no experience, but this would be a great example of why people often don't pull permits. Too much red tape, and it sounds like you're trying to comply yet they're trying to discourage you from installing it. It also sounds like the mfr knows people are doing this, and/or your locality has really strict requirements. If you didn't pull a permit, have you put yourself on a list that the city will come back to some day looking to see if it's there? Or do they do drive-bys looking for improvements (not uncommon in my area)? Would this become a huge problem then? I'd ask myself that before I made a final decision. For all the additional costs w/a permit, I'd want to be growing some rare orchids or something to justify it, unless you're rich lol.

Sunnyday - Where are you located? I am wondering what nursery is operational in January around here. It is March now and I still have plants encased in ice outdoors at my nursery. I think the most important criterium in selecting plants to grow is figuring out what isn't readily available or is in short supply. There are certainly a lot of things you could grow, but growing on a small scale, you won't be able to compete on price with the big nurseries and chain stores. If you are growing from seed, there are a tremendous number of annuals and perennials that you can start that are not commonly available. This will take some time, visiting stores and farmers' markets, to see what is being offered and at what prices. The other approach is to grow plants you like yourself with the assumption that other people will like them as well. Good luck! P.S. Happy birthday.

Thanks Karyn. Well, what you can see there is basically the SMALL part of my yard! I have just under 1/2 acre so the area to the left of my pool area is about twice as big as the whole area seen in the pic, and it is basically empty. The open space is great right now for the kids' trampoline and lots of room for soccer, football, frisbee, etc. Though I am starting to plan for that area for trees along the fence, etc. and a whole Plumie grove! I can envision an area with a hammock surrounded by blooming plumies! LOL! Eventually I may consider a greenhouse as well. I'll try to get some more pics posted. Kevin

get inspired with a book on japanese gardens. They are the masters of shade. Some large rocks and a water feature along with ferns and shade tolerant bamboo. Add some seating and you will feel so relaxed everytime you go out there. My friend did an all green shady space and its so calming. Also it feels cool and inviting. Water is the key. The great thing about japanese design is that you can just do a small part of your yard and get big results. The rest of the space you can use to have a patio or build raised beds or mounds and grow some fantastic plants and flowers. I think having different levels in a yard makes it seem much larger. We have ours flatter and more open near the house for entertaining and built some little hills using big rocks in the rear. People get drawn back to the more wooded section where the water is. The sound of the water just reaches the rear door of the house. The great thing about gardening is that you can always change your mind later. I have seen more charming shady spaces than sunny ones. Grass isnt everything.