Hi Dean,
Our climates are so different we're comparing apples and oranges, but here goes for me. BWS is a moderate producer for me- doesn't hold a candle to Cherokee Purple (I'm on track to get 40 lbs from one plant). BWS is in my top 4 for taste. The best tomato I have had this year was Soldacki- very sweet start then intense tomato flavor- but enjoy it because this year from one plant you get 3 tries.The other in the top 4 for taste was my "accidental" Brandywine from my saved seed that is a (probably) BW X CP.

For me in a cold spring/ really cool summer year the best taste was from (in this order) Soldacki, BW X CP, BWS and CP. But the only plant that really is a producer is CP. I started a Rutgers plant for a friend that lives even closer to the coast (read cooler) and she never got a ripe fruit this year.

So my oranges to your apples probably didn't tell you much.
Dan

Neves Azorean Red-is probably one of the best tasting tomatoes ever, providing you let them get dead ripe on the vine before pulling, and that you have got the right strain of seed to start with-( I say strain-simply because some are better than others-where the grower has been more selective and careful in his choice of seeding tomatoes and flavor) so it is not really a strain as such-but more of a re-selection program,
But the only problem with NAR is that is such a late fruiting tomato-mine have never produced a single flower open on them before the first week in July, but I have heard of some people getting them to fruit earlier without too much effort.

I think that if you start them off as early as possible in the year-( two or three weeks before anything else is sown) you stand a better chance of an earlier crop-provided the right light and heat conditions are observed)

As a plant- it is one of the healthiest I have ever seen-rarely suffering from the majority of tomato problems and maladies , of stout stem and structure.

One of it's better attributes is that when it actually does start fruiting it goes like a rocket non stop for the rest of the season- pumping out truss after truss of large tomatoes- in fact it is just coming into it's best and starting to show off a bit as to what it can do, when the first frosts arrive and the light conditions start to go in october- I am sure that if one could maintain the right light and heat for it after october -it would probably go on to produce mountains of tomatoes of sheer delightful flavor

I grew NAR side by side with Brandywine Sudduth with the same soil, fertilizer, water, etc. and in every way especially taste BRANDYWINE was far ahead.

John

OP = "How is the taste and production of the Neves Azorean Red?"

I grew one vine each of Neves Azorean Red side-by-side with Brandywine in 2006 and found:

Brandywine made 30+ tomatoes with good but not earth-shattering flavor.

Neves Azorean Red made four extra large tomatoes with a peculiar and distinctive flavor.

Neves Azorean Red was more temperature sensitive, shutting down completely when daytime temps exceeded 92*. Both varieties were very late ... Brandywine about 110 days after an April 9 plant-out, and Neves Azorean Red about 100 days after an April 21 plant-out.

However, I crossed NAR pollen from that one plant to a single blossom on the Brandywine plant and subsequently have been growing out and sharing F1 and F2 seeds of the cross with a few people. The results so far are outstanding, IMO, with taste running better than either parent and production fair to middling.

How is the taste and production of the Neves Azorean Red?
The bench marks I use personally for comparisons of taste and production are Rutgers and Brandywine Sudduth.

*****

OK, I'll chime in here.

Dean, I find the taste of Brandywine (Sudduth) to be quite unique. I'm not saying it's the best tasting I've grown but it is somewhat unique.

Prue is another variety that I find has a unique taste as well.

I would find it difficult to use Brandywine( Sudduth) as a benchmark for comparing taste to other varieties. And while I've been up close and personal with Rutgers since I was about 12 and I'm 69 now, I don't experience the taste of it to be anything special although it's a workhorse of a variety like many others I know.

production-wise Brandywine ( Sudduth) has been a moderate producer for me in my zone 5 area and Rutgers, as with many of the earlier commercial varieties such as Valiant and New Yorker have always had high yield.

I've grown Neve's Azorean Red longer than anyone b'c I'm the one who introduced the variety. And I find the taste to be excellent and production to be moderate as it is for most large fruited indeterminates that I grow.

And I'm delighted that Bill crossed NAR and Brandywine to make the hybrid and some very interesting selections have been made from that initial hybrid.

It was a bad year here and I got only one fruit from the F1 hybrid but it was darn good as to taste. No way to estimate production b'c of the lousy season, meaning, I didn't get any fruit at all from maybe 1/3 of the varieties grown this past summer.

Carolyn

This was my first year with NAR. I had heard great things about them, however, I found poor production, fairly susceptible to disease, especially a late blight, and the taste, average. This is only one person's experience and your growing conditions may bear different results. Since my space is limited to about a dozen plants, I will not plant them in '09. My most pleasant surprise for a new for me planting, was Hawaiian Pineapple.

sconticut,

Do you by any chance have extra Hawaiian Pineapple seeds you'd be willing to trade, or do a SASE? I am only looking for about 6 seeds... I could offer some Cherokee Purple, Brandy Boy, Sun Gold, or Honeysweet in return...

I grew Hawaiian Pineapple one year, since it was advertised as something special. Turned out to be practically identical to my regular Pineapple variety from which I save seeds from year to year. No discernable difference in my experience.

Dean, if your serious about growing OP/Heirlooms you have to grow it once. And as Hoosier posted he thought it was good enough to cross with Brandywine.
I was one of the lucky few to grow out Hoosiers Brandywine x NAR cross PL and yes it was/is outstanding as the tomatoes didn't last long as they were ate in conjunction with the seed saving.:)
My first year growing heirlooms I grew, Neves Azorean Red, Mariana's Peace, Brandywine Suddduth and New Big Dwarf to name a few and was not dissapointed with any of them. Ami

Dean
NAR is my favorite Tomato for taste. It has proven,here in the PNW,for me to be a medium producer at best. I'll send you seeds today in case you decide to grow them.
Jim

Jim,

Thank you for the offer. I will send you an email.

I will be adding it to my next years grow list. I thought I had heard some good things about the NAR, but it appears it is not for everyone.

Thanks to everyone for their comments.

Dean

Hi Dean,

This year I grew 2 Neves plants alongside Brandywine Sudduth and a number of other varieties, but just one or two vines each. I grew them in a 12x20 semi-insulated greenhouse; they are still producing. I started from seed indoors under light, but circumstances prevented me from getting the seedlings transplanted out into the greenhouse in their 15 gallon containers until the end of June. They were at least 12 week old transplants.

The numbers below show my best production numbers so far:
Goliath Hyb.........Ņ.12 @ 105oz
Neves Azorean Red.......8 @ 104oz
Brandywine OTV..........5 @ 88oz
Marianna's Peace.......5 @ 84oz
Prudens Purple........Â...7 @ 84oz
Sophie's Choice.....Â...17 @ 84oz
Mortgage Lifter#1....Â17 @ 80oz
Mortgage Lifter#2...ÂÂ6 @ 77oz
Early Girl Hyb......ÂÂ.16 @ 75oz
Brandyboy Hyb........Â...7 @ 75oz
Early Goliath Hyb.....Â..8 @ 65oz
Stump of the World...Â.3 @ 55oz
Brandywine Sudduth......2 @ 45oz
Stupice...........ÂÂÂ...25 @ 42oz

Keep in mind these were all started late and most are still producing, but many are no longer setting fruit; I can't keep it warm enough on the coldest nights.

Even though they were in a greenhouse it seldom got over 90 degrees, as we had a very cool summer, and I started ventilating when it got over 85 degrees. Maybe that's why my Neve's seemed to produce more than Bill's from Indiana. I don't know. I just know that Neves and Marianna's Peace (real surprise) are among my top producers, outperforming all the hybrids except Goliath.

As far as taste goes, the Goliath can't hold a candle to the big heirlooms. I acknowledge that everyone's taste is different, but here's what I observed in my multitude of taste tests.

The Brandywine Sudduth had an amazingly smooth, creamy, dense meat. It has been described as almost a buttery texture. That's what I thought when I tasted it.

The flavor at first seemed rather bland to my Early-Girl-accustomed taste buds, much like a fine wine would be to a seasoned box-wine drinker. After the third or fourth bite I got passed the missing acidic zing and noticed the taste. I realized that my former favorite, Early Girl, had more zing, but that's about all it had. I noticed that the Goliath had a burst of zing at first, but sometimes after the second or third chew turned to tasteless mush right in your mouth. The Brandywine Sudduth, though, had a much better, lingering taste with just a slight acidic zing, but not enough to cover up the deep tomato taste.

I found the Stump of the World, the Brandywine OTV, and the Brandyboy to be very similar to the B-wine Sudduth in texture; different, but similar, in taste and all VERY GOOD. The OTV sometimes yielded to slightly less smooth texture, dependent on overnight cold temps.

Marianna's Peace had a Sudduth-like texture, although a bit less dense and a bit lighter flavor. I liked Marianna's Peace BEST of ALL.

The PrudenÂs Purple also had a Sudduth-like texture and the taste was good, but noticeably not as good. The very best taste and texture in a shorter season tomato in my greenhouse, though.

The Neves had a rich meaty texture, more traditional, and not so creamy smooth, but never mealy. It had a very rich, rich, rich tomatoey flavor. It is our favorite for flavor.

These are just one couple's results and opinions of one growing season in containers in a greenhouse, so they may not apply to others, but I hope they help you in your decisions, Dean.

By the way we are enjoying the peppers from the seed you sent me last year. I didn't have room for any of the tomatoes; maybe next year.

Happy Growing

Bob-northernlight

NAR does surprisingly great in my hot garden. Sets fruit before gets real hot and they just keep on growing. Large as grapefruit. 7 or so per plant.

No spliting. Grow in big containers with afternoon high shade.

Now if can just keep the squirrels away from them.

My favorite tomato for super taste. Thanks Carolyn.

Sandy

trudi......thanks for the info. about Hawaiiannaun Pineapple vs. Pineapple. I don't remember which seed company sent me the seeds, but obviously they fooled me! Guess one takes pot luck these days.

My 2 NAR vines this year that did great were seeds I planted in my cold frame. I obtained the seeds from a certain person's 2.5 pounder she grew last year. I got at least 20 maters each well over a pound from each of the vines. The only fault I could find with NAR is their heavy cores but what the heck........they have everything else in their favor from my experience this summer. And the vines are still green with green maters on them. Just hope the seeds I am saving do half as well next year for me. NAR plants I grew this summer from two other seed sources did not even look like NAR.....they were prolific bearers of small round red tasty tomatoes....reminded me of Early Girls.

NAR plants I grew this summer from two other seed sources did not even look like NAR.....they were prolific bearers of small round red tasty tomatoes....reminded me of Early Girls.

******

If those seed sources were commercial seed sources I do hope you shared with them what you got.

And even if the two sources were from traded seeds it might be worthwhile letting those folks also know what you got.

As the yars pass I see more and more varieties that some folks grow that are nothing like what they originally were and should be, so I'm an advocate of least sharing with a commercial seed source that there were problems so that the same seeds won't be sent out to others.

Carolyn

To: VIKINGKIRKEN
Yes I did save seeds of the Hawaiian Pineapple and have more than enough to send you some. I purchased ny seeds from Jung Seed Co. just because we spend some time each winter in the islands. It was a great. pleasant surprise. I only planted four but gave away 30 or 40 and everyone loves them. Guess I got the good seeds from the suppl;ier. How do I send them to you?

I am currently growing NAR, as well as NAR x Brandywine (seeds from Tomstrees). I also prefer the cross, and it is much more prolific that my standard NAR plant. Here is a photo from today:

{{gwi:1387905}}

Raybo

Raybo,

Is your Brandywine x NAR an F1, an F2 or an F3 plant? I'm assuming it's the plant on the right in your picture?

Bill

Bill,

Both plants above are from F2 seed. They were started at the same time. The one on the right has TomatoTone as the fertilizer; the one on the left I used another brand (as a trial comparison). Guess I'll be sticking with TomatoTone....

Raybo

Carolyn........Good idea, but I want to plant several of the seeds I saved from my real NAR's next summer and make sure they did not cross pollinate. Hate to inadvertantly send out crossed seeds. I think I got the bad seeds from Tomatofest, but not sure since I sowed them all and then threw the package away. I wanted to give plants to my friends and neighbors......and they all ended up with the unknown small tomato instead, as it turned out. Now they aren't speaking to me after I showed them my two good vines. (smile)

Seeds from the other non-NAR were obtained in a trade here on this site. I have already informed him and sent him a few seeds that I saved this year from a large NAR that was from a vine that I am 99% sure did not get crossed. It was more isolated from other varieties.

Hard to keep them very isolated in my little postage stamp yard though. I usually save mater seeds for my own personal use, and only one time over several years have I gotten a crossed one as it turned out. (so far anyway)

Another variety that does well for me year after year is my Red Mortgage Lifter. I just yesterday picked several large maters from one of those vines. They are great, but always on the late side in my garden.
Carbon is another variety that I am especially pleased with this, my first year, of growing it. It cracks a lot, but the taste and hardiness and vigor make up for it. My vine is still dark green and has tomatoes on it yet. Another keeper!

Owen

I know this is a very old thread but wondering if anyone has seeds of NAR X Brandywine cross to trade or share. I love NAR; and Brandywine has been a challenge so if seeds are available I would very much like to try it out.

thanks, Sharon

Anybody has seeds that Sharon wanted ? C'mone !

I, myself, after sifting through all the comments since 2008, I've got the feeling that NAR is not impressive in terms of production, even though it is tasty. Some reported harvesting 8 tomatoes. That is way below par, I think.

Sey

Sharon, that cross you refer to has long been stabilized and is available as Dixiewine and another variety from that same cross is available as Texwine, and neither one should be referred to as an heirloom as some have been doing, since they were deliberately bred.

I've been offering Dixiewine in my annual seed offer for several years. Just Google Dixiewine to look for sources. And I don't think Tania lists it, but you can check.

Carolyn, who was the first person to offer NAR and knows that many folks are very pleased with it based on SSE YEarbook entries and some message sites she participates at and Tania does list it, with seed sources, and an interesting story of I got it as well.

Thanks Carolyn, I will check it out. I personally love NAR and will look for Dixiewine. I have tried before but was unable to find it. I also tried Texwine but no luck. So if you should have some seed, I'd love it!

Sharon, you are an active member at the place where I do my seed offers. I just checked and you made a recent post about tomato jam which got me smiling b'c I made a pb and pear jam sandwich for supper tonight. LOL

So please PM me with your home address at your tomato jam place, but please don't expect seeds back right away b'c I still don't have my 2015 seed offer up due to the gall bladder operations and am now moderating at two places and just cannot keep ahead of the game. But I will put you on the list with a few other requests and get to you eventually.

This offer for Sharon only.

Carolyn

Thanks Carolyn, just PM'd you

I had forgotten all about having a post here. So I opened it again to find out what is all the rave about NAR in Tomato'vle. About its taste there is a unanimity, as being very tasty but production wise there seems to be nothing special to write home about. So my quest to grow it in 2016 has ended. Anything less than 10lbs per plant is far below par for me. so if NAR fruits average about 10 oz then it has to produce at least 16 fruit.

Another NAR feature is that it is a LATE variety ( ~ DTM = 100 +). In my cool climate it might take even longer than that. So if I plant it out early May , it will some time in mid August to taste the first ripe tomato off of it. If I had a much longer warm tomato season I might have given it a try.

Sey

You are wrong on several claims. Production is great for almost everyone, the DTM is NOT 100 plus days for everyone. And average size it not 10 oz, see following link and my comments below

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Neves_Azorean_Red

Tania and Vladimir in the Czech Repulic are more north that you are, see Tania's page above, and I'm not even going to try typing out all the persons who list it in SSE YEarbooks who grow it in zones much colder than yours and it works very well for them.

I'm in a zone 5 and it does great for me and I've grown it many times.

You are in zone 7b, almost 8, so I don't understand and don't think I want to. <G>.

Your choice entirely,

Carolyn.

Carolyn, I can be wrong , no doubt but my conclusion is based on what I read here. Just a few testimonials.

micky wrote :

""But the only problem with NAR is that is such a late fruiting
tomato-mine have never produced a single flower open on them before the
first week in July, but I have heard of some people getting them to
fruit earlier without too much effort."""

so if it flowers in July when do you get ripe fruit ? = Mid August.

John wrote:

"I
grew NAR side by side with Brandywine Sudduth with the same soil,
fertilizer, water, etc. and in every way especially taste BRANDYWINE was
far ahead. John ""

If BW beats NAR, I am done.

Hoosier wrote :

""Neves Azorean Red made four extra large tomatoes with a peculiar and distinctive flavor.""

Four tomatoes ? hmmm !!! . say they weighed one pound each = 4 lbs ."""

aloha10 This was my first year with NAR. I had heard great things about them, however, I found poor production"""

bobnorthernligh on production and size

"""" The numbers below show my best production numbers so far:
Goliath Hyb.........Ņ.12 @ 105oz

Neves Azorean Red.......8 @ 104oz
Brandywine OTV..........5 @ 88oz

..............."""

8 tomatoes @ 10,4oz = 5.2 lbs.Nothing to write home about.

One more:

"""

sandy_8b(z9a tex)

NAR
does surprisingly great in my hot garden. Sets fruit before gets real
hot and they just keep on growing. Large as grapefruit. 7 or so per
plant.""

I am done.

About My zone : 7b, 8a : As you know , USDA zone numbers relate to winter condition and plants hardiness. And it has very tiny co relation to summer growing conditions and that is only relates to the length of frost free duration. To give you an example Dallas TX and Atlanta GA are also in zone 7b but our summer growing condition has no resemblance to Atlanta. I know this b/c I have lived and gardened down there for a number of years.

Finally there are those who swear by NAR and love it too. I have no problem with that. I am just trying to find something for my case. I have about 140 sqr-ft of raised beds, not an acre of land. so space is at premium and my number one requirement is some decent production to pay for the resources.

Sey

If I were to decide whether I would grow something I hadn't grown before, I would check my SSE YEarbooks first about it, then Tania's site as well, and if I couldn't find it there I would check Ventmarin in France where Christian has a superb data base of varieties from everywhere and not pay attention to the opinions of just a few folks or I would never have discovered the many wonderful varieties that I have.

I don't judge one variety against another,viz NAR vs Brandywine ( Sudduth) for instance.. And I always grow a variety a second time if it didn't perform for me the first time and many had praised it. And that b/c no two growing seasons are the same and no two persons grow their tomatoes in the same way. Lots of variables.

Again, your choice, and if I get another notice from Houzz about this topic I think it's best I comment no more.

Carolyn, thinking maybe you can find community garden space so you aren't constrained to the space you have now and you also know you could answer me on that via PM at the other place where you post.

Thank you Carolyn,

About being bothered by Houzz notice, may I suggest that you can go to your profile page and put an end to getting notices. That is what I have done.

On your referral to various data bases : I believe they just provide some condensed tabular information, mostly. Any additional comments they may make are just their and/or somebody else's opinion. AND if they are selling seeds they will always say nice things about it. Having said that, I prefer just ordinary gardeners' polling and opinions. In the process I can be wrong but that it the quickest way to come up with a decision. I don't have the luxury of land and time, age wise. That is my way of screening.

On NAR, I have concluded that it is tasty even though they say taste is subjective. Even if 7 out of 10 say it is tasty, I'll buy it.

Sey

Sey, I have grown NAR for a few years, in zone 5b in Montreal. I have always had great production, more than 10lbs a plant, that's for sure. Most of the tomatoes were around the 1 lb weight and extremely tasty. It's one of my favorites, but you have to grow what you think will work. I grew Azoychka and didn't like it, you grew it and had a positive experience. But NAR won't disappoint. That said, we all have to make tough decisions because of space and time!

Sharon

Thank Sharon,

I may give it a try, if I can find a seat for it. Right now all the tickets are sold. LOL

Sey

That's what I said last year until it was time to start germinating and then I struggled to make up my mind! It's a good problem to have! I also wanted to comment that it's not that late, I had tomatoes probably early August. If we hadn't had such a miserable June and early July, I would have had ripe tomatoes in July I think.

Sharon