help - security deposit

17 years ago

Live in Pennsylvania. My LL is withholding security deposit because he states for the 60days prior to my moveout (June30) that the apartment was filthy (I admit - I procrastinate in doing dishes and laundry... but filthy?!?) and that he could not show it.

Spoke to him July 17 and he says he has not found a new tenant and will holding my security deposit.

Can he do this?!? By the way, when I moved out (a week early at his request - he said he would prorate, I had the apt professionally cleaned).

Thanks!

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Comments (7)

nfllifer
17 years ago
Check with a lawyer. Many states have landlord tenant hotlines. I can do this... BUT I always notify the tenant after the first showing what needs to be cleaned and why.

Its extreamly hard to rent out messy apartments. I had two identical apartments for rent, on on the main and one directly above on the second floor. The month prior the first person that looked at the other identical apartment on the second floor took it.

I got a call requesting an upstairs unit. I explained it was very messy and 2 young guys were living there making it hard to show. He looked at it and then I convinced him to look at the lower unit to get a better feel for space. He rented the lower unit imediatly.

I showed the upper unit 12 times and couldn't get any takers. After they moved out and it was clean the first person took it. ( I actually showed it to two people and both parties wanted it)

Obviously it was the tenants fault I could not re-rent the unit and they should pay my lost rent IMO.

If he never mentioned this to you while he was showing the unit you may have a case.
cnvh
17 years ago
I live in PA and had some issues with our last LL not giving us any of our security deposit back... so I did some searching regarding PA laws re: security deposits, and I don't recall seeing anything relating to the state of the apartment BEFORE the tenant moves out.

If you had it professionally cleaned after moving and there was no unrepaired damage to the unit, I don't see how he can withhold the deposit-- unless it stated somewhere in your lease that the apartment had to be in "show" condition prior to you moving out.

If you can afford it, talk to a lawyer. If not, review your lease closely, research local/state RE laws as best you can, and perhaps contact a mediation service to settle the dispute. (Most areas have free/low cost mediators who you can utilize for situations like this, and if you eventually have to go to court to get your money back, it looks good for YOU that you tried to settle it via mediation first.)
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There are some flaws in that list. A few: #2: if you find something in the lease you don't like you can alter it, cross it out, or add to it. (I have nothing outlandish in my leases, but the first time someone starts scribbling over and crossing out a legally binding contract I've typed up and will be party to, I'll say buhbye to them. I take a lot of time and research and am constantly updating my leases. They are for both tenant and landlord's protection. I see someone whip out a pen and start doing handwritten addendums, I know right then and there they are going to be 'difficult' and parting ways at that juncture would be a wiser move. A much better approach: talk to the landlord, tell them why you're uncomfortable with clause xyz, and ask if they will reword it. If it's not outlandish, I'd consider it. Not saying I'd do it though. The day a tenant pays the taxes and repairs and upkeep is the day they get to call the shots.) 9.) Do a walk through on move out and have the landlord sign off on an agreement that you have left the unit in fair condition. (No way am I going to sign anything on a quick walk through. My state's law allows 45 days to refund a deposit. Although I never, ever use that amount of time, I would refuse to sign anything a tenant presented to me on move out. There are issues a tenant can cause that will not show up on a quick final walk through. Plumbing, wiring, etc. I have a house right now that the tenant bailed and I kept the deposit. Even that is not enough. He fancied himself johnny handyman and did things I was not made aware of and are not readily visible on a walk through. I have crawled into the attic and found exposed electrical boxes after he opted to rewire an upstairs bedroom. We found he put an electrical box under the deck, ran it through a hole he drilled in the concrete block through to the basement and at the other end is a plug that goes into an outlet. That one for his holiday lights, I presume. Oh, one more, if you flush the toilet more than twice in an hour the basement floor below gets a nice trail of water to the sump pump because the freaking plumbing is leaking and again, I was not advised.) #15 That one is kind of playing with fire. Very bad advice. I have never been threatened with an attorney. If I were, as soon as I found out it was bogus (Uncle Joe's industrial relations & worker's compensation firm), there goes that tenant's credibility. Just my .02.
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Why on earth would I take him out for coffee to discuss it? Because our society has gotten entirely too "sue-happy" and it sickens me when everyone seems to think that thier first course of action needs to be taking legal action. I understand, you are not advising me to contact a lawyer, but by the tone of your response, you seem to imply that I should want to squash him like a bug. (Okay, while I might fantasize about that, it's certainly not a very grown-up response!) I should mention that since we moved out, aside from the security deposit thing, he's made efforts at continuing to be friendly with us-- always waves, always says hello, etc. Over the summer, he even tried to give us an electric hedge trimmer that I'm sure he got free somewhere (our properties are separated by a hedgerow-- and yes, my husband is meticulous in maintaining it, by hand). So it's not like he's going out of his way to avoid us. I would like to maintain that degree of civility if at all possible. Confronting him directly and in person, as far as I can see, is the most straightforward, honest, non-cowardly way to go about it. And since I want to do it on neutral ground (neither his house nor ours) and in a public place (lessen any potential for a scene), the local diner for coffee seems to make sense. I have documentation on our state landlord-tenant laws that I intend to bring with me. If he can look at that and still refuse to return the money, then small-claims court would be a possibility.
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Our friends were the buyers in a situation like this, and yes, they had a security deposit per the advice of both realtors. I think it was held in escrow, though, so it was released as soon as sellers moved out and the house was turned over in the same condition as at closing. It's basically a rent-back situation, and with any renter you'd have a security deposit. As a buyer, I'd never consider letting the seller stay without it---if something did happen in those few weeks, you'd have no recourse if you didn't have a deposit---so it seems like a very reasonable request to me. But if you're concerned, I would document the condition of the house at closing well (just like if you were renting and wanted to be sure to get your security deposit back) and give that record to the buyer and realtors.
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I simply do not understand the light-bulb issue. Unless all the lights were new when a tenant moved in, how is the tenant responsible for replacing the light bulbs? We are renting a large town-house, 3 floors with recessed ceiling lights. The ceilings are 12ft high. There are numerous ceiling lights throughout the house. Four bathrooms with both ceiling lights and vanity lights. Multiple driveway spots, some up on trees. When we moved in, we noticed some of the recessed lights had CFL's screwed in, which looked weird. After 2 weeks, half the main-floor ceiling lights started burning out. We learned CFL's should not be used with dimmers. That was the cause of them burning out. Were we responsible for that? We replaced only the lights we needed. We had lamps which we used in the living room. We have replaced the kitchen recessed lights 3x since living here. We have a large vent hood over the cooktop. There are 8 halogen lights. After one month, they all burned out within 3 days. I replaced those and they were expensive and difficult to install. If they burn out before we leave (3 months)I am not replacing those. They obviously were not new when we moved in. We have no intention of replacing all these lights. If they were new when we moved in, that's a different story although I think the landlord is required to provide light for his tenant. I would assume that would be built into the rent. We pay for the electricity. In a house this size and age, there were many things which needed repair but were not. I do not feel responsible for repairing things which broke due to age and use. How can a landlord charge for items which were 'on their last leg?' I have a list of things which broke over the year and half not due to anything we did. They were just old and well worn. The light-bulb issue seems ridiculous to me. Jane
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patti43
17 years ago
A messy apartment wouldn't necessarily keep me from renting it. I can overlook a mess if I like the layout, area and the rent is right. I WOULD want reassurance from the landlord that it would be cleaned before we moved in--carpet, bathrooms, stove/oven, cabinet shelves (I'm dreamin' now) and fresh paint if needed.

Don't know how much your deposit was but if it was just a few dirty dishes (and hopefully your laundry wasn't all over the floor), I don't see any reason not to get at least most of your deposit back. Good luck!
housenewbie
17 years ago
I thought the deposit was supposed to take care of *damage* you do to the apt, not whether or not the landlord could rent it after you leave. After you're out of there, it's no longer your problem.

In my experience, apts are cleaned and often painted between tenants, so there wouldn't be someone looking to move in the day after you move out anyway. I never had my apt showed to potential tenants while I lived there; nor did i ever see an apt that wasn't empty. If I did I'd think it bizarre. Anyway, if you're getting ready to leave, of course the place will be messy--you'll be packing and whatnot and probablt won't have time to do the dishes and make the bed every day. Sheesh.

Go to the library or courthouse and look up the landlord/tenant laws in your area. If I were you I'd be really annoyed at this, and wish I'd done some damage to the place so at least there'd be a reason for losing my deposit.
nfllifer
17 years ago
I rarely have any vacancies. Tenants move out by noon the last day of the month and the new tenant moves in on the first. Rental agreements are monthly so If I have to paint and clean between tenants its a full months rent out of my pocket. My painters and cleaners get in at noon when they have to and are out before the next day. Sometimes the painters are there till 3 am. I always show them occupied.

My deposits are for non payment of rent, damage, cleaning, leagle fees, and lost rent. If I am not able to rent a unit because the current tenant is a slob, the current tenant is notified a month early what will be happening. It states this in my lease and states the tenant must vacum regularly and keep the place clean and tidy.
cindy_lou_who
17 years ago
I live in PA also and had an issue with my last landlord and my security deposit.

He sold the house and gave me the run around for almost a month before I got my security deposit back.

Try this site and see if you can find what you're looking for~

Here is a link that might be useful: PA Security Deposit Law
julia_2006
17 years ago
Some thoughts...

My old lease stated that once we have determined that we would not be continuing our lease (by not returning the lease renewal form)our apartment would be showed to prospective tenants.

My lease went on to say that when our apartment was showed to prospective tenants, it needed to be in show condition.

However, also in our lease it said that we were to be given 24hours notice from the LL if they were to enter/show our place. This gave us time to clean and straiten up- i lived with 2 guys, our place always needed to be cleaned. Anywho, our LL was able to show the unit to one person and immediately rent it.

Were you given a notice of when they would enter? You should check your lease to see if you were required to keep your place tidy when being shown. This would be a good starting place to see if you have any argument in getting your deposit back.

help - security deposit

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nfllifer

cnvh

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