"Anyone who wants flush installation of appliances should read the installation instructions, many of which say that 25" from wall is required for flush integrated installation." Correct ! but you simply stated that any brand would be fine and went out of your way to promote the KA as an acceptable solution - when in fact it is not for the look the majority of people are after when they want a disappearing DW. This is not simply a case of foreign vs. domestic cabinetry or the depth of the Euro's being less. The N.A. standard carcass depth is 24" Period! Add to that the typical door of 3/4" and the KA simply WILL NOT WORK in that depth if one want to maintain a constant plane across the run of cabinets! I won't even go into trying to integrate a KA into framed inset cabinetry. It ain't pretty. "Miele's DW's may be easier to seat flush in a 24" cabinet, but their warming drawer doesn't. " Correct again! They did a piss poor job of implementing this product, and there are several better choice out there. but........................this discussion isn't about warming drawers or Miele! I could list you a dozen products in a minute or two that fail miserably in the marketplace, so what ??? "For the custom handle, any custom panel appliance will work. For flush installation, read the installation instructions to know the depth requirements!" Wow, what a revelation, thanks for playing. hey dodge - I TOTALLY disagree with you re: KA and Miele having the same quality - especially in DWs. KA has been steadily going downhill in quality the last decade and especially in the last 5 years. KA DWs of the 60's and 70's were very very good. Some of the early 80's gear was still top drawer too. Since Hobart's divestiture of the division things have not been as solid. This is also from personal experience, and I guarantee you I have, see in the field , and go through a lot more DW's than 99.9% of the public. Leaving your marketing bias out of it, you actually think KA's pumps, seals, racks, latches, stainless steel , fit and finish , and warranty are equal to Miele's ???

Very glad I saw this site. I am designing a kitchen in a 7' x 4'-6" space in a Brooklyn apartment. I'm considering the Fisher Paykel single drawer DW installed installed beneath a standard, undermounted 24" wide SS sink in a 36" wide base cabinet with a stack of 8" wide (Inside) drawers to one side. I see no difference here (ergonomically) from bending to fill/empty an regular front loading DW. I could do without a DW but resale is a concern at some point. Since we're all going full electric in the near future. I'm thinking of getting a 24" induction stove/cook top. The cook top would provide additional space to do food prep, etc. Anyone have experience with induction cook tops? Thanks.

The exposed control panels I find a little easier to use, and they sometimes give info about where the dishwasher is in the cycle (useful if you want to know if it's almost done, or if you want to add a forgotten item early in the wash cycle). OTOH, the cabinet door panels vary in size from one manufacturer to another, and if *this* dishwasher fails you may be limited in what you can replace it with if you want to keep the cabinet panel. Sometime the exposed control panels are 6" tall (matching most U.S. cabinet drawers), others just 4" or other sizes. Miele makes some filler panels to adapt cabinet panels that are too short, but short of sawing off part of it (often not a feasible option) there's nothing that can be done if your new DW has a larger exposed control panel than your old one. Some fully-integrated DWs do have a light or other indicator to show it's on, either pointing downward at the floor, or upward making the small gap above the DW and below the countertop glow. Using a fully-integrated DW also means using your own cabinet pulls. You'll need a fairly large, sturdy, easy to grasp one for your dishwasher. If all your other cabinets have small round knobs, you'll either ruin the intended hiddenness with a big handle on the DW or have to grasp and pull hard on a small knob or handle (which I wouldn't recommend - it may break off over time). Integrated DWs with exposed control panels have the manufacturer's usual door latch which usually is easy to use. Obviously there's an aesthetic difference between the two. Most (all?) of us have exposed ovens, so I don't really see the point of hiding the dishwasher unless it really blows the symmetry or something. The low height of the open door has nothing to do with whether it's standard/integrated/semi-integrated, but rather is a result of the move to "tall tub" dishwashers with doors that open all the way down to the toekick, rather than 3/4 of the way down with a stationary access panel between the door and the toekick. The door on those old dishwashers didn't open as low as on the new ones, since the pivot point and thus the entire open door was 6 to 8 inches higher. Nowadays, only low-end dishwashers still use that design, which substantially reduces capacity. Whatever happened to top-load dishwashers? They were really easy to close, although harder to load. The drawer-type dishwashers are perhaps easiest to use, and the Fisher & Paykel drawers are shallow enough so the fully-integrated DW won't stick out in front - and unlike other brands, they have a few controls on a small plate that mounts near the top corner of the cabinet panel, available in different colors. I think GE/Monogram had a fully-integrated dishwasher that had a small panel that fit in a rectangular hole cut near the top of the full cabinet panel, not sure if they (or anyone else) still offers this.

FYI - Ive owned three F/P dishdrawers at different properties over the last 15 years. Heard from both the experience center in Orange County and also from the service technician that Finish Quantum (first choice) or Finish Classic are recommended above other brands, and Cascade is actually not recommended. The explanation they gave me was that there is less detergent in the Finish packets, which is better as the drawers are smaller than a full size unit. The cascade packs are portioned for full size units. You can, of course, use Cascade powder or Finish powder but do not overfill. If you’re using packets, place them in the silverware bucket so they don’t interfere with the dishwasher arms. Hope this helps and sorry for replying to an ancient thread, it just happens to be the most relevant one for new buyers.