Herbicide drift

12 years ago

I am so upset! After not growing my own tomatoes last summer due to a move in the middle of the summer and a miserable growing season the year before, I was so excited to have eleven healthy plants in the ground late April. Most are varieties I have never grown that I got from Craig Lehoullier, including three from his dwarf tomato project. They were doing exceptionally well, growing by leaps and bounds with buds on most plants. Last week I noticed my Lucky Cross had severe leaf curl on the top three branches. This week my German Strawberry Heart showed the same symptoms only worse. On the top three branches the leaves were severely curled and very withered looking. And then it came to me. My neighbors landscape maintenance crew is spraying weeds right on the other side of my 6 foot privacy fence! I called the company and asked them very nicely to not spray the beds on the other side of the fence. They suggested the leaf curl was probably due to the colder weather and the ungodly amount of rain. I told them that could be a possible answer, but more likely herbicide drift as only the top three branches were effected and kindly asked them again, as a precaution, to not spray in the beds on the other side of the fence. She said she would inform the crew. They are here again today. Keeping my fingers crossed they don't ignore my request. The Lucky Cross seems to be pulling out of it, but I think the German Strawberry is questionable. With only eleven plants this year, I would be devastated to lose even one to a lawn maintenance company! Just needed to vent....now to go speak with the crew directly.

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Comments (14)

jrslick (North Central Kansas, Zone 5B)
12 years ago
Find out what they sprayed. I would be willing it was 2-4D.

Did they spray the plants directly or was it drift or even volitization. Most of my tomatoes are growing out of the Volitization of 2-4 D in my high tunnel.

Keep the plants well watered, don't fertilize. If it was just drift, they will grow out of it. They may be delayed, but they should live.

I am speaking from experience and the answers I got for the same problem.

Jay
digdirt2
12 years ago
If they insist on continuing the spray program then ask to be informed in advance so you can cover your plants.

Dave
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It's possible, if there is enough wind, and if he is careless about how he sprays. I spray roundup around my own fruit trees and veggies and have never had a problem. I spray when there is no wind and keep the sprayer nozzle right down on the plant I am after. Plus I stay back away from my fruit trees. I suggest that you very politely tell your neighbor that you are worried about drift and very politely request that he not use herbicide any time that there is wind blowing over towards your veggie patch. You could offer to give him some ripe tomatoes, if he doesn't have his own veggies. I don't know what he is spraying, but most herbicides don't have any residual effect. Sunlight neutralizes them. Plant disease is different. That can get into your soil and wait there.
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Dawn, When they first started here many said it was too far north and the yields were low. I've seen the best looking cotton this summer that I've seen since they started growing it here. Taller and bushy and already getting ready to flower. When they started they had only a very short window to plant in. No chance for a replant here. Now I understand they have some varieties that germinate better in cooler soil. Some of the cotton this year was planted a lot earlier. I know when they started they would plant around June 1st. Now I heard most were done before June 1st. The Cotton Root Rot must be why they moved up here. I was told and know in several of the areas in the South Plains of TX they had to quit growing it because of something in the soil and the gins closed. Many jumped in and grew it when they started and then it tapered off. Last year acreage was way down. But as yields have picked up acreage is coming back some I hear. A spraying accident is a lot easier to take when the responsible person is truly sorry and it was an accident. Once in a while you will get the person who doesn't seem to care and obnoxious. You couldn't believe the way the people that worked for this sprayer talked to those that called. First it was obvious who was involved as we could see the plane taking off from and landing for refill at the airport 1/2 mile away. And then we all knew the farmer who farmed the field and he told us who the sprayer was. First there was the how do you know it was us? Then the you should expect that when you live next to a farm field. And then "the wind has been blowing and we are behind and can't wait for it blow out of the right direction and we have to make a living. Your garden is just a hobby. " I bit my tongue and went on. Not so sure i would today. The wind is blowing over 30 mph again at times and over 90. This is the third day in a row. Starting to think we are going to have another summer like last year. My plants had looked good till noon today. Checked them this morning and watered what I felt needed it. Last night my sister said they lost a plant in a container yesterday. They have theirs on the east side of their house so they have wind protection and shade. When I went out at noon all 3 container plants looked almost dead. I can't figure out why. Those I had sitting in cups in the containers but hadn't transplanted yet looked fine. I transplanted one of them to see how it will do. They were put in the containers about 3 days ago. The soil was moist. A few of the in the ground plants looked droopy also. I thought about spray as the worst ones were all in the same area. Even the ones in the ground. But not convinced that is it. Guess if someone would of sprayed in the wind it easily could of happened. Then while trying to do a few things I broke off another plant. Hasn't been the best week for me. I have got a lot of my planting done and getting things watered good. Supposed to cool off for a few days. The rain last night missed us again by a few miles. I was about to the point when I saw things after dinner to just call off the season. Probably as frustrating a two years I've ever had gardening. It has to get better. I dumped half of last year's mix out of the containers and mixed in new with it. The one I planted today I planted in all fresh MG regular mix to see if there is something wrong with the mix. I did add a handful of bone meal and a little of a mix of cottonseed, soybean and a few alfalfa pellets I had in a bucket. But have done that to every hole I've planted and no problems but in the containers and the plants right next to them. Jay
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Amy, That's a really good point, and in terms of what to do with suspect materials that might usually go on the compost pile, I've been composting them separately for about 10 years. I don't know what anyone else does, but when I have plants that are hit by herbicide drift, I don't put them in my normal compost pile. I put them in a pile further away from the house and garden, and I never really use that compost. I have the pile in a sloping area where rain runoff had eroded the soil and made a big gully. As the compost pile decomposes, I just leave it there and it is filling in the eroded gully (slowly but surely). I also put all our chicken manure/bedding from the chicken coops in that area instead of using it in the main compost pile because the herbicide carryover damage you've read about now has reached the commercial animal feed industry. For the most part, the herbicide carryover involves very a very specific type of herbicide (picloram, aminopyralid, clopyralid and others in that class) that is sprayed on grassy fields, pastures, park ground, golf courses, etc. to kill broadleaf weeds in grass. This class of herbicides has been contaminating garden soil, compost, animal manures, hay, straw, etc. since around the year 2000. Once the herbicide carryover became a widespread issue, I stopped bringing in much of anything from outside our property to use in the garden. I still buy Black Kow manure every now and then, because I have used it forever with no problem and I guess I'll still keep buying it until/unless a problem develops, but otherwise, no amendments get added to my garden unless I am positive they would not be contaminated---and the only way to be sure of that is to maintain total control over what goes into your garden. It is kinda of a PITA---I turn down many offers from ranching neighbors who ask if I want their horse manure or cow manure, and I always decline it because even if they don't use those herbicides, there is going to be some point where they purchased hay or bagged feed, and there is a chance those were contaminated. We all have to rethink how we do things now and be very careful not to bring contaminated materials into our gardens, and that includes being careful where we put plants killed by herbicide drift. I'd rather be overly cautious, than not cautious enough. However, a person could compost these plants if they choose. All they'd have to do is test the compost with a simple bioassay test before using it, but then if they found the compost was contaminated, they'd have to let it decompose some more or use it in a grassy area or even in a corn field. Much depends on how big the compost pile is compared to how many plants were killed by the herbicide drift. Just a couple of plants added to a very large compost pile probably wouldn't contain enough of the herbicide after composting to cause a problem, but "probably" makes me uneasy, so I'd just as soon not put those plants in my main compost pile. I'll link the MEN article that discusses how it was discovered that the herbicide carryover in one product in one state ultimately was traced back to a name-brand bagged animal feed. We had long known both in this country and in Europe that herbicide carryover, often nicknamed "killer compost", had become a problem, but this was the first time they had found that the animal feed itself was contaminated. One thing about all this that really bothers me is that we've known about it for well over a decade---almost a decade and a half---and, yet, not only does it continue to happen, but it also continues to pop up in new places---like in the animal feed. I keep waiting to see if this issue will hit the wood mulch industry (or gardeners using wood chips from municipal compost facilities or tree-trimming companies) because one of the commonly-used brush killer/stump killer products in this country is Tordon, and it contains picloram. I hope that never happens, but suspect that at some point it might occur. Dawn Here is a link that might be useful: Killer Compost Article from Mother Earth News
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Amy, I can totally relate to that. Kim, I have wondered if the use of Round-Up Ready crops contributes to drift issues since it means that specific herbicide is being used more heavily by growers growing RR crops since it won't kill their crops. For a long time, the conventional wisdom was that drift generally comes from less than a mile away, but I think it comes from much further away at times. I also think some of the ester formulations of herbicides are more volatile and are related to the increase in drift. I used to only see drift damage infrequently in our early years here, and there were a lot more active farmers and ranchers around us back then. Now I see it more often, but the folks still ranching and farming near us don't seem to use herbicides that much any more. I hardly ever see one of them out in a field pulling a spray tank behind the tractor. A lot of those farms and ranches that were working operations when we moved here have been replaced by homes, businesses, etc. although, of course, residents and business owners can use herbicides too. It does really stink. I usually can look at the degree of damage and guesstimate if I think a given plant will survive. I guess correctly most of the time. The more damage to the plant, the less likely that it will survive. Some of the plants that survived the first round of drift and that had started to grow new foliage now are dying. The first round likely didn't kill them, but I think the second one will. The second round of drift also killed the morning glories growing on the fence that I hoped would serve as a living wall and would take the herbicide hit and, therefore, save the plants. With the first round, the morning glories were too short and the drift apparently went right over them. This last round got them at about 5' above the ground. That was my first clue---I was walking past the garden on my way down to the mailbox and saw the damage on the MGs, and then I looked beyond them at the adjacent tomato plants and saw the new round of damage. In our early years here, I had more glyphosate damage, but in more recent years we have had more 2, 4-d damage. Either way, it is becoming more and more of an issue. One year we had damage from both appear in the garden at the same time. In every instance that I have had herbicide drift, it has hit plants on the south or the east side of the garden, but not on the west or the north. Technically, the person spraying the herbicide is both legally and morally responsible for the damage done by herbicide drift, but it is almost impossible to prove where the drift came from. Western Farmer had a great piece about herbicide drift last year. I'll see if I can find it online and link it. Dawn Here is a link that might be useful: Herbicide Drift
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Jennie Sims
Original Author
12 years ago
Thanks Jay and Dave. I talked with the crew and they will notify me when they are going to spray. The neighbors play structure is in the bed directly behind the fence where they are spraying so liberally as there aren't any plants over there for them to worry about. They did agree not to spray there anymore "unless necessary". They did use 2-4D and it must be very capable of drifting high as it crossed over my 6 foot privacy fence and onto the tops of the plants. As a precaution, while the plants are still small enough I'll put heavy plastic bags draped over the tops of the cages as you suggested Dave.
Jennie
digdirt2
12 years ago
2-4D can drift for 1/2 a mile. Probably further on a really windy day but I learned about the 1/2 mile from personal experience.

Pro lawn care workers should already be aware of that and act accordingly, especially in populace neighborhoods, but that may be too much to expect given their mind-set.

Dave
taz6122
12 years ago
When you hit them with a lawsuit to replace the soil and plants you've put in then maybe that mindset will change! I'd inform them that If my plants don't perk up shortly after you leave I'm going to the courthouse. Their insurance will pay the first few incidences but then It's time to file charges of neglect or dangerous use of chemicals. That could be the big bucks. They should only be spraying when it's calm and with no people around. I'd be out sitting on the fence the next time they came and do some occasional choking and gagging. Then take a trip to the hospital while leaving the webcam running to get the rest of the picture. All landscaper and lawn services should know this stuff. We need to let them know they can't get away with killing our plants. My neighbors know when to spray because I told them so and if the didn't they would be buying everything to correct the problem their laziness started. When they start having to buy good lumber and good soil for raised beds because they screwed up the current soil they'll soon realize they need to be more careful.
homegardenpa
12 years ago
"They should only be spraying when it's calm and with no people around."

Yeah, this is the law - and yes, it's a law. If you're unsure, read the language on any bottle of weed-b-gone (2,4-D).

Sadly, I see lawn services spraying all the time - even on the windiest days.

I haven't seen many lawn services lately, but I can only assume that's to do with the economy - people are cutting back on herbicide / fertilizer treatments - works for me.
lee_71
12 years ago
I would suspect that even if the wind were blowing in the opposite direction, or not at all, you'd still be effected.
Tomato plants are VERY sensitive to 2-4D.
I think they can be effected by amounts as small as 3ppb (yeah, that parts per billion). What they sprayed on your
neighbor's lawn was more in line with 30,000 ppb, so it
doesn't take much for your tomato plants to show the effects.

I put dried grass clippings as a mulch on plants last year.
A few days later the tomato plants began curling. After
ruling out other possibilities, I realized that the grass
clippings had trace amounts of herbicide on them.... 7 WEEKS! after it had been put down!
Thus, tomato plants are very sensitive to this stuff.
As suggested above, water thoroughly as that will help the
plants recover. I did that last year and all of my plants
went on to produce well....

Lee

P.S. Which dwarves did you get from Craig?
mulio
12 years ago
Great, they are spraying a dioxin contaminated substance where the kids play
(likely using an ester based form which volatilizes easier and is more likely to have residual dioxin).
Jennie Sims
Original Author
12 years ago
I have watered the plants thoroughly, they still look pretty rough though. It is encouraging to hear that other people have had similar damage and their plants made it through and still produced well. I think I will lose the top three branches on the German Red Strawberry. In all my years growing tomatoes I have never tried a heart, so I am hoping this one comes through!

Lee, I have Summertime Gold, Summertime Green and Rosella Crimson. I have never seen such stocky stems on a tomato! Can't wait to taste the tomatoes to see what they are like and to see the growth habit as they mature more.
digdirt2
12 years ago
One of my sons lives in a HOA where some of the neighbors would rather give up their children than give up their lawn care service but some are open to discussions about it.

So how open are your neighbors to discussions about the hazards of these types of sprays and their associated lawn care services? Hazards not just to your plants but to themselves. Could this be an "opportunity to educate" or not?

Dave
Jennie Sims
Original Author
12 years ago
Taz, maybe I should sue for a "broken" heart! LOL
taz6122
12 years ago
Don't think that's possible but I'm sure you could for improper use of chemicals or reckless endangerment or something along those lines. They're not supposed to spray at all in wind and especially if a person is around. I'm not the kind of person that would sue for any ole thing but if someone ruined my crop due to ignorance I'd be looking to any way I could. They need to pay for plant and soil replacement.
I've already educated my neighbors and if the city or county sprays something that hurts my plants you can bet I'd go after them for replacement.
Jennie Sims
Original Author
12 years ago
Dave, we don't know the neighbors very well, but I think they are like your son's neighbors in the HOA. Very young, 30 something, very moneyed for their age, with very young children that are never outside. Everything in and around their house is taken care of by someone else. Even their cars are washed once a week by someone who comes and details them in the driveway. I don't think they would be open to this kind of discussion. I wish I could. I called the landscape company again today and they were very receptive. They will not spray unless they call me a day in advance, and will not spray near the fence nor if it is windy. I have worked with this company and purchased from them often (they also have a garden center) so know they will do their best.
The two plants are still suffering. Hopefully they will make it.
mulio
12 years ago
If you called the NCDA you could report it and have an inspector come out to take samples/document.

IF there was any action it would not likely be on the home owners at all. The company could be made to reimburse losses and possible face a fine.

Herbicide drift

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jrslick (North Central Kansas, Zone 5B)

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