Magicman,

It depends - I tend to sow perennials more thinly than annuals that I will plant out in hunks (the "hunk 'o seedlings" method mentioned on the Winter Sowing forum). For instance, I use mostly gallon milk jugs to sow. Where I might plant 6-8 perennial seeds (say, coneflower) in a jug, I might plant 25-50 alyssum. Generally, smaller seeds are harder to control, and I'll put more in a jug just to make sure I get good germination, but that can backfire (I had TONS of nicotiana 'Lime Green' sprout last year, and I had to thin them to plant them out, but the seed was so TINY I dumped practically the whole packet in one container by mistake). Some things I want in very small quantities (or things that don't like to be disturbed too much when transplanted) I plant in tall foam cups, or the tall clear cups I save from my favorite coffee shop, so I can get a good deep root run. In a cup that size I might plant only 3-6 seeds of any kind.

So, I guess the relevent questions are: what containers are you using? what are you growing? how many of each kind do you want? That said, this isn't a hard and fast science. If you're not sure, plant a few extra in each container - you can always thin what sprouts if you get too much, but NO sprouts is no fun at all. And, some things you hover over and baby will do NOTHING, and some things you ignore or give up on will grow like CRAZY.

Just have FUN!

Laurel

Thank you so much Laurelin. Yesterday I followed your advice. When I sowed my alyssum I used 30 or so seeds but when I sowed my 4'oclocks I only sowed 8-10 seeds. So this is not just based on seed size itself. It also depends on what type of plant and how much room it needs to grow. I just don't want to crowd them and then have them die! Now the question is how big? How big do they have to be before I plant them in the ground? And of course when? When should I Transplant them? Last year in April I transplanted some that I grew inside and about a week later it snowed 6 inches! I lost almost everything! This won't happen this year...even if I have to wait til June!

Hi Magicman,

Most of my transplants were fairly small (the tallest was Cosmos, at 6", but most were in the 2-3" range). They were WAY smaller than the commercially-grown plants I could get at a store, but they had GREAT root systems, and didn't even seem to notice being transplanted. I planted the ones more tolerant of cold out sooner (late April) and left the ones I wasn't sure of until later (early May). I didn't transplant any of mine into smaller cups to "grow on," but this year I will probably transplant some into small cups/pots to use at a plant exchange in June.

What's cold-tolerant? More or less anything listed as a hardy annual (the Thompson & Morgan Seed catalog is really great for giving information about hardiness, but you can make a good guess yourself if the plant naturally occurs someplace warm, like Central America, Australia,or South Africa, or someplace temperate, like the Northern U.S. or Northern Europe). If I'm not sure, I wait an extra week or two to plant out. For instance, I know zinnias, impatiens, and my favorite salvia ('Victoria') are heat lovers and tender, so they'll get planted out in mid-May (unless we have unusual warmth earlier in the month, when I might take the chance - keep in mind I'm a zone colder than you are). Things like alyssum, pansies and snapdragons are more cold-tolerant, and can go out much earlier. Still, you takes your chances, as the saying goes. Life (and unexpected snow storms!) happen. If something is really special or you're not sure, plant out half of them and leave half "in reserve" in their protected little containers for another week or two, just in case. They're not likely to die from overcrowding - I cooked or froze more than I overcrowded anything (when I either forgot to remove the top on an unexpectedly hot afternoon, or the lids blew off on a cold night) - I don't think anything croaked from crowding.

I'm not going to start winter sowing my tender annuals until the end of February or the first week of March, but you'll probably be able to start sooner, since you're in a warmer zone than I am.

I have to go - my youngest is clamoring for their fair share of computer time.

Laurelin

Laurelin Thanks again for your input! Now this brings me to another question. The containers I am using I feel are not big enough! I am using those containers you get when you buy chinese food....Tin bottom ..plastic top! I filled them with Miracle grow and seems to be about 2 and a half inches deep! Also you say let them grow to about 2 or 3 inches. But there is only about 1 and a half inches between the soil and top of the container. I do however have a portable greenhouse I bought. It has 3 shelves and a Plastic cover over it. Maybe after they sprout I could take the lid off and put them in there!!I also wanted to use Flats to put in this greenhouse. When would I do this! What I really don't understand about Winter Sowing is why if you can put seeds in containers to grow. Why doesn't direct sowing to the soil work so well. It seems more natural. I would think that sowing in containers would allow cold air to freeze it more and thus killing the seeds. Well I guess in time I will learn more. Thanks again...Wayne

Wayne,
I think direct sowing into the ground does work. My mother-in-law is the most master of all gardeners I know (she has her own greenhouse and often has plants for sale) Anyway she direct sows some seeds in the fall. I took her advice and sowed TONS of seed around the pool we put in in September. Only problem is about a million weeds popped up in the topsoil. So now (cry) we are going to have to rototill it all and lay down landscape fabric in th spring...bye bye seedlings....

Therefore I am wintersowing!!

Wayne,
I thought I would jump in here for a minute. What Lauren mentioned is one reason to wintersow the seeds. It mimics nature but at the same time it keeps the weeds from taking over and crowding out the tiny seedlings. It also protects the seeds and seedlings from voles and other critters that would eat them and from spring rains that could wash the seeds away. Basicly you are keeping the seeds safe but at the same time letting them germinate naturely in a controlled environment.

To be honest, I don't have as much luck with the aluminum pans as I do plastic containers. It may just be me. My theory was that the pans retained heat or cold too much. Now I stay with plastic containers. I don't buy much milk in gallon containers b/c it goes bad before we drink it all so now I buy it in the half gallons and I use those containers to sow a lot of my seeds. I also use the 3, 4 and 6 inch nursery pots that I collect that others are getting rid of.

Penny

Hmmm, I just bought some big tin lasagna pans with cover on sale at wally world. Hope they work okay. I also thought I would use the containers that strawberries come in at the store since they already have the holes in the top and bottom.

Ahhh I know where to go!!! Cisco's behind Tops plaza on Young Street in Tonawanda. They sell bulk and you can get 25-50 for a reasonable price. I am gonna go get the all plastic sandwich ones. I will let you all know how much they are!! As far as What Lauren mentioned. Thanks for repeating it Penny thats a great reason and I will live by it!...wayne

Ok heres what I got at Sysco's ....32oz styrofoam containers and clear lids. 50 lids came to 2.39 and 50 containers was 2.99. I could have gotten 32oz clear plastic countainer but they were like 7.99 for 50. Anyone use those white Styrofoam cups?? How do they work? These are just Big ones for like soup and such. Sysco's has so many containers for the food and resturant buisness! I hope this helps anyone who will wintersow this year and doesn't have containers!...Wayne

Great idea!

Here is my experience with different containers.
Gallon and 1/2 gallon jugs (milk, Juice, etc.) - Excellent
Foam deli cups & containers with lids - pretty good
deep clear plastic deli containers - excellent
clear plastic cups - excellent
sour cream, dip, yogurt, cool whip containers - excellent
clear deep clamshells (berries, grape tomatoes) excellent
alum. take out or roasting pans with clr. lid - so so
2 liter bottles - excellent
nursery pots - excellent
Clr shoe box type Sterlite containers w/ lid - excellent
Paper pots made from newspaper - excellent for plants that don't transplant well like morning glories or lupines.

As long as you have at least 3 inches of soil and you can keep the soil thoroughly moist but not soggy you should have good luck. I found that alum. tended to dry out on the bottom too much as it started to warm up and took longer for the seeds to germinate in spring because the pans stayed cooler.

Penny

All of you upstate New Yorkers have inspired me to try winter sowing. I did some today and set them out. My husband thinks I've gone nuts. I've started plants indoors before but I just don't have the room so I figure I have nothing to lose but the cost of the seeds. Wish me luck!!

I tried all sorts of containers last year, because I was SO excited to learn how to winter sow - I sowed in just about anything recyclable. The winners: gallon milk jugs and 2L soda bottles. The also rans: deep roasting pans with lids (one solid slab of soil), individual yogurt cups in deep roasting pans with clear lids. The definite losers: recycled nursery pots covered with plastic, baby wipes containers, smaller soda bottles (20 oz.). This year I'm using gallon milk jugs, 2L soda bottles, deep clear plastic coffee cups with lids (in a plastic basket, so they don't fall over), and a recycled clear round plastic cake container (I'd like to get some more of those!). People on this forum are SO inventive - take notes from whoever has a good idea!

When in doubt, put in another scoop of soil - better more soil than less. Ditto for seeds.

And, as for why winter sow in containers instead of direct-sowing: since I'm surrounded by rampaging psychotic squirrels with a chronic obsessive/compulsive digging disorder, covered containers are a MUST.

Laurelin