small seeds are usually ok in the mail but larger seeds will get crushed without bubble wrap. sometimes the smaller seeds will get crushed too. Tomatoes are kind of in the middle it's better to use bubble wrap.

If you order several, and they are mailed out together, they
yill be put in a bigger bag/envelope and will cussion each other anyway. Small seeds are not such that will break.
Have you tried to chew a pepper seed? they are tough. Tomatoes are equally tough.

How much does a bubble wrap envelope cost? I just received some seeds in a small bubble wrap package and the postage was $1.05. I suppose without the thicker bubble wrap package the postage would have been 44 cents. So why is it $4 extra, seems maybe a dollar or two extra would cover the extra cost of the more expensive envelope and higher postage.
But from Canada maybe $4 extra is reasonable, maybe someone has had packages shipped both ways and can remember how much postage was on the envelope.

Four dollars is not out of line; it is just that I was given a choice to avoid that charge. The envelope itself is a little more expensive I guess. Joplin post office charges me more ($1.17) than my local post office for the same envelope. Maybe the bubble envelope is somehow less convenient for them to handle?

To answer my own question, looks like in case quantities 4 inch by 8 inch bubble wrap envelopes are 10 cents each, and 5 inch by 10 inch are about 12 cents each. So the cost of the envelope is a very minor part of the shipping charge. There is higher postage for a thick envelope though, but I don't know postage rates from Canada.
http://www.packagingprice.com/forms/product_listing.cfm?CategoryID=10019&desc=Bubble+Mailers+Kraft+Self+Seal

I have ordered from Tatiana many times and have always paid for the bubble envie. I will not pay for that option again because I think the seeds will arrive fine without the bubble envie. I have received many larger (15-20 packs) small seeds orders that shipped for 44 cents with little to no problems. Of course, the sender needs to have minimal skills or the seeds can get crushed. Tatiana has the skills. The next time I order from her, I'll do the cheapest shipping.

This has nothing to do with Canadian rates, but USPS will chage more when they can even for US shipments. If you will tell your post office to use the "large envelope rate" the postage will be less than what they will charge if you don't. The bubble envelope has to be able to fit through their plastic template easily. If you are shipping a lot of seeds, then tape the packs to a piece of paper before putting into the envelope so they don't bunch up inside the envelope and get too thick to go through the template.

This also has nothing to do with Canadian rates or the tomato order: I told the clerk in Joplin MO on South Main Street my bubble envelope was a large envelope and she said it was a parcel. It happened more than once in the Joplin Post Office. My little town postal clerk showed me the cardboard stand with the slot. If it fits in the slot, it is only 87 or 88 cents. When there is a line and there always is in Joplin it is not worth it to me to argue. I myself hate to get in line behind someone with a problem order.

If I had to ship small seedes, I would put them in an envelope
made from toilett tissue(stapling) and put that inside a
3.5 x 6.5" envelope and pay regular rate.

Until two years ago sending small seeds such as tomato seeds was not a problem, and I've been sending seeds to many places including Canada, Mexico and many places over seas for many many years with no problem.

As an aside, I have always used a bubble mailer when sending more than about 12 packs of seeds to one place.

What's happened is that USPS has been installing new sorting rollers and seeds sent that weren't adequately cushioned were getting crushed, depending on which specific large USPS centers they went through.

Last Spring I did an experiment with the variety Orange Minsk by sending seeds to two folks, one in VA and one in W NYS.

Each person was sent two envelopes, one had the seeds in the normal coin envelopes I use, attached to folded over paper which I also use, but no padding, and the other envelope, the control, was sent with seeds and padded just with a folded over paper napkin.

Germination tests were done and the results were conclusive. Tomato seeds not sent with padding CAN BE crushed. Again, it depends on the exact route that your seeds go in terms of being sent through that new roller system.

Last Fall I bought a large roll of bubble wrap as well as those thin sheets of foam, but I've found that those are not necessary if one just uses a folded over paper napkin to cushion the seeds.

I can't tell you how much individual bubble mailers cost b'c I buy them via phone by the case from Staples, and all is delivered right to my front door. And while I could look up the case cost for the different sizes, and then calculate the per mailer cost, I don't wanna. LOL

Earlier this year I did my annual free seed offer, had 80 participants and packed up and sent out close to 400 coin envelopes with seed, all padded with just those folded over paper napkins; the bubble wrap and foam remain unused. To date no one has reported any crushed seeds.

If I send padded seeds in a large standard envelope I have to add 20 cents extra if the contents are more than 1/4 inch high. The same goes for too thick bubble mailers.

I send seeds for trial every year to several commercial places where I know the owners and trust them and how they run their companies and I always use bubble mailers for that purpose.

What I end up doing, bubble mailer, and I have several different sizes or standard small or large envelopes, depends on the number of packs sent as well as the number of seeds sent/pack.

Since I've been constrained by this walker I now have to use following a fall in Dec of 2004 I don't drive out in the winter or bad warm weather either, but since I have a Federal hadicapped permit my mail is delivered to my home. And when I'm baffled as to how much postage to use my mailperson will take my money, take it back to the PO after the run and mail it for me.

This year I've been using an obscene amount of postage, especially to those countries overseas, b'c I hate to ask her to always mail the larger stuff for me.

And yes, I know Tania very very well and have known her since she first started putting up her T-base data. She is absolutely meticulous in everything she does and is trustworthy as can be.

From Tania's website:

Seed packets
Seeds are packed in transparent plastic ziplock bags (2X3" and 3X4"), and a label with detailed variety description is included, often with a colored photograph.
Packaging and shipping options
standard envelope with custom padding to protect the seeds
less than 8 tomato seed packets: $2.00 for US and Canadian customers, $3 for international customers
8 or more packets: free for US and Canadian customers, $4 for international.
bubble mailer: $4 (US), $3 (Canada), $7 (international)
We recycle packaging materials, as we take any opportunity to protect our environment.

So as long as Tania clearly states that she custom pads seeds sent in regular envelopes I can't see the need to ask for a bubble mailer. And that cost involves the cost of the bubble mailer plus the normal shipping charge to wherever those seeds are going.

Just my opinion.

Carolyn, who was a bit amused with her recent seed offer b'c she clearly said that all seeds would be sent back in the SASE provided and seeds padded, since several folks sent their own padding stuff with the SESE, which I used. Summary; there are quite a few folks out there who are very concerned about crushed seeds. I ask for feedback info on germination, for several reasons, and have a thread set up for that, and that's so that folks can compare germination rates for specific varieties. And I do that b'c I know from experience that if I send out fresh 2009 seed that the germination rate can range from 0%, yes, I said 0%, to 100 %. And that has nada to do with padding, it has to do with how well folks do at germinating seeds and that includes the mix used, temps, moisture,whether or not those stupid domes are used and on and on with many variables. ( smile)

A lot of people make as much or more money off the postage on seed orders as the seed them self. $4.00 for a bubble wrap padded envelope is nothing but a ripoff. I have ordered from one seed company 20 pkg of seed 2 or 3 dollars postage. Then the next company 10pkg of seed 6 dollars postage. Then the package gets here and the postage was 1.07 and .88 cents. What's up with that? Nothing but a ripoff!!! Anyone that charges 4.00 extra for a padded envelope would not get my money! EVER!!!

Mrdoitall I have made up seed or plant orders on line many times and then not sent them when I found out the postage. Some places don't tell you what the postage will be until the very end of the order. I have received seeds in the mail from experienced tomato growers with just a bit of bubble wrap or soft paper in a regular envelope, so I wondered if the bubble envelope was necessary. Tatiana's gives you a choice so it was up to me whether I wanted to pay on not. If a place has a great choice of tomato seeds for $2 a package and she does, I consider that a good deal.

Mrdoitall,

It is not $4 'extra' for a bubble mailer option - it is the shipping and handling charge, total.

I offer Standard packaging for >8 packets of seed free of charge, as a token of appreciation for my customers that chose to support my seed preservation efforts and Tatiana's TOMATObase website.

I thought I'd clarify :)

Helen,

I provide adequate padding for a standard packaging option, and I hear folks commenting on excellent germination rates of my seeds - so bubble mailer is not really necessary (IMO), but several customers do choose bubble mailer for their peace of mind, and I understand. Thank you so much for ordering from me! :)

Tania

P.S. Bubble mailer minimum postage rate for shipping to US from Canada is $2.27 + GST. For 3+ oz packets it jumps to $4.73 + GST. This does not include the cost of bubble mailer itself, or handling costs.