Wow, the flame wars are still going on. But, it sure makes for an interesting read. Been too busy at work to follow them for a while. I still pose my previous question from a few days ago -- Where is all of this moral outrage when the animal being killed isn't cute, fuzzy, and something that showed up in a Disney movie? Other than one poster, no one seems to care about moles, voles, squash borers, slugs, etc., but they are all 'God's creatures' are they not? Perhaps it's symptomatic of the society we live in -- would the media follow the daily ups and downs of Britney, Paris, Tom-Kat, or BrAngelina if they weren't the 'beautiful people?' I think the animal rights bleeding hearts are only concerned about the cute, fuzzy little critters. Despite the fact that one poster seems to think I'm some kind of psychopathic serial killer because I put out poison bait blocks for the voles, it seems to me that I and the vast majority of the rest of the posters on here recognize the need to control vermin species when they get out of hand. If we don't keep things like mice, voles, rats, etc., under control, we'll all end up living in filth and disease as happened during the Middle Ages. And, in the real world, the only practical way to do this is often to kill them. It doesn't mean it's 'fun,' but sometimes, 'a man's gotta do ....' And, it isn't based on some deep, dark psychological 'need' to harm animals, its based on a simple, pragmatic desire to protect all of our hard work and our financial investment. Trust me, been there, done that, I really did have a blue heron eat $500 worth of koi in an afternoon. No, I didn't kill it or shoot it, I strung fishline all across the pond, which was a pain in the butt, but it worked to deter the herons. Had that not worked, in that case, I would have been screwed, because herons are protected under the Migratory Bird Act of 1919, no exceptions that I know of allow them to be killed. I did lose many of hundreds of dollars worth of plants to voles in the past few years. Some of them were figs and other woody plants I was overwintering in a deep trench under mulch. When I dug them out in the spring, I LITERALLY had sawdust, nothing else was left. So, I now put out, carefully, in nooks and crannies where pets and desirable wild animals can't get them, LOTS of poison bait blocks. It's expensive, and frankly I wish I didn't have to, but it's better than the alternative of being overrun with voles. The poison bait keeps them to a low level, but doesn't totally eliminate them. I had a filthy mouse invade my house a few years back. I won't be a hypocrit myself and deny that I didn't get some little sense of satisfaction in hearing the mousetrap go 'snap' when I finally got the mouse that moved into my kitchen cupboards, but I hardly think that makes me a depraved Jeffrey Dahmer type serial killer. There's a big difference between people who are killing 'vermin' species for a legitimate economic or health reason, and between those mentally disturbed or sociopathic individuals who do torture animals, usually domestic animals, for some sick reason. I think the vast majority of us know the difference between a vole or squirrel and the neighbor's cat. And, I don't see how taking a little satisfaction in eliminating a serious pest problem which has been plaguing you makes someone a bad person. Now, when you take it to the level of George W. going after Saddam Hussein on contrived charges, just to show up or show off to his daddy, well, that's a whole 'nother ball of wax, starting a war, killing thousands of people, and sinking this country into a political and economic quagmire. When it rises to that level, then, I think you can legitimately ask questions about someone's psychological makeup and mental stability. But, those of us shooting a squirrel or two to save our fruit trees don't exactly rise to the George W. level. I apologize to any Neocons and Bush supporters out there, dont' want to turn this into a purely political debate,just had to vent a bit and make that analogy. By the way, for the squirrel huggers out there, are you aware of the fact that some communities BAN or LIMIT the feeding of squirrels and other wild animals and birds BECAUSE feeding them is a public health and safety issue? Roseville, Michigan is one such community, and there are others. And, while rare, squirrels CAN transmit rabies, among other diseases. Finally, a couple of other thoughts. Lobster -- yum! And, as someone named Dave pointed out above, I don't know WHY I'm wasting my time arguing this with someone who very well might be some 14 year old idealist who has never lived in the real world. Ah, the joys of the 'net. Allenwrench -- you might really enjoy this forum. Check it out, seems to be right up your alley, based upon all of your recent posts: http://www.idigmygarden.com/forums/ Dennis SE Michigan Dennis SE Michigan Here is a link that might be useful: I Dig My Garden Forums

I'll tell you what kept them from munching away at our deer corn. Hell it keeps everything away from the corn now except the deer, turkey and hogs. Everything is gone now - mockingbirds, gophers, crows especially, prairie dogs, etc... Owl or hawk decoys. But you have to move them every couple of days to make the scene look more real. They will catch on QUICK if the decoys stay in the same spot for more than a couple of days. If this doesn't work, use a small game trap from your local feed store. Bait it with whole pecans, nuts, corn, or apples. Release them at your local park or cemetary. Hate to disappoint you but 99.9999% of squirrels won't eat poison. That's why you can't go into Home Depot and ask for "Squirrel poison." It doesn't exist. I don't care what any website wants to sell you. They are too smart to eat it. Just trap and release but I'm betting the owl or hawk decoy will work. Keep us updated. By the way I shopped around for owl decoys online and found 4 at my local flea market the next day for $2 each and they're going on 5 years old now and still look brand new. I filled mine with cement and a metal spike that I drive it into the ground with.

I haven't had to protect an entire backyard from squirrels. We have three regular squirrel visitors which I love. (They do disturb the soil in my potted plants trying to bury nuts, but I just try to live with it). When they began eating the flowerstalks on my newly planted Heucheras (coral bells), I sprinkled red pepper in a solid ring on the ground around each plant. It worked pretty well. I had to reapply after watering. After about a month I stopped applying the red pepper (got lazy) but the squirrels did not resume eating the flowerstalks, so it turned out okay. I am guilty of providing peanuts to squirrels (well, it is actually my elderly mother who does). But since every neighbor around me has basically turned their backyards into hardscape when they 'improved' their homes, the squirrels do not have as many places to hang out as they used to. Their population has declined too, of course. And my 11-year-old dog is finally old and wise enough to be able to ignore the squirrels (most of the time). Not sure why your squirrels are digging up grass?

A big THANK YOU for the "bucket of death" idea!!!! I have lost a season's worth of strawberries (wouldn't have hurt so much if they hadn't taken just a couple of bites and gone on to the next berry and even ate the green ones); I probably don't need to include the holes there. I thought our drought conditions were hurting a lovely Korean Spice Bush; odd, the other plants are doing well. Since every place else in the bed is open ground, under the bush things are hidden, so I looked and yup, there was a hole. Have been seeing a chipper for a while but never connected it to tree damage. And have been weeding and finding only the outer skins of crocus and hardly any larger ones. And my little fritilaries are down to three. That HURTS! The last straw was hearing noises from the air vents. I live in a mobile home with the skirting insulated. The little buggers are getting in somewhere. When my cats sit at the vents for an hour they are either listening for mice and apparently chipmunks. It wouldn't take them much to get inside here from underneath. I tried snap traps but kept catching birds hungry because of the drought. SO: went out and bought me a bucket and some seed and made me a "bucket of death". And guess what? Caught one first night! I noticed that there were a few spaces in the floating seeds; that's a good indication of a dead chipper. I also checked along the back of my home where the ground meets the concrete slab and behold, a hole under the stairs (in the general direction of said noises). Took a waste basket and did the "bucket" thing again. I used a 2x6" board for the one out front; stuck a few seeds onto the end with PB but those weren't touched. Out back I just put a few seeds on a step. Haven't checked that one yet though. Weather will soon be turning cold and I don't want to share my home with these destructive critters, not to mention their fleas and ticks and diseases.