I think apples and most fruit trees are tolerant of a wide range of pH. Getting it close to 7 for apples is more about trying to get calcium in the fruit to prevent storage disorders then to encourage cropping. I don't even believe it really is very helpful in this regard- commercial growers wind up spraying the fruit with calcium to get levels up in the fruit anyway. If you google around you'll find university recommendations for pH are rather variable for apples which I find interesting. Research has not been definitive and has been limited on ideal pH. I manage an orchard that is very productive with a pH in the low 5's (sometimes owners won't allow me to spread lime) but others that seem badly affected by this low of a pH and seem to improve with aggressive liming. However, a pH between 5.8 and somewhere in the low 7's shouldn't get in the way of productivity. Shooting for 6.8 is fine- As I recall, Cornell recommends 7 for apples. I completely agree that eliminating weeds during establishment is very important- sometimes not enough though. In home orchard sites there are often established large trees with massive root systems that compete the hell out of new trees- especially peaches. In my experience, the most important single issue is having a soil with excellent drainage. That is something that must be dealt with before the trees go into the ground. Like everything else, you do your research and the best you can and then solve the unexpected problems one at a time.

A few more thoughts: A compost pile made with fresh manure will run hot and will not have worms in it to begin with. Decomposition is done by a wide variety of microbes and insects at higher temps. Worms only inhabit cool piles. The 'worms' that affect animals are different species entirely from earthworms and one should not assume that medications for one will affect the other. They might, they might not. Finally, vet drugs (and human ones too for that matter) undergo a battery of tests in order to be registered for sale in the US. This includes internal metabolism, where and how much of the original compound is excreted, and how fast it breaks down after that. So there is at least some attention paid to that issue. The dilution effect and the general probability of breakdown causes me to not worry about vet medications in manure. I am much more concerned about the persistent herbicides in the hay they ate because there is actual evidence of it harming gardens.

Thanks Jeri. Yes, I agree about using other methods IF THEY WORK. HOWEVER, I tried everything on this hedge, Jeri, for YEARS. Beneficials included. I started with water jets, and went on to beneficials then safer soap. NOthing was working. The problem was SEVERE and intolerable--- as in a 30 foot long by 12 foot tall hedge almost completely covered in white fuzzy stuff with honeydew dripping. YUK. Tried diazinon--yuk-- as we were desperate---and no, they came back with a vengeance. The Bayer product was a godsend (and much less harmful than diazinon)IMHO!!! No spraying for almost one full year now! Once a year on the hedge in spring to never have the problem again is worth it IMO! Wayne, I agree with Jeri on trying non-poisonous product first. If those work for you great. If you find the need for more, check on the Bayer link above. There are some products there specifically for whiteflies on edibles. Becky

Hi Saintpfla Since you probably heard all the possible answers on your citrus problems, I am going to tell you what I know and saw at Echo last time that I was there in the tour for the fruit trees and people asked the same questions like you did. The expert planted the tree for demonstration in a mound, he said so the rains don't flood the tree. Made a hole without amending and put the tree in, situated so it looked the best and then added compost only on the sides. The older citrus trees had a big mulch on the sides but without touching the trunk (important) a lot of people asked about this and he said is okay. After that he went on to the bugs that affect the citrus like thrips and he said this year with the cold they had not much problem but otherwise they spray some sort of oil, somebody asked neem? and he said no, he did not give the name because I don't think is available for us. Now I have my private story to tell you, just remember I am no expert. I had wonderful citrus in Arizona, never had a problem or bugs or disease, did not even look at them and they had a crop that I had to give it away. They had small rocks underneath because I xeriscape in my yard. Now when I came to this house I bought some citrus, few of the same varieties like my neighbor, I only found that out when I went to visit her place because she asked for help with the citrus. I went again recently and 2 of her trees are dead and the same 2 of mine are still alive. I went over what they do and what I do, and this is what we did differently, she fertilize with some sort of spikes, I use the Sunniland brand for citrus. When we got hit with the winter, I cover just the trunks of the trees, she only covered the tops. Sometimes when I spray the tomatoes, I will use the leftover spray on the citrus, she does not use anything because she said some expert told her the damage of thrips is only cosmetic. If you try to foliar feed when is not hot just early morning or evening there is a chelated citrus nutritional spray by Southern Ag that you can get I think at HD. I hope that you get your citrus back to health and producing for you. Silvia