ten to fifteen (or more) years. There are others on this board that understand the difference in the amount of money that gets spent leasing cars, compared to what gets spent with long term ownership. I'll simply say, the total cost of operation per mile decreases each year you own a car, until you get well into the "teens". Even then as the cost per mile starts to rise, the smart money has saved ton's over someone that always leased and driven new during the same period of time.

People often complain that they can't find a good shop or tech. People that abuse the auto repair industry, and the people in it as is demonstrated by the attitude in slinky's thread play a significant role in chasing many of the good people out. We can only apologize so much for having to turn a profit so that we can invest in the tools, training, equipment, and our people so that we can stay up to date and even be there to provide the service that people need for their cars.

Slinky, if your still reading. Buy new, or lease if you prefer every two or three years. That way you won't show up at my shop, or any of my contemporaries and have the chance to call us thieves (criminals) for trying to be there to solve your vehicle problems.

Very Testy aren't we...There is an Old Saying...'Those Who LOUDLY EXCUSE THEMSELVES >> ACCUSES THEMSELVES' Take it for what it's worth... I'm sure, it doesn't apply to you...So, then you are one of the 'rare' individuals out there, that YES, do an honest, and dam good job at repairing automobiles. so I'll Try to EXCUSE AND IGNORE >> YOUR ATTITUDE.... Another > being my Dad, who owned his own auto repair shop, and gave 110% to his customers because he always felt that when someone put their faith and trust in him to do a repair that they had NO KNOWLEDGE of he Respected That and provided The Best that was expected of Him ..... I'm afraid, that his breed is far and few between, except maybe you. You don't have to be Insulting To Me, to blow off steam to defend what you do. I Get the feeling, You've been down this road before ... I know there ARE those of you who do an honest job, but I'm afraid, that there have been too many other bad apples in the bunch, that ruin it for the rest. Over the years, just having discussions on this very topic with guys in the business, gives you something to think about... Funny that you should say real techs don't ruin a car to get you back...I watched a local report showing just such a thing happening ... in several Auto Repair Shops, when confronted, the bottom line...they have to fill a 'quota'...so, does it make you wonder, does it make you jaded...do you feel Vulnerable when you bring in your fairly new car, for some minor repair, and shortly after, there will be a succession of minor repairs to follow to, the answer is, YES!
As far as the 'horn' going on my Jeeps, that car, had numerous electrical problems,just a couple of months into the lease, and then the horn..and NO not from off road driving...just plain normal use...so it was very frustrating for me to hear that maybe I had gone over a puddle that shorted it out...and then handed that bill...As far as my complaining...YES, I did, out of pure FRUSTRATION, that a New car should continue to have numerous problems. As far as you saying that > I WAS THE PROBLEM>>> How POMPUS!! Thank YOu...I'm glad to know that is how YOU would deal with a Client who might have such a complaint:! With your 'Winning' attitude, it makes me feel so confident, that YOU are in control of a situation...that I have NO Knowledge of. Please...ALL I EXPECT, after Plunking down Hard Earned Money on a car, that will lose it's value as I drive off on day 1, to at least get A Fair Money's Worth, from the Car Company, ALL who Represent it and from You, who Provide a Service,that I have put my trust and faith in your abbility to do an Honest Job. in

You call me testy? :) That rant was like a four year olds temper tantrum. JMHO. We all abuse the printed language to different degree's. Heck I know typo's, missspelled words, run on sentences and all kinds of issues make my writings not come across exactly as what I am trying to say would if we were talking. But dang try and make some sentences, and maybe a even paragraph or two so that we can follow what you are trying to say, OK?

First, you don't have to do anything, whether I ask you to or not. My attitude is just fine, you are not and never will be my customer so I don't owe you the right to "always be right" no matter what. I get to tell it exactly like I see it here, and maybe someone else that reads this will start to understand what the person that is about to try and make a problem he/she has with a car go away is talking about, and what it takes to do it.

I'll tell you a little secret. Anyone that truly preaches that the customer is always right, to their customers is lying to them. Now a business can take their employee's and preach this "attitude" from a service point of view, and that has merit. But to cart blanche, say you, the customer is always right is in fact a bold faced lie. Here I don't have to lie, and tell someone they are right when I think that they are not. Get used to it, because that will never change. You want information, you'll get it, with brutal honesty.

Now you talk about your father being a shop owner. How many typical shop owners would you like to see me claim he was like, without ever meeting him, talking to him, or seeing how he worked himself, or how he treated his employee's? Would it bother you, "IF" someone that did go to his shop, incorrectly accused him of actions similar to what you did the dealership? Would you stand idly by if that happened, or would you speak up and question their statement? I would question their statement, exactly as I have done here with you and I don't know your father. But would you?

The public has been brainwashed to think that newer is always better, and getting a car repaired is a terrible thing to have to do so you might as well trade it in on a new one. Believe that if you choose, or open your eyes a little wider and see the whole picture.

Now do things break/happen when a car is in for a repair? Sure they do, why would it be a suprise that pieces that are aging/wearing will need repaired/replaced when discovered during another service? Any competent technician, that sees a part fail or break during any other service will report this to the owner of the vehicle. We are not talking about intentionally breaking something, we are not talking about negligently doing that either. Stuff happens, thats the way the world is, we all have to deal with it. I'll tell you exactly how I deal with a situation that arrises in one of these events. I contact the customer and tell them what happened, or what I discovered. If I broke it by accident, it's on me. If it failed because it simply could not/would not survive the service that was being performed, then it simply needs to be added to the estimate as part of the "stuff happens" that this world throws at us. If, the customer would act as you say you did in your posts. I would go ahead and take care of it at my expense, but there would be a cost that has to get passed onto all of my other customers to do so. In thier best interest I have to decide do I want to be at risk of possibly passing other costs like this onto them, or would it be better to simply remove a customer that does not understand what fair really means from my active list? You see the customer can always be right, but they can also not always be fair. Remember it takes both sides to agree as to what fair really is. When someone fails to be fair, they have had their last visit at my shop, and that's my choice.

John...I won't even comment on the 'critique' of my sentence structure. The fact that you even go there, is small and childish.. Ranting, yes, I feel, that if someone comes here to either ask for advice, help, or to just blow off steam, they are expecting an exchange of ideas, and opinions. You chose to look at my comments as a personal attack on You! Get over it, Not Everyone is like You... If there is an individual, who finds fault with what a person has to say here, it can and should be expressed in a respectful way. This can and should be done, even if there is a strong difference of opinion, including anger. However, rather than take the Higher Ground, and respectfully enlighten me on how wrong I was for my feelings, and set the record straight, that YOU do not operate that way... NO, you chose to attack me. I see you are very knowledgeable in your field, and I respect that. You could have been far more helpful to me, however, you chose to treat me, as you did, unfairly. Rather than come here to help someone, Right or Wrong... You would rather Impress.

gemdandy..Nice work on the horn. That's alot of rock salt, and I can understand the corrosion. The jeep that had the horn problem, was a '99. We had it only a few months, when it started having many electrical problems..switches, lights, fuses, etc., then the horn. I only used that car to go back and forth to work each day. It was a smooth 4 mile round trip! I like what you did with the HORN label...something my husband would do too! Thanks again for your imput.

Slinky, you said "If there is an individual, who finds fault with what a person has to say here, it can and should be expressed in a respectful way. "

I did that, right from the start. I told you don't read my post if your looking for help. To which you made that reply about excuses, and accuses. Seems you cannot live up to your own advice.

BTW. You failed to answer any of these questions, which are aimed at making you examine how you would feel if someone treated your father, the way you treated that dealer.

Here they are again.

Now you talk about your father being a shop owner. How many typical shop owners would you like to see me claim he was like, without ever meeting him, talking to him, or seeing how he worked himself, or how he treated his employee's? Would it bother you, "IF" someone that did go to his shop, incorrectly accused him of actions similar to what you did the dealership? Would you stand idly by if that happened, or would you speak up and question their statement? I would question their statement, exactly as I have done here with you and I don't know your father. But would you?

You have it wrong...I did not go to the dealership and accuse them of doing something to my car. I was expressing my feelings here, on how I FELT. I stated that it made me sceptical, and wondered IF anything was done by them, after having to return repeatedly, soon after a repair. I did NOT accuse them PERSONALLY. Without, 'flat out' knowledge, I would not do so.. I only contacted Jeep Headquarters, after having received the bill for my horn. I issued a complaint as to what I was told. I did not accuse anyone there.
Yes, I would be PO'd if someone outright accused my father of doing such a thing, but that's life, and it happens.. It's also Human Nature. Like I said, I came here for advice and to blow off steam..not to be put on trial, and burned at the stake!
PS..my father left the business after two years. He retuned to college and obtained a Degree in Aerospace Engineering.

So your dad quit the auto repair industry, and went to school for aerospace engineering? That is what I wanted to do coming out of high school, aerospace engineering. I was on the doorstep to the Naval Academy in a bid to do just that, but fell short of my dream. I ended up becoming a mechanic because it was something I could do and figured I'd work a little while and then work my way through school. Only I never managed to make enough money to put anything aside in order to get to go back to school, got married, kid came along, and here I am in 2006 still working as a tech albeit self-employed.

As far as me being "down this road before" when it comes to me attacking predujuices against my feild, you can be assured that I have been. I can't begin to tell you how many times a "customer" looked down their nose at me because I was fixing cars for a living, and their attitude showed right away that they felt for me to be doing this I either had to be dumb, or a crook, or you go ahead and fill in the degrading label as you choose. Many times it made me want to quit fixing cars, and physically throw them and their POS out the door. I'll bet your dad had similar feelings. The one problem though that I see reguarding your dads automotive repair credentials is about how you said he was only in this for two years. Many people try and start their own shop with little or no real experience, or training. That is one of the problems in this industry that has held pricing in this feild well below where it SHOULD be, especially if you compare what I(we) have to do to almost any other SKILLED LABOR field.

When you wrote this "Now I figure with the rates higher in the NE...we should EXPECT to pay a higher charge for this service!! It's criminal." You pushed the button that got me on your case. My accountant told me just last month, with the investment that I have to provide the services that I do, and the costs that I am faced with to continue to upgrade tools and equipment to stay up to date, any other equivelent field would be charging over $120/hr with at least a 50% gross profit margin on the parts. That would work out to an average of right about $200/hr Gross Profit. Now that number is a little higher than industry average, first of all because I am one of a very few techs that specializes in engine performance, emission controls, and all vehicle electronics and has experience on just about everything on the street. Plus I have the mechanical experience that allows me to take on virtually anything, bumper to bumper. But one more factor, I also work by myself, which means the entire cost of the operation weighs squarely on the work what I produce.

What this all means is that for me to work at full potential I would easily have to outprice all of my "competition" by more than 2 to 1, and anyone then that would compare prices normally would take the stance where you did earlier and use the word "criminal". That's pretty unfair, being called criminal because they don't understand the costs we are incurring to try and provide the best service that we can. Now in trying to keep that reputation from happening, the only thing that I can do is first, underprice, and second I have to choose what I am going to buy and which cars and systems I will no longer work on. Even though physically I have the means, without electronic support (O.E. scan tools) I have to turn ever more cars away. Right now if you by a 2007 Chrysler product, (Plus some 2004's and on up in numbers through 2007) I don't have the equipment that I truly need to function at the same level that the dealer does. Worse than that is I don't see where the $10,000 that I will need to purchase this equipment will come from, especially when I have the same problem to deal with multiplied by each manufacturer. Ten years ago, I had a single scan tool and I could do everything that showed up at my door. The cost for that tool was $3000 and change. That same expense today is over $250,000 for just that kind of equipment. That is an expense that we didn't have ten years ago, and one that virtually every shop out there is not making. Do you want to know just how big a quarter million dollars is compared to my shop? That amount is more than my shops total gross sales for a year. That amount is more than every tool and piece of equipment that I have collected over the last thrity years. Plus even if I hit the lottery and bought this stuff, it's not like buying a house and is equity. It's all depreciating assets. Ten/twelve years later the best expectation I can have is that they may still have occasional use (one or two times a year), and that I will be able to afford whatever their replacements end up being. After that, they are dust collectors, a quarter million dollars worth of garbage can fillers.

That's the reality of the field I am in. One where we get no vacations, I'm always spending every available dime on something for the shop. We have nothing saved for retirement, same reason. Well, let me clarify, I have about $3000 in an IRA from a previous employment and we will have social security, plus I could continue to work at some level until......

So yea I take offense when I see a post like yours. But instead of getting angry, and just blowing it off, I take and grab the chance to help people get a better glimpse of exactly what it takes for their corner garage to be there. Now granted we are not all created equal, we have few if any standards (something I would like to change). If your dad retired from aerospace tomorrow, and wanted to open a shop we don't have anything inside this industry to make him prove that he is actually trained and qualified to do so. (That's something else I would like to change but I know it's beyond my abilities)

Now, you wanted help with your Jeep. When you figure out what I am actually saying, you will find exactly what help I have provided. Granted it's not what you thought you were looking for, and it may take some time to understand it fully. But it's there.

Me? I have to head to the shop today, I have a couple cars that I can knock out, and make more space on the schedule tomorrow for something else. If I was actually priced correctly, I would not have to work seven days a week. But If I was priced correctly for what it costs me for what I actually provide, I'd only ever get the nightmare cars that "no one else can fix". That would put me out of business in a month.

**What gives??? Can my DH get the part to repair it on his own, or is this a MYSTERY Fix...and we will have to bring it in?**

This is why I repair things myself if I can. Costs a bloody fortune to pay someone to do things. If DH is up to it, I'd suggest purchasing the factory shop manual(s) for your jeep and start studying. Not the cheep $15 DIY books at the store. They'll just tell you enough to get you into trouble. Buy the real deal. Should cost something over $100. If some of these little things that come up looks like something you can handle, have at it. My second recomendation would be to stay away from dealerships for anything but warranty repairs. They are often times the most expensive place in town to have a car fixed.

Some of these problems have aftermarket solutions that are pretty cheep compared to buying factory parts. For example, if you have one bad door lock actuater, the OEM part from the dealership might be $150. Look in an aftermart book and you might find a set of 4 with switches, relays and wiring for $100. Last year I needed a rear y-pipe and two mufflers for my car. The least expensive place I called was one that I usually take my car when it needs something I can't or don't want to deal with myself. $600. Other places wanted to charge up to $1000. Bought brand new reproduction parts out of a catalog and installed them myself for around $220. Easy to do. 2 bolts from the y-pipe to the catalytic converter, 3 hanger bolts, three muffler clamps and it was done. Keep in mind that I also have floor jacks a fair amount of hand tools, and an air compressor.

There's no way I'd have spent $700 to fix a window I hardly ever used. I'd have removed the door panel, done whatever I had to do to get the window up, fasten a piece of wood in it somehow to keep it up if that's what it took, and forget about it till I found a reasonable solution. I did this on my Dodge once as a temporary fix till the new regulator came in. Cost me $120 for the part at the dealership. In that case, that was the cheep easy route. The thing that killed me about that one was I broke it myself. Hit the down button when it had ice on it. Needed an injector one time. Dealership price, $128 for 1. CarQwest price, $50. Got to check out your options before you do things. Then you won't feel so bad about the cost.

I don't think anyone has sabotaged your vehicle. I don't think anyone's ripping you off either. I do think you've been taking the most expensive route you can go to repair...aside from trying to fix it yourself, getting in over your head and breaking other things in the process, then taking it to the most expensive place in town to repair.

Cars aren't cheep to buy or maintain. Never are, never were. jmo

Glad to see you back john g :^)

John...I can respect and appreciate all that you are up against on a daily basis. I do realize nowadays, anyone who's running their own business , is struggeling with the constant battle to 'stay alive'. It's not an easy life, and in most cases, where there is success, the great price to pay, is sacrifice. The average individual, would not have the guts or courage to deal with it. I also feel you have to love what you do, otherwise, that great determination wouldn't exist. So, my hat's off to you. Yes, my father left the business to follow the road to 'his dream', from when he was a kid as well. He was brutally determined at whatever he set his mind to, sometimes to a fault. It was,however, a long, rough road for me and my mother. You are right though, he has commented on the difference of auto technology today, and what it takes, compared to when he first started. Well...anyway, I hear all you are saying, at what you are up against..and I can understand, just hearing from someone like me, 'whining'...just spins your Wheels, and rightly so, but then again, don't get so testy,
I'm a Woman. :) ..and it's Human Nature!!

gary...sorry I didn't respond to your post sooner...Yes, I know there are manuals. However, the reason 'I' was on here asking the questions, and not my husband, is because he's is NOT inclined to do so. He will 'tinker' and fix something minor, but to really delve into something major, he won't go there. I guess, 'I' was the one looking to save a buck, and wanted see if it were truly something that could be done by him. I totally agree, that by bringing it to the dealership for repair, you pay the highest price. At the time the first window went, we had just moved, and didn't have a good source to bring it to. This time around, now that we are back in the NE, the guy we used to go to, is no longer there. So, who do we go to > the dealership. I know this will P/O john...but, everyone you talk to, will tell you, 'it's Not the parts that are costly, it's the labor'..and john...if you're reading this, I understand why.
Someone here, even suggested that we get the part that was necessary, and then bring it to a shop for them to install ..honestly, I don't know if Any shop would do such a thing. Well, I really didn't expect to hit so many 'raw nerves' here, with my questions and feelings. Hopefully, we can just put this to rest.

I didn't expect a response. Just offering what I consider cost reducing solutions that I use myself. Since DH doesn't want to do this kind of thing himself, that pretty much limits your options to finding a shop you trust and stocking up on duct tape ; ) I used to be a mechanic long ago and kind of enjoy doing things myself where the technology hasn't gone to far past me. It's not for everyone.

The electric window works by having a cable (like the brake cable on a pushbike) being wound out by an electric motor and pushing up the window.

_Everything_ rusts really quickly in Florida.

By not using the window it is actually _more_ likely to fail.