Sorry didn't chance to get back here. I go through so many forums on GW that I have to make the "rounds". LOL! John - we have alot of crapes in the landscape here in the Philly/Delaware County area. These are no longer die-backs in city locations (meaning they don't die back to the roots and they sprout their new leaves from the canopy) and are seen more and more in the landscape at 10 - 15ft tall and getting bigger every year. People are even planting them in their front yards away from the house. There are all sorts here - particularly ones like the popular and hardy "Natchez", "Sioux", "Tonto", etc. I think what has helped is that the lowest temps here haven't gotten below 0° F since 1994. I have a "Victor" crape which is a dwarf and it literally hasn't grown to more than 3ft in its 14" container. It's starting to bloom now itself. The figs were very slow to sprout due to the very cool spring but I am looking at expanding the selection. I bought my sister and brother-in-law a Celeste last summer for in-ground, had them plant it at the SW corner of their house, it made it through the winter with protection and is growing pretty well in the heat. Haven't been by there to see what's happening with it but as long as it is establishing itself (it was a 4ft baby), that's fine with me. As for amount of sun - Since I am up about 150ft or so in the sky with nothing to block the sun like trees or buildings (other than the hills about 5 miles to the NE of me, although I'm on a hill myself about 400ft above sea level), in summer, I get sun from sunrise at ~5:50am until about 11 am (or later for those plants that have branches hanging over the rail that can catch a couple more hours of "rays" before the sun goes up over and behind the building). I have seen sun on an extended branch of my tropical hibiscus until almost 1pm. And since I am on the end on the western side of the building, I can get about 3 - 4 hours more of afternoon sun over on the western corner of the balcony as it sets (from about 4pm until sunset ~8:30pm or so). Thus I try to put some of the real sun lovers over on the western end of the balcony so they can get sun in the front and later, sun from the side and rear during summer. Only thing is that it is windy over on that side. Good luck with the camera! I hope to eventually get a pic of my opuntia humifusa in bloom next year. It's growing quite a few pads now. I've overwintered it outside the past 2 winters in a clay pot (my only plant in a clay pot) and it shrivels down during winter and plumps back up each spring. I think that it needs more sun earlier in the season to get the bloom triggered though... something I have to think about with respect to where to place it. Cady - I've had a number of evergreens over the years - mostly different pierises as it's one of my favorites. I actually have a minature one out there right now that is new and it's sortof lost in the shade of other stuff. My honeysuckles are semi-evergreen but what usually gets things out there are the dessicating winds in late winter. Even with some of the protection schemes, it has been difficult finding a good spot to put evergreens where they're not in an eventual wind tunnel. But I'll keep experimenting! I have a heuchera this year and those are supposed to be evergreen so I'll see how that goes. You mention willows and I have a pussy willow (Salix discolor) out there that has been forming its catkins for next year.

Interesting to hear about other MG courses and goals. In So NV we are taught to prepare, plant, and maintain veggie gardens, home yards, flowers, trees, etc. We generally are taught diseases of plants that we can identify, maladies that beset plants, wrong growing practices, etc. But we are not expected to be fully trained Horticulturists or Botanists. We have projects all over the Las Vegas Valley at schools, hospitals, hospices, neighborhood parks, an orchard, an air force base. We spend time on the phones answering questions, or researching questions so we answer properly. We volunteer at many MG question tables at Farmer Markets, the State Fair, gardens throughout the valley, libraries, and gardening clubs. We learn as we go and do not attempt to be experts right out of classes. We pay $150.00, spend 80 hrs, received 3 books, a botany book, a Sunset book, and a desert gardening book, all extremely useful for gardening in this area. My thoughts on the original poster is that the MG program could not see how they could use someone well educated in wine grapes for their program. Any growing experience is valuable to any gardening experience. Sorry you got turned away. Work independently or with gardening clubs to move further in this endeavor. Good luck.

Seems to me that if they invite people to join and then reject someone, they should at least explain why that person was rejected. Knowing what I know about this program I am not the least bit surprised to hear about this issue. Serious question, not trying to be hurtful in the least: I am curious, why did you want this so much that your feelings would be hurt so badly upon being rejected? I would really like to hear your response to this question. The rest of this post is mainly just my ranting. :-) Many people think this program is a farce. The MG's around here are called "those plant snobs" by all the "lesser" people for the snooty, critical attitudes they have towards other gardeners. They have their own exclusive club and the only way in is to become a MG and be recommended by a current member. What a childish joke. I remember having a club like that - when I was 8 freaking years old. Heck, I would not be a bit surprised if they even have a secret password to get in to the clubhouse. I know some folks who never graduated high school who have more intuitive gardening skill, general plant knowledge, and gardening experience in their callused arthritic pinky fingers than some of the MGs I know. I do not know about you, but I would rather hang around those folks any day to discuss gardening topics, versus hanging around with a bunch of self-absorbed MGs. And I do not want anyone telling me about the volunteer work that all the MGs do. I, and many other people I know, volunteer time and offer assistance and advice to new gardeners, and give away lots of starter plants and extra produce from our vegetable gardens every year. We do this out of the kindness of our hearts and because we enjoy doing it and feel good about it. The MGs "volunteer" because the program requires it, and they do projects that are highly visible and they make sure they get the credit or a writeup in the local paper. Pathetic. Do you realize you could be paying up to $575 ($275 for the class fee plus $300 potential fine) for that MG adventure if you drop out of the internship before fulfilling the educational and volunteering requirements? See if there is a local plant or growers club you can join that relates more specifically to your interests. Or bury yourself in horticultural research and learn about those same topics that are discussed in the MG education program. You can do it all yourself by using free online source material. You do not need to be part of some exclusive group or program to do these things. So the MG program rejected you? In my opinion they did you a favor. You can do all kinds of horticultural and gardening related volunteer work on your own, you do not need that organization to tell you what to do. And when you do some of that volunteering you will not only feel rightfully proud of what you are doing but you will meet decent, friendly people and will undoubtedly make some wonderful friendships as a result. Isn't that kinda the point? Best regards, -Tom

'U' are preaching to the choir here...