I have the same problem. My loosely defined meaning of tropical is any plant that CAN'T survive outside of zone 10. To me it has nothing to do with looks.

That's why I always have to chuckle to myself when someone posts something about "looking for tropical plants that will survive frost". Excuse me, what the heck does that even mean? lol. But, I also get tired of people referring to some plants as "annuals", when they are really perennial by definition - the fact that you plant them improperly and kill them, doesn't make them an annual.

Why zone 10?.... Zone 10 is not tropical, most places in zone 10 has experance frost at one time....

So a coconut tree survived a frost as many have...so coconut palms are not tropical??

Take it as a compliment. I'd imagine that many of your visitors might look to Butchart Gardens as the model for a perfect garden in your area. While Butchart Gardens may grow some of the same exotics as you, as I recall (it's been 30 years since I was there) that is not their emphasis. Your visitors might have been in Hawaii or Jamaica the last time they saw so many Bamboo, Bananas, Palms, etc. You've obviously done your homework learning what will grow there. Be glad that you can educate them and, perhaps, motivate someone to be the first on their block to grow a hardy palm tree.

I have a different problem with plant selection. Apples, Peaches, Blueberries...I need low chill varieties. Tulips go in the fridge. Cherries...forget it. Unless they're Surinam Cherries, or Barbados Cherries. I haven't tried them yet though. They might be too "tropical".

The problem with the word EXOTIC is any plant could be an exotic...exotic mostly applies to any plant not native to an area...

An sugar maple would be an exotic in Miami or in England for that matter....

The word exotic literally means "foreign" not native to the region that they are grown as ornamentals.....even though most lay people apply it to anything unusual and for most people in northern areas these are tropical or subtropical plants...

When a plant is called tropical...its because its native to a tropical climate or lat... like with northern plants hardiness differs with the plant....some tropicals tolerate cold because they are use to stress in there native climate...dry seasons and drought..because a tropical plant tolerates some cold or frost does not make the plant not tropical...no more than the gardeners in tropical area who grow roses...roses are still an temperate plant...

Your bananas are tropical plants and even through they grow in your zone 8 garden they are still tropical plants...growing a plant is one thing...that why you won't see any banana plantations in zone 8....zone 8 is not tropical and bananas need a tropical climate or a subtropical climate to grow and fruit well...

Ultra-tropicals are in a class to themselves, you can call them true tropicals if you like...but these plant mostly come from warm wet tropical climates that don't have a prolong dry season.....they won't tolerate dryness or cold.. and most won't grow in zone 10.....to cold...there is no zone 10 climate that can grow the ultra tropicals...because they don't tolerate temperatures below 50F for long...and most places in zone 10 does drop into the 40's and even 30's every year....

I agree with Chris32599. The term tropical refers to the origin of a plant rather than its horticultural potential. The term "ultra tropical" is a purely horticultural term. I grew a lot of plants from the tropics when I lived in Miami. By the way, I consider zone 10 to be subtropical - not tropical. Interesting to hear 50 degrees is the point to separate "ultra tropicals" in Arizona. To me, 40 F was the milestone temperature in Miami at which I started losing tender things. Below 40, I lost my most cold sensitive plants. Of course, things like wind, frost exposure and duration of cold are as important as absolute lows. As a further note, I was intrigued by the fact that two plants I collected from the same area near the equator could have significantly different responses to cold. One might tolerate a frost or mild freeze where the other would fit better into the "ultra tropical" category.

Then you have Sacramento's 10a.... not really even subtropical... definately a mediterranean climate. Dry in the summer, cool and damp in the winter.

well you guys, if you live in a zone less than the "real tropics" (zone 11 plus) then a banana plant is, well, TROPICAL. And if you are able to grow it, well, GREAT.
I grow many "tropical plants" (heliconia, bananas, etlingera, etc) in zone 8B...in a temperature controlled greenhouse. And I grow many more out in my yard as "die back perennials". That does not make them any less "tropical". That just makes them more able to withstand the rigors of a "less then tropical climate". In reality, my USDA zone has only about 7-10 days out of 365 which keeps it from being suitable for growing "tropical plants" in general. I laugh when people from Miami say they are "worried about their plants" when it gets to be 40F. Hah Hah. They're a LOT HARDIER than you THINK.

Yes, robynlacy you are right...zone 10 in Florida is different than zone 10 in California...California cool nights stress may tropical plants more than then the occasionally drop to freezing you get in Florida...in fact I grow some tropicals in my zone 9b that won't grow in California's zone 10....because my climate has alot more heat and warmer nights from April to Oct..than most of California...

serenoa, you are right, I had 4 young plants from the Amazon rainforest....Amazon mahogany..Swietenia macrophylla, a palm that grows along the banks of the Amazon, Attalea spectabilis, the Brazil nut tree and the cannonball tree...all from the same area...and who would not say the Amazon rainforest is not tropical??

Well in my zone 9b garden, which is not tropical at all..the mahogany tree grew like a weed from the start..tolerating temperatures in to the mid 20's with only leaf burn.....the palm had trouble the frist few years....but now it is sending leaves up to 6 feet long and now to tolerates temperatures in the mid 20's but with leaf burn...the Brazil nut tree started stressing with any thing below 45F and died at about 35F if it was more than a few nights.....the cannonball tree started stressing at about 35 to 40F and died at 32F.....and all these plants came from the same climate area...

Heliconia--you make a decent argument, but I too, can laugh that you are so comfortable to have a greenhouse in which you have ultimate protection (and thus, even if it does get too cool or dry, etc) you can manipulate the environment.

Yes, many tropicals are root hardy'lose only leaves in a frost (and yes, there are many tropicals that DO start to falter once we get 40s after a few nights).

Such as in zone 9, where you really have to flirt with low 30s practically every Dec and Jan, it's no laughing matter when something that doesn't like cold DOES get nipped by cold temps. Yeah, it'll survive, but NO ONE wants his garden to look like #&$^ from now until mid March when new growth comes out.

Here in zone 10, yeah, you still keep an eye on things, especially rarer or favorite things--just as I'm sure you would. But, just as in after a hurricane, NO ONE would ever wish the garden to sustain damage from a cold temps, lose anything, blah blah. I sure don't want to see (as I did in 2003 and 2001 seasons in WInter Park) twigs and bare spots until Easter!

Tell us more about your experiences, Heliconia. Which plants are hardier than people in Miami think? I live in zone 8b now and could benefit from your knowledge.

Bananas of almost all types (not just Basjoo and Musella lasioscarpa) can be left in the ground all winter with no protection. While the leaves will almost always burn off in the freezes, the trunks almost never die and in Spring, they start to leaf back out pretty much like nothing ever happened. I grow Ensete maurelii, Sikkimensis, Dwarf Red, Zebrina, Velutina, laterita, some of the different ornata, lasioscarpa, Raja Puri, Cavendish, and several others.

Brugmansia grow like weeds here. If you plant a cutting in mid to late March, you will have a nice sized tree by the end of November. Usually the brugmansia freeze to the ground every winter, but always return, and they get bigger each season. I have some trees that are over 10 years old with huge root masses, which literally go from nothing to 12-15 ft with a spread of 8-10 ft in one season.

Tropical ferns like Birdnest ferns, and Birdnest type anthuriums....planted in a protected location under a tree canopy these will be okay. In a severe night of cold, just throw a frost blanket over them. I also have some andreanums out that I will cover if needed.

Ti leaves...I have never had my Ti fail to return, even from temps as low as 20F. Yes they do get nipped, but they have pretty amazing recuperative powers.

Gingers. Hedychiums, Costus, Curcumas, Kaempherias, Globbas, Alpinias... all do very well here. The only specific ones that I have had NOT do well are ALpinia amazonicus Variegata (the green form of this ginger is extremely hardy here) and Costus osae Red Rose. Of course, the purpuratas will not do here unless very well protected. I grow them, along with Torch Gingers and oddballs like Costus stenophyllus, in the greenhouse. All the others grow extremely rampantly outdoors and bloom heavily. They freeze to the ground almost every year but start reappearing by the middle-end of March and are blooming again in May. Costus curvibrateatus blooms yearly, as does Costus spicatus. Costus barbatus will produce an absolutely huge plant in one season but will not bloom if allowed to freeze. That's okay, I have blooming ones in the greenhouse...the foliage from the ones outdoors is worth it without the blooms. Hedychiums in particular are great here, I have some areas of natural bog on my property and have Pink V, Elizabeth, Daniel Weeks and Coronarium growing actually in water as pond/bog plants in full sun. It keeps them well watered in the summer and they get over 8 ft tall, far surpassing their terrestrial counterparts.

Egyptian papyrus and Tropical water lilies. The papyrus, which is the huge 10 ft tall weeping type, is supposed to be tender outside zones 9-10 but it grows like a weed here. In fact its invasive. If we get below about 26-27 some of the stalks will freeze to the ground but as soon as it warms back up it starts putting out replacements. Tropical water lilies sometimes go dormant in winter, sometimes keep blooming right through. I have had one that has even bloomed with a skim of ice on the pond.

Bromeliads. I have Neoregelias, Nidulariums, Aechmeas, Vreiseas and some other genera in the ground. In a frost I just throw a blanket over them to keep the frost from ruining their leaves. In a hard freeze, I may cover them with a double layer of frost cloth. Usually they come through completely undamaged. If they do get leaf damage, it grows out in the warm season and they bloom and pup normally. Variegated pineapple (ananas) is very hardy here. I have 4 plants of varying ages that I never even bother to cover. One is over 6 years old and between 3-4 ft tall with a 3 ft spread. I have a thicket of Bromelia balianse that started with 2 small plants and is now about 7 x 5 ft containing perhaps 15+ plants. The literature will tell you that this plant is hardy only to maybe 30-32F but it has survived for years in my yard without protection to 20F with absolutely no damage.

Bixa tree. Supposed to be tropical. I have one that I transplanted out of the greenhouse that is about 10 ft tall.

Heliconia Pedro Ortiz, Heliconia rostrata. For years, Rostrata has always survived to about 28 degrees for me with only a little leaf damage. Any colder, I protect it. Pedro, I put out this summer and so far, even through 4 frosts it has been undamaged.

Monstera deliciosa. I have a huge plant in a 35 gallon pot that I kept for years as a houseplant, then it just got too big. I started leaving it out this year, and it has gone through temps to 28 degrees with only a little minor leaf burn. I didn't cover it, its too big.

White bird of paradise and Ravenella (Traveller's Palm). The white birds will get freeze damage at temps of less than about 28, but I have never had one actually die of cold, even in 20F. They start new growth immediately in spring. There is a house that has a Ravenella (not mine, but I am going to try one now that I see their success). This plant is about 10 feet tall and has been planted out for several years. It looks great.

Nun's Cap orchids. Supposed to be tender. I have 3 stands planted in the ground that have been there for 3 years now. I only cover them when it gets below 28. They get bigger and better every year and bloom profusely.

Elephant ears. All types. I grow a lot of Alocasias, colocasias and Xanthosomas. Types I have in the yard that routinely freeze to the ground and come back every spring are:
Alocasia macrorhizza albo variegata
Alocasia macrorhizza New Guinea Gold
ALocasia plumbea Metallica (aka Nigra)
ALocasia portodora
ALocasia odora
Alocasia sinuata
Alocasia macrorhizza Black Stem
Alocasia Polly
These are't small specimens. They have been in the ground for years and have large trunks (except Polly, who I admit never reached potential, but does always faithfully reappear).

Others that do very well are all the colocasias...Black Magic, Illustris, Black Marble, Chicago Harlequin, Dwarf Jenningsii, Fallax, Yellow Splash, Milky Way/Elepaio...

Xanthosoma "Mickey Mouse" will take over here if you let it, Lime ZInger gets huge trunks over the years and gets about 7 or so ft tall, sagitifolia is a weed that can get 8-9 ft.

Thunbergia myesorensis and Thunbergia coccinea. These have escaped from the greenhouse, sending vines out under the wall that have come up outside. I trellised them to see what would happen, and they do winter just fine here.

Variegated Tapioca. I was told it wouldn;t grow here because its the "tropical" not the "hardy" type. Surprise, I had one at my old house that grew to be about 9-10 ft tall its first season, froze to the ground, and came back up in Spring and has come back up for the last 3 years (I drive by every summer to check on it) I got another plant this year that I am going to plant out here.

I am sure there is other stuff I haven't thought of, but I have to go do something other than type on the computer for a while.

All of these plants are, by definition, "Tropical". They come from Tropical America (New World tropics) or Tropical Asia (Old World Tropics). Some do not reach their full potential growing in an area which is not frost free, but they do well enough to suit my purpose just fine. And, actually, I PREFER that they all take a break in the winter. Its less work for me and I can concentrate on other chores than maintaining a 5 acre spread.

The botanical garden in Miami where I worked grew thousands of species. Your list hardly justifies your derision of Miami gardeners. I am intrigued by the notion of growing Heliconia rostrata and Pedro Ortiz outdoors. Do they flower for you or are you just growing them for foliage? Bird's nest fern is news to me, birdsnest anthurium isn't. I haven't tried Thunbergia coccinea. I've left monsteras out with varying success. I wouldn't call them reliably hardy. Local friends have tried bixa and lost them with temperatures in the mid-20's. I've seen variation in bixa growing wild from Mexico to Bolivia. Maybe there are some hardier strains. Otherwise, I don't see much new information. Besides things on your list, I have grown five bauhinia species, three Tabebuia species, four Ficus species, several begonias, several cycads, two species of Piper and more in northern Jacksonville without without winter covers or frost blankets. A good friend in Jacksonville is growing ninety species of palms outdoors - some of them for just a short time. Keep up your trials. We might have enough in common to be friends if you can the hah hah's.

That's okay, serenoa...I think you are a kind of a smart aleck with some sort of chip on your shoulder and I have enough friends that don't require me to can my hah hah's, so I suppose I don't need you as a friend too.
My list wasn't supposed to be an epic gardening journal of rare and unusual species being grown in Gainesville, just a small list to point out that yes, plants people consider "tropical" can be grown out of their "tropical" climates and exhibit more hardiness than you might think. And by the way, I don't deride Miami gardeners, I have many gardening friends in the Miami-Ft Lauderdale area who I respect greatly. It just cracks me up when they get all bent out of shape about a cold spell that drops them to 45F for a night.

Hmmm, perhaps these Miami-Ft. Laud "Friends" would have best insight for other of us zone 10ers to reveal if their respect is mutual or another term would be used for your need to "Ha Ha" to whomever and whenever you please. They must be a dime a dozen.

Heliconia, I wish you could have articulated your amusement initially less condescendingly. Point taken, although with an imprint of the back of your hand on the cheek.

Frosts DID occur inland across Palm Beach county. "Ha ha?", perhaps those nurseries out there over-reacted. Nothing like going out and looking for materials only to see scorched leaves on crops or crops withheld for 6-8 weeks while they recouperate.

So you got a little frost? Maybe that's a good thing (hah hah). Now you can join the rest of Florida in the certain knowledge that, while you are very lucky in South Florida most of the year with your weather, you are not in reality really "Tropical" either...not even as far as Key West. You are still technically "sub tropical", and like all the rest of us on the peninsula, you get burned once in a while, albeit not as often as we do more northerly. But, the crispy plants you refer to will survive, all is not lost, I guess that's my point, your "tropical" plants will survive. Poor babies will just look like he** for a bit. (hah hah). And, a few of my South FL friends do own nurseries down there, but most are just ordinary home gardeners. Several have landscaped their lovely Miami yards with plant material from my very own greenhouse. I count myself lucky to have them as friends.

Condescending? No, I don't think so...Realistic? Yeah, mebbe.
Definitely no regrets, no remorse, and completely unrepentant, though.

Lookie dat! Zone denial within the state of Florida!

I have several true tropical plants, including a Delonix regia grown from seed. I also have other tropical plants such as a variety of species orchids from central and South America, Heliconias from Panama and others. All grown without a greenhouse and of course sheltered in my home from early Autumn to mid-spring.

Tropical here is a state of mind. A state of denial as well. LOL! The things I can grow outside in northern most Ohio appear very tropical and exotic to those around us. Perhaps in the technical scheme of things it is an incorrect perception but it works for me.

{{gwi:165358}}

Chickadeedeedee (no matter what the village people say is my identity. ) :-)

Hey Chickee is that one of the brugs I sent you last Spring? LOOKIN GOOD!!!!!!!!!

Hi Biconia :-)

Yep. That's them. I couldn't believe that they grew so rapidly here and bloomed within 4-5 months of planting your lovely rooted cuttings. I read in the Brugs. forum some people have trouble getting their plants to bloom for years!

Hmmmmm. I guess the secret in non tropical Ohio is to not tell the plants exactly where they are, zone-wise. :-)

C3D

Looks good Mikey! Sounds like there are some disagreements concerning tropicals + freeze. My experience tells me to trust the Mighty Tat. (heh heh)

Hi Dr. GonZ.

I am the first to admit I don't know too much about the world of tropical planty things but I know that true tropical plants and cold temperatures do not mix well.

I do know snow and ice though. :-)

Chick-a-Mikey-DD....awww forget it. C3D

The Mighty Tat has some tattin to get done on the 23rd. Maybe I'll get "hah hah" tattooed on my.....I tattied it up, if I go 2 hours this time that will make a total of about 30 hours of tattoo work over my lifetime

I love your pix Chick-a-Mikey-DD. I have that anthurium....or one exactly like it....mine is Miami Red

Hey that reminds me, since it's so cold here in the Arctic North (after all it was only 78 degrees for the high...brrrr....) I thought I'd cheer you guys up with this photo back from late July. Of course, I CHEATED and grew these blooms in a (gasp!) GREENHOUSE, not out in my YARD but oh well. That doesn't make them any less enjoyable filling the vases inside the house.
{{gwi:774788}}

WHOA! Picture perfect Bihai!

Screamin' bones! That is absolutely NOT playing fair Bihai!

Screamin' bones! Those are lovely, cheating or not!

3D Chick

You guys are very nice with your kind words, even though I am the lowest of the cheating tropical lowlives (sob).
--searching for 13 levels of Atonement, Metamorphosis, and Absolution

Heliconia, I don't understand the need to be so "lecturing" and again, smittin' in your initial post after my thoughts. Finally, you make your point succinctly without the typical undertoned smugness: "our tropicals will come back." Whew, it's like being given a mute button.

I never said south Florida was in a "tropical" area. Thanks for again epistlizing again your thoughts on tropical plant hardiness. What works for you is great, it serves your needs. If we realize we're not in a tropical area, why can't we, too, then, have concerns when temps dip into the "hardly-to-fret" upper 30s? Tell that to a Medinilla and red sealing wax palm.

Add "and a dick" to your smug list of "no condescending (in your tone), unremorsed, unrepentant, and unregretful."

If you can have a right to express thoughts, I can, too.

Cheers to the-brown-landscape-until-Easter. If only we all could have such a standard. ha-ha

Well Bihai, us cheaters we got to stick together. haha

Sorry, can't add "and a dick" in there, don't have one (BIG BIG HA HA) (whew am I grateful for that!) However I can see it does apply to you. Very self descriptive there, it must be a gift you have. Hey, where've you been? Our landscape up here in the Arctic isn't brown at all! Far from it! Everythings still rocking and rolling up here. Nice and green, stuff blooming all over the place. We haven't been smitten so am still looking at a nice green, not brown, landscape, yessiree. And you misread me, I am not "smug". Truth is, I really don't care about the difference between the temperatures in No and So FL, or if we freeze and you don't, or if I get to grow in a greenhouse and not in the yard. I really don't care if you can grow a Sealing Wax palm outside. I have 2 in the greenhouse and they are very happy. And I am not overly fond of Medillina. I would like to have an Amherstia nobilis, but just don't have space...sigh...so many plants, so little time. The most fun part about this thread for me has been seeing the hair trigger defensive attitude you all have down there. The entertainment value here is, well, seemingly unlimited. You're like the little lap dog, blow on its ear and it snaps. Then you get to laff and jump back and do it again. And see, those "ha ha's" are contagious, aren't they? Just can't stop yourself can ya? (Who's really trying to act smug, here, you gotta ask that about now. Imitation is, well, you know...)

Yeah, eggo, I lived in So Cal for an extended period of time. I actually liked it. Weather is generally great there on the West Coast. Lottsa great tattoo shops too. Ohhh and the RESTAURANTS! Ethnic food heaven! Everything you need for fun and games. I happily welcome you to the rogues gallery. We have all the real fun in here, without all the angst.

Besides, you SO FL guys are moving up here to my neck of the woods in DROVES! All the homes going up around this area....anything from $300,000-900,000.....the largest percentage are being snatched up by people from South FL who "just can't take it any more" down yonder....too much crime, too much traffic, too crowded....willing to mortgage themselves into oblivion to GET AWAY from SO FL...THANKS! You all are fueling our local economy something fierce and ensuring we have lots of moola to spend on our landscaping! Keep it coming, I have 5 acres to do up!

Whew!, gettin' warm in here.

Bihai,

You wrote: "... I am the lowest of the cheating tropical lowlives (sob)..."

Sorry dearie. I believe that title is held by someone else from somewhere else. :-)

GonZ, I'm going out for popcorn. You want butter on yours?

bad bad C13D

Oh yeah...how could I forget about him? Silly me. (GAG)
---13 full moons on Friday the 13th