The bottom line is, you came here with both guns blasting about how we're all somehow stupid or gullible for buying seeds and then drew a ton of conclusions about us. I think most members of this forum are offended by your initial post. It is obvious that you DO have experience growing your own produce, but you also list some special circumstances. Namely, access to incredible farmer's markets that simply do not exist everywhere. If I had access to fantastic tomatoes a 10 minute drive away, I wouldn't be putting so much sweat equity into growing a garden. Most of the "Farmer's Markets" around here are now starting to look like a dumping ground for excess grocery store produce. I rarely find a variety that you can't find in a grocery store. Most of us don't have "source material" (i.e. fantastic watermelons, tomatoes, etc.) that we can copy. My initial motivations to grow a garden this year were because the quality of the tomatoes, watermelons, etc. at the store are down the toilet and red bell peppers cost $2+. So this year, the goal was to supplement the grocery store. Next year the goal is to partially REPLACE the grocery store. I am increasing the number of crops from 5 to 30. I don't have any agendas except to demystify things that are sometimes presented as mysterious. I really appreciate all the no-nonsense posting on this forum. I just think you made a lot of assumptions and tried to preach something that just isn't possible in most areas of the country. Some people don't have time to do what you suggested. Realize that these "seed catalogs" you see posted here all the time didn't start out that way. When the great "hybrid" exodus started happening, a few interested parties started saving seeds from desirable plants and growing them again each year. Then people started mailing seeds (for free) through the mail to each other. Then the Seed Savers Exchange formed, which was an annual "Yearbook" where these varieties (that most people didn't and still don't have access to) were listed and people traded with each other through the mail. No profit was involved. It was an attempt to save these varieties that industry forgot. Now, fast forward to 2006 and it's the "I want it now" society. Yes, I could trade by mail (which I am loathe to do) to try to get the seeds I want, but if I can go to a website, make a few clicks, punch in my CC, hit ORDER, and have varieties that I would have to scour the US to get, hell yes it's worth $2 a package for several year's worth of plants. And I will probably try to save seed from my tomatoes this year. But I have to start somewhere. There are very desireable species that are simply unavailable at the market. For example Brandy Boy. It is a hybrid, so you cannot save the seed. But you won't find it at a farmer's market either. I suppose I could hop on a plane and fly to these heirloom tomato markets in the midwest and new england states (been a long time since I visited where I grew up). But again, a packet of seeds for $2 is reasonable. And we keep bandying about this $2 price. I bought a ton of seeds at Home Depot for 40% off yesterday (avg. 89 cents to $1.25 a packet). And I filled in the remainder from HeirloomSeeds.com which averages $1.15 to $1.50 a packet. Extremely reasonable. $80 to get the seeds to start a garden and last a few years is not a big deal compared to the money spent on lumber, soil, trellising materials, etc. Yes it's possible to do these all on the cheap but this is what I've chosen to do. Now that I am started, I am going to recycle as much as I can. I've got a big compost pile going (and a new friend on a horse farm). I'm going to work the soil with leaves and grass from neighbors. But I have to start somewhere. Can we agree that your original post was, in some ways, rude? Originally posted by squeeziemonkey: I got dozens and dozens of people that do what I do and, like me have NEVER had an issue. The same thing exists here. It's called the Seed Savers Exchange. It's an organization that fosters saving of seeds from varieties and trading them by mail, etc. No profits involved. Just saving varieties from extinction and distributing germplasm across the country. Originally posted by squeeziemonkey: We are not experts or trying to talk to God or start a movement or anything... And yet that's exactly what your original post sounded like. We're all fools for buying seeds. We should start a movement to buy our "crops" from farmer's markets and stop using seed companies. I don't see how your original post could be seen as anything OTHER than some kind of "call to action". P.S. I'd be curious to know how you are getting seeds for cauliflower, broccoli, brussels sprouts, carrots, parsnips, beets, lettuce, etc. which must all be grown significantly past their harvest date in order to get seeds (carrots have to be grown for a whole second season).

Julie, I am sorry you won't be able to attend the swap, and I do hope you maybe just happen to stumble across a Brandy Boy somewhere. I'm sorry to hear you work for a CEO who makes such "brilliant" (or not-so-brilliant) decisions. Those evening students should be mad that no one is there to assist them. Maybe if you asked Lisa Merrell to add it, she'd grow a few next year. (Because of the high cost of the seed though, i wouldn't blame her if she declined to grow it.) She does have a handful of hybrids on her grow list I think. Have you tried Randy's Brandy from The Tomatoman's Daughter? I haven't grown it, but many who have grown it speak very highly of it. I love the original Brandywine but it only produces a fairly large crop for me about 1 year in 10, so I finally have decided not to grow it any more. Having Brandy Boy, which is very close in flavor most years, made that decision easier. Dawn

I'd try again Bets and just copy and paste it in the code bar on the order page. When I typed it in I got the same message - guess it didn't like the spacing or something. But the copy and paste went right through. Dave

Lar - I don't fertilize the micro or 2" soil blocks at all. I don't fertilize until I have planted the 2" block into a larger container - then I fertilize weekly from that point on - with a liquid (mixed from a powder) 9-58-8 root and blooming fertilizer with iron. Do you fertilize the soil blocks? If so - what do you use? Nice looking Brandy Boys Socalgal! Yours look great also Antmary! We water from the bottom - the 3/4" soil blocks are set on a capillary mat in a tray - they don't break apart on us when we water them this way. We water the mat around the perimeter being careful to not pour water directly on the blocks. The 2" soil blocks are placed in a rack that is made to sit inside a Perma-Tray - We lift the rack with the 2" soil blocks out - place water in the perma-tray - then put the rack back in. The Blocks do not fall apart but we are careful to only put about a 1/2" water in the perm-tray so the blocks are not over watered. We move the 2" blocks to pots when the plants are ready.