I wonder if this implies, or should imply, a categorical statement about the names of found roses - guilty until proven innocent. Identity is of course a more complex matter. As to SP, I see your point to some degree since some people claim that it´s Paul´s Dresden China, (re)introduced and (re)named by Brooke in 1960. SP is not a study name though, it has been firmly established in the trade over the past 50 years without much debate. Not sure if we want to interpret the naming procedures of the *American* rose society as a binding verdict, one way or the other ... Admittedly, an unclaimed or found rose´s identity in terms of genetic, or breeding origins is a special matter. How do we deal with those (famous) chance seedlings that appeared in nurseries, private gardens or open nature and are now firmly established in commerce, Stanwell Perpetual for instance? What do we really know about Stanwell´s identity in terms of origin or its name? But does this lack of sufficient evidence, or just one vague tale of origin, mean that SP2, just like SP1 or FD, has to be presumed to be guilty, in commerce under a wrong name, and by extension identity? I forgot to mention, btw, that Beales actually classifies Francis Dubreuil as a tea, and they will correct the erroneous classification of FD as an HP in their catalogue. They also state in their catalogue that they now carry the correct Pink Gruss and Aachen, and Irene Watts. Which brings us to ... the second entry on Irene Watts/Pink Gruss an Aachen on HMF - your entry, Jeri? Does it imply that Beales/Guillot were the main culprits in the global distribution of the faux Irene Watts? What about Loubert? Presumably, someone must have given Beales the correct Irene Watts after all ... So let me conclude that the OP, Suzan, will get the correct Sophie´s Perpetual (from Beales). And I will get that too (from David Austin), and the correct Francis Dubreuil (from Beales). Better go to bed now before this gets worse. Andrea

I am in the same boat as you. I have repotted 120 plants and still have at least 50 or more to do. I usually plant 36 plants but will probably up that to 48 this year. Sorry I haven't grown any of the varieties you have questions on, but I had a question for you or anyone else. How many plants to do a good trial of a variety?

I did an extensive search for info on dwarfs and short determinates last fall. It was very frustrating to try to sort out the various terms since I'd never seen one in the flesh. Most people don't focus on plant "footprint" and height so I finally just took the shotgun approach and grew out 60+ varieties to see for myself. 1)Dwarf and Tree are much as you describe but I wouldn't say VERY slow growth. I can say that, in general, they aren't early. Dwarf can also be used to describe a very short plant such as Red Rocket. Bush seems to mean a very different growth habit. They're short plants that make a lot of branches that all bear about equally. Extreme Bush is an exception. It's 30", very early, 2 stems, short internode, determinate. In truth these terms are used interchangeably. Czech Bush, Polish Dwarf and Russian Red (tree) are all very similar. 2) Semi-determinate and Compact indeterminate are practically the same thing for me except that the SD might get twice as tall. Royal Hillbilly is a good example of CI and got about 3.5' for me. Homestead 24 a SD got to at least 6'. 3) The tree and dwarf types seem to prefer only a few main stems with the fruit and foliage close to the stem and with less distance between them. The indeterminates think they can have all the space they want. They like to form a new main stem at every leaf axil and stretch out a greater distance between everything. The determinates are very much individuals. Some like a few main stems and some like to multiply them like rabbits. Some have short distances between leaves and others stretch out like indeterminates. You can alter the habits of most by pinching. At least some determinates will completely change their habits and give more fruit if you pinch out the growth tip of the first main stem. A 2' bush can make a larger footprint than a 6' indeterminate. Everything depends on how much space you want to give a plant, how much time you want to spend pinching and how well you can support them. Even the 12" Red Robin needs a stake. When the dwarfs and determinates get old and ratty looking, you can cut them almost to the ground and they'll come back again.

Wow.... the more I think I know about tomatoes, the more I find new names that I've never heard of before. Of interest for next year is Dester and Bear Claw (seems like ALOT of people are growing these two). The coolest name for a tomato on this thread: Sinister Minister (I wonder is that good?) Can't wait for the new ZAP thread to come out in August/September.... Here's my final list (as they are all now growing from seed on my growth shelf): NEW FOR 2015 Name Color Type DTM Chef's Choice Orange Orange Beefsteak; F1 75 Earl's Faux Pink Beefsteak; OP 80 Rose Pink Beefsteak; OP 80 Neves Azorean Red Beefsteak; OP 75 Shuntukski Velikan Red Beefsteak; OP 80 Kumato Black Globe; F1? 75 Beaverlodge 6808 Slicer Red Globe; OP 55 Arkansas Traveler Red Globe; OP 85 Cowlick's Brandywine Pink Oblate; OP 85 Jet Star Red Oblate; F1 72 Homer Fike's Yellow Oxheart Yellow Oxheart; OP 89 Japanese Black Trifle Black Pear Shape; OP 75 Prue Tomato Red Plum; OP 85 REPEATS Name Color Type DTM Sungold Orange Cherry; F1 75 Dr. Carolyn White Cherry; OP 65 Celebrity Red Globe; F1 70 Indian Stripe Black Oblate; OP 80 Finally, can't wait to compare notes on Kumato with Seysonn. smithmal