allison0704 writes: We do need a big home. It's not huge, only about 6K sf

Just out of curiosity, what do you consider "huge"? That's over three times the size of the house we built, which seems plenty large to us since we came from a 917sf house. :-)

I do wish we'd made a few areas larger. I wish we'd made the garage a 2.5 car garage rather than 2 stalls. The extra width would be nice for the kind of yard crap that piles up. Eventually I'd like to build a detached barn on the property as well, so that problem will be fixed then I hope.

I wish we'd made the entry hall that joins the garage and house, and that contains our front entry door, deeper. I'd like to build a bench for taking off / putting on shoes, and it's going to be a bit tight when I do.

I wish we'd found a way to have a pantry off the kitchen, though the one in the basement is okay. If we'd made the house a bit wider, and so the (currently dead) space between garage and house narrower, we might've found the space.

And I wish I'd made my attached workshop on the back of the garage at least 8 feet longer.

But for the most part, ~1800sf is plenty big for the three of us and our cats. I like that we can easily heat the downstairs with a small woodstove.

--Steve

I was raised in a 6k sf English Tudor, so to me, that's normal. We raised three children in a 2800sf over 20 years it was expanded to approx 3400sf. We had a second home in CO that was 5K sf. So to answer your question, at around 8K it's starting to be "too big" for me. The problem I have personally with homes that size is they start loosing the "comfortable" feeling. They become harder to decorator for cozy and can start to loose character because they are getting so big and either the architect, homeowner or decorator didn't know WTH they were doing. lol But I have seen extra-large homes I could settle into easily - Ted Turner's ranch, for example....without good ol' Ted. It takes a LOT of money and style to do big well!

Here is a link that might be useful: Ted Turner's Ranch

suec~ the 3000+sf one bedroom house is what we wanted! When we decided to build again, that was exactly what we told the architect! We designed every room for the way WE live,(early 50's,kids grown but come and go ~) but also had to plan for resale eventully. Thus the 3 additional upstairs bedrooms. We also have a 1200sf attic on the 2nd floor that could easily be made into a 2nd master for someone else.

Our first floor ended up being about 3500sf upstairs 1400, we have zoned heating and air, so when no one is here it costs little and takes little care.

I love to entertain and we host most all holiday dinners. I wouldn't change a thing. (we just moved in 4 weeks ago!)

Thanks for the reply, allison. It certainly is all about what one is comfortable with. I suppose the problem with the term "huge" is that it implies criticism, as in, "too large".

Personally, I'm a fan of building as large as it needs to be, and no larger, whatever that size may be for each person. :)

--Steve

Sorry if that was implied. I was only speaking for myself.

fyi, I would have used gargantuan to criticize. ; )

Sorry if that was implied. I was only speaking for myself.

Oh no, I didn't mean that you were implying it. I just sometimes see defensiveness from people who are told that their houses are "huge". I was once told that my then ~2300sf house was "huge", and was taken aback, but didn't take it as criticism. I'm guessing it's sometimes taken that way though.

fyi, I would have used gargantuan to criticize. ; )

"Colossal" works too. :-)

--Steve

Our house is right about 3500sf. It's just the three of us which includes my son who will be out on his own in one or two years. We came from a stifling 1400sf house and I had plenty of time in that house to figure out what would be comfortable to us.

The funny thing is that, for fun, I've been playing around with new house plans and no matter what my configuration is, I always come up with around 3200-3600sf.

We don't have any formal rooms so all our rooms are used daily including the guest room. It doubles as an exercise room with an elliptical machine. When DS moves out, his room is going to be the exercise room and we'll have a dedicated guest room. I work at home so I have to have an office, DH is a musician and the 500sf bonus room over the garage is his music room/office.

And before the McMansion bashing ensues (hope I'm not triggering it!), if you can afford it and feel more comfortable in a large (or gargantuan!) house, then go for it. I don't buy the "green" argument about building small. A huge house can still be efficient and environmentally sensitive. IMO people who live in small houses and have the "holier-than-thou" attitude about people living in big houses are just showing their envy masked by altruism.

house can still be efficient

True! The utility bills for our new home are the same as our last (smaller) home.

One of the things we have found is that when the children were 2-15 we needed more space for the "stuff". Now that they are 16 and 18 they need more space outside for their cars/motor cycles/etc. and they have less interest in the "stuff" that is inside the house. Within the next couple of years we hope they are in college, working, married...etc. and then we really will need less space. Just like we did when we first got married. With organization (and patience) we have lived comfortably in a 2000 sq. foot house with a bath and 1/2 (that was the most challenging). I would recommend that the children's rooms have enough space for a chair in their room so that they can do homework or have a private area to retreat...the area does not have to large (ours are 12X14 and 13x14), just their own. We could all do more with alot less "stuff"!

That makes total sense to me :)

sallen, the key is not being a pack rat :) We've moved a few times and that has helped with purging all the junk.

kelleng, there is a LOT of data the refutes your claim about green building. There's more too it than energy efficiency. I have no problem with larger houses, but there is a cost to large homes. Some localities even limit the size of your homes' total impervious footprint due to run-off issues (driveway, foundation, decking, proches, HVAC units, walkways, etc). EVERYTHING we do impacts the environment in some way. I spend a considerable amount of time doing outdoor activities and can see it all the time. Stormwater run-off is one of many things houses have impacta on. Not trying to be antagonistic, just trying to perhaps spark some food for thought.

To the OP, with the avg house being 2400 sq ft, you need a lot more than 3500 sq ft to reach McMansion level. If I wanted to spend more money on my house, I would add things like an inground heated pool with lap lane or full custom workout room with basketball court. A bigger house (more rooms) for us would just be wasted space. I sacrifice my basement for the plethora of workout equipment. My dream house would have a workout room with a view of a body of water but unless I win the lottery, that ain't happening :)

Here is a link that might be useful: Smaller house and

We live in a municipality where we must retain all runoff water on our property. No quibbles from me although this does take up quite a bit of our usable property. The square footage of our house makes no difference, just the footprint, in the grading. Everything is a tradeoff and one can only hope that sanity will prevail when the local rules are made and the property owner makes decisions.

That being said, we have worked and saved a long time for our new house. Sometimes I think it's too big but my children (who are grown, live out of state and are looking forward to family reunions and vacations in Florida) tell me it is just the right size. Downstairs we have a great room, large kitchen, large mudroom, guest bedroom with wheelchair accessible bath, office with full bath, and generous entry foyer. Upstairs we have 3 bedrooms, gameroom and 3 full baths. Althogether this amounts to about 4800 sf.

If and when it becomes necessary for mobility reasons we can live on the first floor. The second floor is zoned separately for heating and cooling and will only be activated when we have visitors. In addition to our own children we both have large extended families and enjoy visitors. Right now I'm thinking of the house as our old age home (first floor) with bed and breakfast (second floor) attached.

The important thing to remember, as so many people here are saying, is to think through your goals and what is important to you. You always need to work with whatever rules your municipality sets. You always need to work with your own sense of what is right and what you need.

My utilities are lower, too, about 30% less than my old 3600 ft house. Will be lower yet when we get our hotspring tied into the radiant floor system.

Oh, my 5500ft includes the finished walkout basement: in this area, if you can live in it [comfortably] you count it.

I said, "A huge house CAN still be efficient and environmentally sensitive." I didn't say they are.

Data has been compiled on average existing homes that were built with no thought to the environment. Your AVERAGE large house isn't going to be environmentally sensitive but it can be done with enough planning.

i have a good friend with a 10,500 sq ft house that is way too big. oversized rooms with no interest; large for the sake of being large w/5 bedrooms. that said, i have another friend with a 12K + sq ft house that feels warm and friendly and perfect. there are many rooms and they are scaled for the purpose for which they were intended. the 500 sq ft library adjoins an 800 sq ft office with a large, two sided partners' desk and seating area. the living room opens to the sun porch and the dining room is off of that with the kitchen (a new addition) just beyond. it was built in 1870 as a shore vacation home. there was no garage and our friends have added on to include a four car off the new kitchen.
each of the 14 bedrooms are generous in size yet still very comfortable. while the house is very large, nothing seems overdone or overwhelming ...well, ok, so not many people need or want a 14 bedroom home but they use it very well. truly one of the most magnificent homes i've ever had the pleasure of enjoying. my best friend lived there when we were growing up and got married there. family sold the house in 1990. as fate would have it we are friends with the current owners after having met them at a party four years ago.

forgive the rambling. forget size. it's about scale. and personally, i went through an entire decade reciting "less is more". well, sometimes it's not! :*D

In theory our house is too big for us (4000 sf, 2 adults, 2 cats), but when I try to figure out where I would cut if we were to build again I don't know where I would. If anything, I would want a larger pantry and laundry room. We only use 1 of the 4 bedrooms, but you can't very well build a 3000+ sf house with 1 bedroom, can you?

That's only 1,000 sf per occupant. Just be glad you don't have more cats (or more square footage). Just think of all the additional trouble the furry ones could get into. ;=)

We chose our house plan over 18 months ago, 4000 sq ft on two floors with a 1700 sq ft unfinished basement. 2 adults, 3 soon to be outdoor pets. Now, we have our first child on the way, so our 5 bedroom house will have one dedicated to a nursery and one to grandparents visiting. So we'll have two spare bedrooms and a dining room that get infrequent use. Our rooms are bigger than most, but that's to suit our lifestyle.

The basement will be nothing but frivilous space when it's finished (except for a workout room). A home theater and wine cellar with tasting room. Then a large open area that we have no definition for.

We're happy with the size, and don't think we built too big.

Allison,
you said someting that got my attetion - about moving to a cooler climate.
DH and I are trying to decide where to retire and it will be to a warmer state. What do you consider a "cooler" state?

Marthaelena, we're in central Alabama, so we get hot, humid summers. We had a summer house in CO, but don't enjoy winters there. DD1 went to college in San Francisco and has settled in the North Bay area. I would be happy there, but DH has his eyes set on Carmel, Carmel Valley or possibly the Monterey area. It will be 6-8 years (maybe less) before/if we move but he's already receiving RE agent emails of Carmel listings. Where it may be, we will rent a house for 3-6 months before buying to make sure we like the area.

When you go looking for a "warmer" state, just leave out those with high summer humidity. You won't like it!

Our house is 2500 sf. Plus a 1500 sf unfinished basement.

We moved into it from a 1000 sf ranch.

Our favorite room in the house is the bonus room over the garage. It's quiet, cozy and the smallest room in the house.

I love our house, the openess and all but sometimes the big rooms seem just too big and too loud with all of the hardwood for just the family.. It's great for entertaining though, which was a big consideration when we built.

"When you go looking for a "warmer" state, just leave out those with high summer humidity. You won't like it!"

I have to second this comment. I'm in Central TX and it gets extremely hot, which I can handle. It's the humidity that drives me and my hair indoors!

Alli - We lived in Monterey when I was 4-5yo and remember it vividly. That's where I would be headed if I could.

What a post. We're getting ready to re-build after a fire and have decided to build the same size house (1086 sq ft.) but use the rooms differently.

It's just dh, myself and my 10 year old son (older kids have already moved out). We raised all 3 kids in that little house.

We will have 3 bedrooms, a very small but efficient kitchen, smallish living room and a media room with the kitchen table somewhere between the LR, MR and kitchen. We live in So Calif. so we live outside ALOT and eat out there 6-9 months out of the year. The living room wall will be made of folding glass doors with a deck just off of it making the space feel larger. We don't have basement here (bummer) but we will have a sizable attic of approx. 500 sq ft. that will house our storage items and utilities. The walls will be short enough that we can't change it to livable space later otherwise the property taxes increase.

All in all we're very happy with the smaller space. We'll begin working with a formal designer soon and I'm sure she will be able to find even more space savers for us.

"When you go looking for a "warmer" state, just leave out those with high summer humidity. You won't like it!"

I have to second this comment. I'm in Central TX and it gets extremely hot, which I can handle. It's the humidity that drives me and my hair indoors!

Unfortunately, most of the warm areas that don't have issues like humidity have been discovered long ago and are crowded and expensive. The homeless and down on their luck types tend to head there too, driving taxes up.

Unless you are wealthy enough to buy your own island, there is no perfect warm spot.

Allison,
Thanks a lot! I will show your comment to DH. I know he hates humidity.
We were thinking North/South carolina or San antonio / Austin, TX and we were leaning towards Austin but now maybe we need to reconsider.
One of my good friends is from California and she says is nice year round! We want to stay on the east to the center of the country.

kellyeng,
thanks for your comment.

Shelly,
I am not trying to hijack your post. I actually think it is interesting and need to know what everybody thinks, since we are going to build our "forever" home in about 4 to 5 years. DH retires in Dec 2014! This is a helpful post!

North Carolina would be my pick from your list. I'm a mountain girl myself.

I'll skip the island. See my comment above.

Muddypond,
Could you please list the areas that are warm and does not have high humidity?
Thanks

Here's a link with Average Relative Humidity across the country. Looks like AZ and CA have the lowest humidity.

Here is a link that might be useful: Average Relative Humidity

WOW! This has sparked alot more interest that I expected.

Our home to be built is 3000 sq ft on the main level and 2300 finished in the basement (if we finish it right away). My only concern is that I will have more to clean than my now 3000 sq ft total on 3 floors... :) I do think our new home will be energy efficient so I'm not as concerned about the heating/cooling aspect. I just hope I don't feel overwhelmed with more maintenance and cleaning...

We can totally live on the main level with 3 bedrooms and an office and no formal dining room (family of 4 with no pets). That is the plan with guest bedrooms and playroom in the basement when we want to finish that. None of the rooms on the main level are big -- they are adequate. We worked hard to keep sq footage down and can add to that with the finished basement.

Anyway, that's my two cents!

Kellyeng,
Thank you for the info.
Very helpful.

Another consideration...do you clean your own home or are you lucky enough to hire your home cleaned and your lawn taken care of? We are teachers. We do our own lawn, cleaning, etc. We do our own home maintenance. That's another reason I am content with my smaller home!

I've always done my own cleaning, but could afford a housekeeper. I just like doing it myself. We used to do our own yard, but DH had shoulder surgery right after we moved in, so I hired the company that takes care of the grounds for our businesses to come out. They only do what's around/up near the house.

We've kept them on, but with 4.5 acres, there is always something to do. Natural areas are hard work! We also fenced in our property ourselves with a Kentucky 4 Board fence (approved fencing by our POA - we live in a horse community). We're big DIYers even though we could pay someone else to do things.....there will come a day when we're older that we'll do that.

We have a lady come in to clean the house every week but we can/have cleaned the house (3500sf) ourselves many times with no problem and I run the vacuum at least twice a week myself to keep up with dog hair. I choose not to do the heavy cleaning because I'm self-employed and my time literally equals money and I want to spend my free time doing something I enjoy.

As far as the property goes, it's one acre and DH loves maintaining the yard himself although he travels quite a lot and when he's gone, we have a lawn service company take care of the basic stuff.

Big or small the key is usability. So often house are designed with no regard for actual livability. Doors bumping into cabinets, tiny toilet rooms where you have to dance around the fixture in order to close the door, washers and dryers with no space for loading and unloading, insufficient storage - it can be as if people and the space they need to live and utilize the home are an afterthought to the design. And this can happen just as easily in tiny bungalows as in houses whose square footage is better expressed in acreage. Sheer size is no indication of livability. Many small homes are beautifully and efficiently laid out to maximize functionality while there are some larger houses that seem to be nothing more than a collection of ill-proportioned spaces stretching on ad nauseam.

That said, however, it is important to keep in mind that everyone has different comfort levels. Some folks like tight and cozy and others prefer the freedom of large open interior spaces. It's all down to personal preference. What feels just right to one might feel alternately claustrophobic or vastly cold and expansive to others. That's the true beauty of building custom. As long as it feels right and there is enough room for everybody and everything and it all functions, then everything else is gravy.

I notice a lot of people build "generously" with the anticipation of a seasonal influx of guests (kids and grandkids for holidays kind of thing). Does this really happen?

I was a McMansion basher but I have come to admit that modern first world inhabitants live with more stuff and like the California Closets ads say, "Life, stuff, storage".

However kids used to spend a lot more time out doors and that's where they belong. Without all the electronic c##$ their bedrooms can be smaller.

Kellyeng I do not think that envy drives most of the negative 'large home' comments. I also do not think that a 4000 sf green home will outcompete at 2000 sf green home on green-ness. What is deeply unforunate is that there is an enormous stock of poorly constructed, very un-green homes at 3500+ sf that are 10 years old or less. These homes, many of which epitomize the design faults of McMansions, are probably going to become quite undesirable for people who can build green or rehab green. Electricity may cost a lot more in the future. The houses will move downmarket, and possibly be subdivided to keep utility costs in line with what a single family can afford.

Our planned empty nest home for rural SC is about 1300 sq ft, but will have a usable basement, which we may or may not finish. Our current home is just under 1600 sq ft, which was fine for raising our son, but a good amount of it never gets used- the living room and dining rooms, in particular. As we get older, there are less and less people to come and visit, since people in our families are dying off one by one. The added storage space of the basement, plus a good sized barn, should make the rest of the house very livable.

Big or small the key is usability.

I completely agree with this statement. Our new 2750 sq ft house 'lives larger' than our last one at 3100+, because of making sure the space we have is where we need it. People with larger houses exclaim about how 'large' our house is...I'm not sure why that is...I guess it's the house style (American Foursquare) or maybe the 9 ft ceilings on the main floor. Please be assured that nothing I'm sharing here is meant as criticism or said out of jealousy for those who build larger. It's just the most we could afford on our one income, which is a big priority for us.

We have 450 sq ft family room on our wish list...We planned for it when we built by organizing structure, wiring, etc. for the expansion, but not sure when that might happen. We could certainly use it, as our living room is 10 x 11 1/2 and a bit tight for the 10 of us, especially since the dogs (Lab and Lab-Shepherd X) think they are lap dogs! :-) We could also use a garage or basement for more climate-controlled storage.

The biggest regret, sizewise, was that we couldn't have gone 2 ft larger in both directions to fit in more closets for homeschool supplies, puzzles/games/books, and linen storage. When finances allow, we can add a garage or that family room, but not the closet space within the existing living area. I am thankful, though, that we did fit in a pantry, a great kitchen, and a sewing area. Built-ins make modest rooms more livable and efficient for us. We are still working on some of those.

I think that one day it will seem huge to us...But, hopefully, will often be full of visiting kids and grandkids. I am one who definitely planned the 'expandable' dining room for those special occasions when big crowds gather and wish to be around one table. It was always my mom's regret to not have a bigger dining space for such things, so it was a priority to me.

Our small 1248s.f. will be plenty for my wife and i + dogs and cats but storage is a problem. Plans for a small addition/breezeway plus a garage with overhead attic storage will help. Some friends down the road have an attic storage in their garage. A section of the attic floor is a hatch that they chain hoist their "stuff" on up to make life a little easier.

I agree that s.f. depends on your needs and layout. There is no "too big" or "too small" if it works for you and yours! Any home large or small can be made energy efficient if you spend the time incorporating it in to your build by research. It's pretty much all about whats covered up that you dont see that's important along with appliances and mechanicals.

Does this really happen?

The only rooms we don't use on a daily basis are the three guest rooms and one bathroom. Our children are DD/21, DS/23 and DD/25. If the girls were to stay in the same room/bed, then we only have one room we could have gotten away with not building (or used as storage instead of finishing). With two out of state, imo, we did not over-build and the rooms were needed/are used.

I am a bit late to this but I am amazed at how bit some of these houses are. I live in Asheville and if I were to build one of these houses I would have hippies protesting out front all the time. The first house my wife and I bought (about 3 years ago) was 1080 sqft 2 beds/2.5 baths and was more than enough for the two of us. Now we are building a house that we can have kids in and make more money on and basically all we did was add another bed room and a tiny bit more living space. This house is coming in at 1516 sqft and we both feel it's too big for us. I couldn't imagine buy things like hardwood floors for a 4000-6000 sqft house. Also, I tend to do the cleaning and I don't look forward to cleaning the house I have. How long does it take to do something dusting or vacuuming a house like this?

I'm a neat freak, so things are picked up. It just needs cleaning. I usually dust/bathrooms on Thursdays and vacuum on Fridays. Sometimes I do it all in one day. It takes me about 4-5 hours for a good cleaning of the entire house. I vacuum and dust under EVERYTHING. I don't understand my sister who never vacuums under beds or dressers.

We are empty nesters (52 yrs old) and built a 1920 sq ft. home with an open floor plan. It's just right for the 2 of us. I agree that you should build what works for you. We wanted a smaller floor plan with upscale features that met green building standards. Unfortunately, many builders impose deed restrictions that force you to build the house they think you should have instead of the one you want. We ended up purchasing an outlot adjacent to a development in order to avoid these restrictions. In the end, we saved on a lower purchase price, taxes, upkeep, utilities, easier to clean etc... and I don't feel we compromised anything.

Regards,

Jerry

We figure our house is 2240sq ft, the designer says 2320, and the appraiser says 2400sq ft - so who know exactly what it is! Honestly, we would have built bigger if we could have afforded it, but we couldn't. When we were looking at the two levels plus basement at around 3500sq ft, I was concerned about not seeing my family enough! Living in this tiny rental has made me realize how little space we actually need. I'm sure I am going to wish parts of the new house were bigger. However, I am quite happy with the size of the house/ size of the payment ratio!

We are empty nesters and just finished our "forever home". Well, it's not completly done...the master bedroom is not finished and neither is the sunroom, but it's done enough to be in. The heated/AC part of the house is 1712 with two bedrooms and two bathrooms. Perfect for us. The overflow space for large family get-togethers is the 680 sq ft sunroom, that will have it's own heat pump (some day) so it can be climate controled as needed. My craft room is over the master bedroom and will also have it's own window heat pump so I can heat and cool it only as needed. It just makes more sense to me to spend money heating and cooling rooms that I need and use daily rather than spending money on spaces that are not in use. I had a larger house when the kids were small and it just seemed that I was spending too much time cleaning unnecessary rooms. So I eliminated that extra work on this house.

We would be empty nesters--we have two grown daughters--but for my midlife twins--now seven yrs old.

So we had to build a house that would accomodate a couple of midlife folks that many days felt older than we were and two rowdy boys that needed a lot of space.

We also anticipate grandchildren soon while still raising young kids. So we built a large ranch home with a mostly finished walkout basment with lots of light and windows, and french doors.

When all of the kids are finally gone--we will mostly use the main level and still have lots of space in the lower level for our children and grandchildren.

3500 sq ft first floor--finished about 2500 on lower level.

I think we planned well. I am mostly happy with the house we built. I wish I had a bigger laundry room/mudroom for my boys. Who knew three yrs ago when we were starting this process that they would become so rowdy and messy?!

What's the old saying?--You can never be too rich, too thin, or have a big enough mudroom.

did someone say guests?
how about 18-22 people for Easter? or "mommy weekends" with six friends enjoying some no kid time and some wine, music & shopping? or sleepovers with ten kids?

guests... YES. we will have guests.

We think we made the perfect decision. We really have two houses under one roof: our living quarters and a guest "house" with separate entrance.

There are just the two of us and our living quarters are about 1800 Sq Ft, all on one level: great room, master suite, study with loft (where our younger grand kids who can't stay in the guest house can sleep over), good size kitchen/pantry (and, of course, my wine cellar).

The guest house is about 1600 square feet: 2 storey, 2 BR/2BA, office area (for when we retire), family room with kitchen (no cooking, but everything for a party).

It works perfectly for us. When we have guests, they have their own spaces. When we have parties, we can open up our great room and the guest area family room -- they open onto a deck and pool. When we don't have guests and we aren't having a party, we close up the guest area live in our 1800 foot apartment. It saves cleaning and energy.

And if there ever comes a time when one or both of us will need a caretaker, the upper floor of the guest house will become a caretaker's residence.

We built a home totalling 4350 sqft for the two of us and our three young ones. Coming from a 1580sqft home this size is now perfect. We use every bit of space daily, except the dining, the formal den, the media room, which all get used a few times a month. I could definitely see 20 years from now not needing this house and rebuilding a smaller one but for these next couple of decades we have the right house.

I love reading posts like this! It's amazing how individual we really are, and kind of funny, too.

We live in a ranch with 1500ish on the main floor and an almost-full finished basement.

The house we're designing is just a bit smaller with some reconfigurations, so yes, we think we'll be pretty happy with it.

We are empty nesters and built a 5,500 SF home. It was custom designed and sits on 3.5 acres. It was also built and certified as an Earthcraft home. When the techs ran the blower door test, they said "wow" in unison.

Now, to answer the question, would we build it all over again? No. I was diagnosed with a major health problem and find it difficult to keep up with the maintenance. Typically, we do our own maintenance and cleaning/upkeep.

If we were building again, we would have built a one-story plan over a finished basement. Basements around here are of the daylight, walkout variety and the design would have been such that the two levels were tied together. For example, open staircase, same finishes downstairs as main level, etc. We built this type home at the lake and love it. Live and learn.