Alright now! You guys are confusin me! Ive checked my books and Ive googled a bunch of pictures onlineand I dont know what it was that was here. The pic of the bird I posted is a little misleading. The bird I saw was WAY browner than it looks in the pics. I know, I knowdont go by the color! And its sitting on the branch with its back toward me. I was amazed that I was able to get a pic when it turned its head in my direction briefly a couple times. Heres the third pic I got where you can (kinda) see that its facing away from mebut its the worst quality pic. I figured out why the pictures from upstairs are distorted! Theyre taken thru the screenand the birds on the feeders in the backyard look even worse because of the "down" angle of the camera thru the screen. The BIG bird isnt quite as bad since the neighbors yard is higher than mine, so it was taken on somewhat more of the same level with me. In the second pic above the bird had turned a little bit more sideways, but its still sitting on the branch facing away from me. With all the pictures Ive looked at, I really dont know, now, what it was. I first saw it on top of the lattice at my back fence, which is only about 25' away from the windowI have a very shallow backyardand I sure didnt notice any black eye stripe or black and white head striping. Actually, I didnt notice any black or gray at all. It sat on that branch and I watched it for close to 10 minutes. Tho the pic doesnt show it, it was brown and tan. I guess I havent found any immature pics, cause all the ones Ive found are very much gray to dark gray. I think the tail pointing down so much in the pic was as much a balancing act as anything. The branch it was on was very long and pretty small for such a large bird (at least 15-18"), and it was moving around a lot. So I dont think the position of the tail is telling in this case. And then theres still the problem of what the first bird I saw wasthe purpose of this post. It was really VERY different. When I saw the second one the next day I assumed it was a pair since males and females can be quite different in size and colorand since a lot of birds do travel around in pairs, but the closest picture Ive found yet of the original bird is the first pic I linked of the Gray Hawkwhich we all agree is wasnt! But it was exactly like that picture, but lighteralmost whitewith very obvious, wide, dark banding on the tailwhich was very widely fanned when it flew away. Maybe I just need to concede thatunless one or both come back and I get better picturesIm never going to know for sure what they were. Whatever they were, Im glad I got to see them! Skybird (who is easily identifiable by the arms and legsand the uniform!) P.S. Digit, my pair of robins (that are here all winter) nest in my backyard every year, but that obviously has nothing to do with the feeders. I do think it might have to do with the constant water sourceand the easy access to worms in the worked soil in the veggie garden. And there was a nest in one of the neighbors cottonwoods that overhangs my yard, but I dont know what was in it! I only know it was there because its been falling into my backyard all fall and winter! Other than that I havent seen any other nests, but then I dont actually have any deciduous trees, and Ive never seen any nests in the two upright junipersand I dont have any bird houses out since I dont have anywhere to hang them. Wait! I've had a house sparrow nest in the Euonymous that grows up the side of my house right by the steps down off of the deck every year! Do they count as birds? They've been building it on top of the bend in the downspout where they were completely hidden by the foliage. But they won't be back! I've pulled almost all of the Euonymous down! It was growing up under the siding and the shingles!

Actually we are fat because of the fat fairy. Remember when you put your tooth under the pillow and got a quarter? Or nickel? Well, that winged (^(^((&&*&%$%$ takes the teeth and grows them into fat cells. When you are sleeping happily with all your adult teeth she sneaks in and glues it to your butt and thighs, and anywhere else she can. And uh, I kind of roll around in the dirt too, it sure makes me happy to be all dirty in the garden! Tally Ho!

'Why on earth would you allow a breed like that in your home is beyond me. Keep the pit mix and expect more of the same incidents in the future.' Why would you question what type dog a person has if they are a responsible owner, as sarah appears to be. She has realized that there is a problem and working to resolve it. This dominance/jealousy problem could have risen with any breed dog, not only a Pitt. I have been around/worked with dogs all my life; the three times I was bitten was by a Cocker, a Jack Russell and a Sheltie. Pitts are not the top bitters, but as larger dogs they do more damage when they bite. A lot of smaller dog bites are also not reported making their bite statistics lower on the list. I've seen Pitts who were wonderful "people/kid dogs", who were wonderful pets and great with other pets and I've seen Pitts who were wonderful pets but couldn't be trusted around other pets, same as can be found in any breed. I can't say I would never have a Pit because I've had too many rescues to say never but I probably wouldn't go out and intentionally get a Pit due to not knowing bloodlines or how the animal had been raised. At one time there was a guy here in Florida who bred Pitts just for fighting. He took the worst of the worst and bred them over and over. If you got a dog from his bloodlines in error, you could very well have a problem because this IDIOT had bred them to be vicious. I've seen people who want their Pitts to be bad and train/abuse them to be so. Sadly, in cases like these the dogs are the ones who suffer. Personally I think that people of this ilk, people who fight dogs and people such as this breeder need to be put into a cage and forced to fight in the same manner which the dogs are forced to do. Animal abuse laws aren't strict enough in my opinion. People who abuse animals have no respect for any kind of life as far as I am concerned. Bless you sarah for fostering.

daggett, I have 14 cats and 3 dogs, two of whom are herders. Pippin is an Aussie with moderate herding drive, and Tasha is presumably an Aussie mix with VERY intense herding drive. All of my cats have lived with dogs for as long as the cats have been members of my family. Even so, they are wisely nervous and cautious around dogs they don't know. When we adopted Pippin as a newly neutered young adult, he came from an Aussie rescue where he had been fostered with a cat or two. I was told he was curious about the cat but not at all pushy, so I thought he'd make a great fit for our family. When he arrived, he was, indeed, curious about the household cats and spent some time trying to follow them around until they hissed and backed him off. He took their reprimands well and left them alone. The next day, Pip and the other dogs came out to the barn with me for morning chores. The eldest cat, Billy, had gone out earlier to start his daily farm sentry duties. As soon as Pippin caught sight of Billy, he took off after him with bloodlust in his eyes. This was no playful romp. This was a hungry wolf after a rabbit. I screamed at Pip and ran after him, but he could not be called off. He was after a kill, and there was nothing I could do to stop him. He didn't know me yet and hadn't accepted me as his pack leader. He also didn't know Bill and hadn't identified him as part of his new family pack. Gratefully, Billy escaped into the hayshed before Pip caught up with him, and I eventually caught up with Pip and dragged him back to the house, screaming at him along the way. If I hadn't had Pip flown up to me in MN from TX, I would have returned him to the rescue that day. Because that wasn't an immediately available option, I decided on a different tactic. I purchased a muzzle and put it (and a leash) on Pip when he came outside with me. He continued to be fine with the cats indoors, but it took about a month before I trusted him outdoors without the muzzle. With Pip, the key was to give him time to identify and integrate into his new family pack and to understand and accept the pack order. Over the course of a month, he realized that all of the cats were part of his new pack, and he never chased one of them again, inside or out. In fact, Pip is submissive to all the cats (he's a submissive personality, anyway). It wasn't until I got Pip into basic obedience classes, however, that he fully accepted me as his alpha pack leader. Tasha was and is a different matter altogether. We adopted her as a tiny puppy, so she was raised in a household full of cats. Even so, she has always been much more problematic for the cats than has Pippin. Tasha is MUCH more intensely driven than is Pip, and she's also a very pushy alpha personality. Everything in her universe BELONGS to Tasha, is DOMINATED by Tasha, and REVOLVES around Tasha ... everything except me, that is. She knows and accepts that I am her alpha leader, but everything and everyone else breathes her air at her pleasure and mercy. With Tasha, it is obvious that herding drive is an extension of prey drive. The intensity of her herding behavior is really quite remarkable. I have no doubt, though, that she would have turned into a killer if I hadn't set very strict behavioral boundaries on her and if I didn't continue to enforce them on a daily basis. I am still constantly having to tell her to leave the cats alone. She simply wants to dictate every move every animal (or toy) makes in her world. Unfortunately because of her cruciate problems, I can not allow her to exercise as much or as vigorously as her mind requires, so keeping her behavior within controllable limits is a constant challenge. As I noted in my earlier response, herders are amazing dogs, but they are NOT easy! Now back to your dog. You made a MAJOR mistake by ever allowing your dog to chase your cats. Not only has the dog been rewarded for his bad behavior by achieving the desired effect of "herding" the cats, but the cats have now learned that you can not or will not protect them from the dog. They have lost trust in you and in the safety of their own home. They are trapped with the enemy - an enemy that they are very much aware can and may want to kill them. Of course they're hiding. Every instinct they have tells them they must hide for their self-preservation. They have no experience living with passive dogs, so all they have to respond to are their own instincts. As I mentioned earlier, you must keep your dog either leashed or locked securely away from the cats at all times until and unless your cats adjust to his presence and give you the opportunity to train him properly. Do NOT in ANY way try to force your cats out of hiding or into the presence of the dog. They must be allowed to make peace with his presence in their own time and way ... if it's going to happen at all. Most likely, they will start coming out under cover of darkness, late at night after everyone has gone to bed, the dog is securely crated, and all is quiet. Once they start reaffirming their safety under those conditions, they will probably slowly start to appear during daylight hours. If you do NOT allow the dog to approach them or intimidate them in any way, your cats will eventually get braver. It may take months or years, but if you assure their safety and work to regain their trust away from the dog, they will probably eventually come out of hiding again. You can help your cats by spending lots of time alone with them in whichever room they are hiding, trying to coax them out of hiding just to enjoy some petting, playing, and treats. Like I said, they have lost trust in you, and you're going to have to work to regain it. Let them know that they still matter and that they can safely spend time with you without risking interaction with the dog. Unfortunately, you won't be able to teach your dog to accept the cats as part of his new family pack until and unless the cats come out of hiding and start reintegrating themselves into the household. It's a waiting game now. Make it impossible for the dog to get anywhere near the cats on his own, and give the cats the supportive loving they need to feel safe again. Hopefully in time the cats will give you a second chance to be their protector in the presence of the dog. Good luck, Laurie