Ray, Thanks for the advice.It sounds like a good system. michelle

Terrene, The ancient martins of the past once nested in hollow tree snags,old woodpecker holes,etc and some including myself think they mave have used rocky outcroppings,cliffsides,and river banks very similar to how the Rough Winged Swallow,Barn,and the Cliff Swallow nests today. To me this would explain their use of mud in their nests. There would be no need for mud in a deep woodpecker cavity or tree hollow but maybe the ancient martins used mud to seal off a rock crevice or something similar?? All fun questions to think about and wonder. The native American Indians of the south first started attracting martins by using gourds. Most likely it happened by accident as the Indians hung the gourds to dry. Well maybe the mice(that love to eat gourd seeds)got into them as they hung there in the winter drying. They ate a hole in the gourd and in the spring the martins took them. After the Indians noticed this they liked the martins and then started purposely hanging the gourds for them? Again fun questions to think about. When the white man settled in this country they began to build wooden houses for martins along with adopting the Indians practice of hanging gourds and then the stage was set for making the Purple Martin so dependant on man for housing as they are today. I think that in ancient days of this country when the great forests once dominated that the martins were not as common as they are today with the increased open area and that is most likely true. However the greatest threat to martins now is their need for man made housing and of course their number one enemies the Starlings and the House Sparrows. When these two birds came on the scene they slowly began to push out the martins wherever they became common. Gone were the days of simply putting up a martin house with 2 inch round holes in it and forgetting about it. Same with the Bluebirds and if it were not for the 1 and 1\2 inch entrance hole in BB Boxes the Eastern Bluebird would not be near as common as they are now. The 1 and 1\2 hole stopped the starlings and then they only had the House Sparrows to deal with. Fortunately for the Purple Martin there are now SREH(Starling Resistent Entrance Holes)and they have helped martins everywhere now not have to deal with starlings and wherever this is happening the martins are doing great. My site is nearly 100% clinger SREH now and it is such a sitisfying feeling knowing the martins are protected from those nest stealing,murdering starlings. Martins can deal with the sparrows to a point but not starlings and having the SREH is the only way to go these days if you seek a martin colony. I have been a martin landlord since I was 11 years old Terrene and all. I never tire of watching them and they are such a great part of summertime in this country. They are as American as baseball,apple pie,your Grandma's country biscuits,etc..smile..Thanks to all people who now use the SREH and trap and control the House Sparrows at their martin colonies. It simply helps the martins bigtime and so many other native songbirds continue to exist and live free and un harrassed in their own country. Man has in a way changed the nesting habits of the martins and this one question is always in my mind when I watch them. What would happen if all of a sudden man stopped supplying them housing?? Would their ancient instincts kick back in and send them back to cliffs,riverbanks,hollows,etc??? That is a lot to ponder right there I know that...Mike

Thanks again Kendra, Sue, etc. I REALLY want to put the DRST back out but I'm worried there won't be a good enough place where it'll be hidden, and not attract predators like Hawks and Raccoons which could get my bluebirds. I heard HOSP nestlings on this woman's property. They nest in her pine trees. I have 3 properties under control from HOSP. This is the ONE area they are coming from. Her husband suggested if I do it, to do it away from them. Oh the irony!! That's where the HOSP are coming from to begin with! Guess you can't win em all. Luckily they sold the alpacas they had...one time before they said there were birds in there, sparrows, but they didn't stop them I don't believe. So they were probably multiplying more back then. The barns they were in have been closed since last fall. Previously there were HOSP and Starlings in them. So, really, how vulnerable are juvenile HOSP to the DRST?! Does anyone think I'd have a good chance of trapping them after fledging? Unfortunately I can't rip their nests from the trees like I do with the other neighbor's. The 3 plots are the one I rent, the landlords' where my bluebirds are, and the 3rd is where the martin housing is. adjacent is her property. Confusing, I know. Try to be vigilant with this youngster ^^

I was afraid that might be the case, they all look around the same size (martins) and info I found today said that the martins usually start to arrive here in February and look for nesting spots. In addition to All the other potential dangers/problems with the house/location where these martins are possibly planning to nest and raise babies, same neighbors also have a HAMM RADIO tower in their back yard and every year around late spring/ summer a great horned owl perches up there on and off and and hoots, I've heard him and seen him up there several nights in a row before. Is there anything I can do at this point, like put up a safe Martin house, or will they stay there now regardless? I'm hoping that if I talk to neighbors and explain the situation, they will do something about it. I feel sick at the thought of the martins going through whole process and end up losing babies or being harmed themselves. If I thought there was a possibility that they would relocate this late in the game, I'd gladly put up a safe place for them to nest and make sure it stays that wAy, although I'd be learning as I go, ughh, whole situation makes me nervous. I'm going to post the pics of the house and the birds tonight, I'm pretty sure the house is not the ideal layout either, it has little porches with metal railings on both floors and another railing across top and from what I've read so far, that makes it easy for owls to get to them. Thanks