Personally I think this is a really interesting discussion. I am an engineer at Honda R&D near Columbus, OH. At my location, there are over a thousand white collar workers, mostly technical. Within a hundred mile radius of me, there are a 4 Honda assembly plants, employing around 10,000 people. At other sites in the US and Canada, there are probably another 15,000 workers. Each of these plants is turning out thousands of new Hondas per day. Nearly every Honda/Acura sold in the US (by volume) is made in the US. The engines, transmissions, every major component. Furthermore, Honda actually *exports* cars from the US, something that the Big 3 can barely talk about. Sure, there are niche cars like the S2000 roadster that are 100% Japanese, but that is a tiny part of our market. I think these are pretty impressive numbers, especially if you consider that Honda is only something like the 7th largest market share in the US. Its been here since 1979, I'd wager that in those 27 years Honda has contributed significantly to Americans and their way of life. There are a lot of secure $25/hr plus full benefits jobs available in Ohio because of Honda. The US auto industry lost their way in the oil crises. They haven't been able to turn it around since then. They concentrate too much on short-sighted markets like giant fuel-guzzling SUVs. Its not that the Big 3 makes bad cars, its that they make cars that aren't in demand. Compare a Focus to a Civic. A Taurus to an Accord. Sure, those Fords might last 200k miles, but I'd much rather spend that time in a nice Accord than a hard plastic Taurus. I would rather support the thousands of American workers who build Hondas than support a few suits in Detroit and drive a Mexican Dodge. That said, my garage: 1980 Lawn Boy 7229 1996 Stihl trimmer 1997 Honda Accord (shocking, right?) 2002 Triumph Speed Triple (mc) 1976 Honda CB400F (mc) 1976 Suzuki GT550 2-stroke (mc) 1948 Johnson Sea Horse (outboard) 1949 Evinrude Zephyr (outboard)

My mother's caregiver just put E85 in my 2012 Toyota Camry. About 3 days ago. I'm brand new to this and have been studying online. Your Forum discussion has put my mind at ease. I put 5 gallons of regular unleaded in it to top it off. I will not try to burn it off over the next three or four hundred miles. It does feel like the power has increased, because with the traction control off I can smoke the tires with the V6 on the front wheel drive. I see this discussion it's over 7 years old. But it sure is helping me today thanks you guys

My bet is, if we had to do it again, we could probably have paid about $500 less, if we'd really pushed. [snip] I wish people could just be totally honest and we wouldn't have to play these games. Good ol' hindsight -- always 20/20! :-) Seriously, yes, you probably could have done better. But that likely would have taken far more time and information than you could spend. I know the insides don't really matter.......but this thing was like new inside. I hope the engine, etc. is the same way! The insides do matter. First, it's most of what you see when you're in the car. Second, if the inside was well-cared-for, the rest of the car should have been, too. But, in the future, you really should have a prospective used car examined by a mechanic you trust to make sure you're getting the deal you think you are. I have another question for you. I'm seeing some really low-priced cars that only have something like 25,000 miles on them. Can we read anything into that? Why so cheap?? The market for most used cars has softened considerably. Incentives on new cars (0% financing, rebates) and cheap leases made the price differences between used and new cars marginal and so people bought or leased new cars. With the continual incentives for new vehicls, used cars flooded the market. Speaking of flooding, there undoubtedly will be a bunch of cars from Katrina-stricken areas which some unscrupulous people will attempt to fix and sell off with a -- er, washed -- title. Those cars will be cheap to keep them moving. Also, most of these cars had a big yellow sign on them that said "No hassle pricing". To me, that means they just don't want to deal. What does it usually mean?? I think that statement is just plain silly. Are we stupid or what?? Are we supposed to think "Oh, how nice! We can just pay the asking price and have no hassles!" hahaha (We're stupid, but not that stupid) Lots of people enjoy haggling for a car as much as they enjoy getting root canal. Personally, I would venture that most of Saturn's success comes from their no-hassle, we're-all-friends-here demeanor, because it certainly isn't the cars or the great deals that keep people coming back. "No hassle" is an attempt to bring the price down some from full list to let buyers think they're getting a deal -- which they are, without the usual confrontational aspects of negotiationg; just not as much as possible. It should also be a little cheaper for the dealership because they don't have to burden their sales reps with so much dead time spent "speaking to the manager" -- they can be out selling cars. You'll notice that no one offers "no hassle" trade-ins (not even Saturn). Besides, how many things do you buy for which you actually negotiate? Groceries? Patio furniture? Insurance? Mortgages? In a way, "no-hassle" puts car-buying on the order of buying something in a department store. Don't like the price? Don't buy. I guess I was naive in thinking that it was safer to buy a used car from a reputable dealer. Am I totally wrong on that? The dealer has been nothing but honest and above-board with me on a regular basis. I've even taken my Odyssey in for weird things I've noticed, and they've checked it, and said nothing was wrong, when they could have ripped me off (like the volvo dealer used to). Maybe I should only feel good about buying their used cars, if they are precertified? Some manufacturers put limits on the cars they will sell "precertified" -- like how old the car is, how many miles it has,.... Just because a car is not certified does not mean it's bad -- though I would think less of a two- or three-year-old Civic sold by a Honda dealer that wasn't certified because that certification is worth more to the dealer. And the salesman said he couldn't do any dealing at all on the warranty....when we asked it to be included in our price. Of course, we just lowered what we wanted to give for the car, but have you heard of that before....that they don't include those in "the deal"? Well, maybe he couldn't deal on the warranty. But I'll bet someone at the dealership could. I've done it (and still refused the warranty). And I could see why the dealer would not be tripping over himself to swallow the cost of a "$1200" warranty in the price of an $8,000 car. I hate buying cars.......new or used. The reality of everything is just so variable! You've just provided Reason #16 why people like "no-hassle" pricing. :-) Buying a car anymore is a considerable investment. We all want to make sure we get it right. Having to haggle over the price when you don't know the real cost makes it that much more difficult.

First time back on line in a long while. Finally bought a new computer (Sony Vaio) Hopefully I didn't miss too much! I don't particularly pay too much attention to CR, although sometimes I find myself browsing through their magazines while shopping around at the store just out of curiosity. Their good and bad bets are pretty much the same as they were in previous years. I find Carsurvey.com and Epinions.com to be more valuable. I have a 1996 Honda Accord with the 4-cylinder, 223,000 miles and just keeps on trucking. I've had to service it as I would with any other car, but it's never given me any unexpected problems on the road or failed to start one morning. The engine still retains most of it's original major components (such as the alternator, AC compressor, starter, PS pump, master cylinder, etc.) which is truly amazing in my opinion. I am a strong believer in preventive maintenance and upkeep, and I'm sure that has had something to do with my car's reliability... but I've definitely only had to do the very basics to keep it so. Also have a 2001 Pontiac Trans Am, which CR listed as unreliable. Currently have 56,000 miles and haven't done squat to it except change the oil/filters, brakes, tires and light bulbs. Absolutely nothing else. Had a pretty good experience with a 97 Mercury Cougar also(V8 model) The transmission and intake manifold were the only weak links in this otherwise solid car...but my transmission and manifold had already been replaced before I bought the car used with 90,000 miles. Sold it with a little over 150,000 miles.