Medo - i'll try to help you the best that I can. The best solution would be to place bat insulation in between the floor joists, but this is labor intensive, and can be costly - depending on the size of the house.
Do you know what the square footage is? If you only wanted to do a couple of rooms, it wouldn't be too bad though....

At what temperature outside does it become uncomfortable inside? The reason that I ask, is that there's some small things that can be done to help, but I need more info.....

EG

I second the insulation under the floor.
How are your windows? In our house in Montana, I used the "shrink wrap" type window insulating film. I could feel a HUGE difference in my living room when I covered the picture window. That house had plaster walls, which I swear made it feel so cold in there. Every fall I covered the picture window, the 2 upstairs bedrooms and the bathroom windows. It also helped to keep the condensation from molding the windows (we didn't have a vent fan in the bath, and no way I was opening the window in the cold!) When it would get super cold at night, I also closed the heavy curtains on the windows that had them, and closed the blinds on the others, to try and keep the cold out of the room. That was also the house that taught me to wear slippers :-)

I realize I'm talking about windows, and you asked about the floor, but my theory is, the less cold air you have coming in from other places, the less there is to sink to your floor and add to the problem.

Depending on how your basement/crawl space is set up, you might also check to see if the space above the concrete wall and under the floor joists has insulation in it. Do be careful though, if your furnace is down there, and it's gas, you may need to leave the crawlspace ventilation open. The furnace (or gas water heater) does require a source of fresh air.

Are you getting the sub-zero temps there? It was -7 Monday morning here. The rest of the week is supposed to be ok, then the cold comes back Saturday I think.

when its windy and the teens, the windows are covered in plastic, and the furnace is in the attic, lets see, the basement has dirt, not concrete. and we have electric, i'm so afraid of gas leaks!! i can smell a gas leak like you would not believe!! they said it was because i was preg. but even after i had talla, i still could smell them leaks. even a slight one. LOL i'm really worried about the living room and the bedroom for now. which both are both 11x16. i'd prefer to keep it cheap, cuz realistically i'll be doing the work and hubs will not want to help. **sigh** ~Medo

Medo - are your floor joists on 16" or 24" centers? Hopefully 16", but the store you get your pricing from will need to know this..........

For each room, you will need around 176 square feet of insulation.

Call your local big box store, and tell them you need a price on enough R-25 roll insulation to do 176 sqft. That will be your cost per 11x16 room, plus the cost of a good staple gun and staples - if you don't already have these.

Let me know if you need any more help.

EG

As a thought, could she put down old used carpet in the crawl space as a stalling tactic? If I were her, I'd want to wait on the expense until after Christmas, lol.
Snow here too!! Waaah! "California girl whines about small amount of snow. News at 10."

how do i find out if its 16 or 24?
its wide open down there, so it'd definately have to be from up top that i do the work. because the crawl space is about 2-2 1/2' tall and we have 850sf total. so you minus the 8x8 for the bathroom. and thats what the crawl space is. all dirt. so its not separated like the rooms are. but that's a awesome idea!! LOL
i wish i could talk so much and blow all this cold air back up north!! **huge belly laugh**

ok, are you ready for a laugh??
a guy, broke into a house, and then went back home, the people called the cops, the cops found him in NO time flat AND solved some other break in crimes. LOL wonder how??
all they had to do was follow his snowfoot prints!! LOL
Gotta love the snow!! **huge smile** ~Medo

Carolyn - are you asking if she can fasten some carpet to the bottom side of the floor joists? Or just lay some out over the top side of the flooring? Anything that will provide a thermal barrier between the floor and the cold air under the house would help.

Medo - You will need to measure from the center of a floor joist to the one beside it. It will either measure 16" or 24". Most likely, it is 16". So, you will have to work it from up top? That's not good....I wish I could see it..

Another possible quick fix......
If you have a photo of the outside of your house, that clearly shows where the house meets the ground - would you email it to me? I wanna see if you have vents in your foundation wall, that we could cover on extremely cold nights. That would help some......But, they will have to be uncovered before spring, or lots of moisture - and possible mold will form under there....

EG

there isn't any that i know of, but i'll take some pics, probably this weekend, i have to watch lucy all day tomarow, and then we'll be back from topeka. its dark already. today i've been down with this headache i can't get rid of, i think/know its cuz of all the things in the house that have gone "wrong" and now need to be fixing, tabor flipped out, and shoved the washer over some, andnow it doesn't work right, i guess its a sensor, so i'll have to get that, so i'm taking all of my laundry over to moms to get done while i'm watching lucy, and the pipes froze. now i know why everyone puts those straw bales around their houses. well, the poorer of us who do that, but we don't because hubs smokes and i am so afraid that he is or something will happen and it will go up in flames!! ~Medo

Here is a link that might be useful: Barehanded Totally Nutso Gardener!! **Big Grinn**

Medo - Sorry you are cold but I don't think insulation is the answer. In fact, I had a similar situation and it had been insulated. We removed it all at the advice of two inspectors. It is the perfect place for moisture to collect and insects to live in our climate. As you said before, heat rises and cold settles downward, so it accomplishes little to have insulation under your floor. What you need to have is a totally closed air space. That provides the insulation quality. Make sure that all of your foundation vents are closed and attempt to close off any openings. Your cold floors are a result of cold air under your house and this will not be a problem if the air is not moving under the house. In fact, isn't trapping air in an enclosed space what insulation is all about. Just my 2 cents.

Ok, this is an off-topic thread, so I'll come out and post what's on my mind.

Is the winter gardening conversation so slow that people find it necessary to bring back several year old threads to rehash?

I mean really, don't you think that someone that asked a question in 2005 either got their answer or moved on from there? I mean really! I especially like it when they had it set up to receive notificaiton that their post was answered. I wonder if their email is even still valid, hehe.

Anyway, just had to throw that out. It's happened twice now. Silly.

i know sinfonian!! geeze! but everyone here is just so nice that i thought i'd ask here **sniff sniff**
but it is a valid point!! sometimes i look up something when i'm searching for something and i can't find it, it'll come up OOPS!! page not found or something like that. but clearly that page is there. tht is annoying!! especially if i know i'm the one who put it there!! **giggle** so it can't be that old!! LOL

Here is a link that might be useful: Barehanded Totally Nutso Gardener!! **Big Grinn**

ok, this is what i found!!
ya know where the satellite cable thingi's come in? well, the one we have has like 2 cables stuck together,well the people who put it there drilled a hole the size of a quarter, the cable is the size of a nickle maybe. so that's where all the air is coming in from. and i never noticed it befor because my house is sooooo small that all my walls are always covered! 2 couches, the desk, the buffet/tv/entertainment center/thingi!! LOL so i have no room for anything, ohhh and the printer area!! LOL so ya have to be careful of them!! LOL so now its covered in duct tape!! that's my answer to everything, that and the glue gun!! LOL
at least till i get the caulking i need. :')
now i just need to find what else!! and grandma! you have a point, we did close off that attic thingi in the ceiling, so no air is escaping, but that shouldn't affect this year!! (because we fixed that last year) and lord knows, its sure hot when ya stand up!! Hee Hee!! alot of air comes in from where the floor boards meet the wall, its like they left a 2-3" gap. are they supposed to do that?? it has that one kinda boarding over it to make it look nice but nothing to make it stop the air flow. ugh!! i did the get down on your hands and knees and felt all along the floor and the wall and such to find where the air was coming in at!! LOL i do the same thing only sniffing to find that horrid smell when a mouse dies in the walls and we can't pin point the smell.!! i can't stand it when i can't find something. we couldn't find a smell in the kitchen, ohhhhh, talk about tearing the kitchen apart til we found it, it was inside the stove, a mouse had crawled up inside there and died. that was just gross. so i had to tear that apart so i could get it all cleaned out, surprisingly it still worked!! LOL **big smile!!** ~Medo

Here is a link that might be useful: Barehanded Totally Nutso Gardener!! **Big Grinn**

ROFL, medo, he wasn't talking about you. He's talking about the square foot of peas question. I thought the same thing Sinf, lol. I was like, what the...? I'm sure it's just a fairly new person who did a search on something else and didn't notice the date. I DO think that it shows us that it would be smart to post on what an average family can eat in the way of peas. I see that kind of question over and over again. How much...do I need to plant this year? I'm thinking after we all have a few years under our belts we can answer that one a bit better. I'd really like to post a graph of some sort in FAQ's because "how much should I plant" seems a perfectly reasonable question to me.

ohhh yes!! me too!! LOL silly me!! LOL i think i'd put all that faq's in my blog on a separate page just for sfg. i think that we should have that in there so anyone could look onto anyone of my/our pages/links and see. since it seems to be such a big question. hey, then i could go back and look it up in MY own page LOL **big grinn** i know, i'm really terrible at this thing, LOL
i was so worried about not waking up in time and getting up to topeka in time to watch lucy (my niece) so i didnt sleep a wink last night, come to think of it, i never do when we watch here early in the morning, he say's, "well hon, i don't want to stay the night at your mom's cuz i can't sleep" heck, i can't get any sleep!! i'm the one who will be twiching all over the place and watching the little one!! LOL MEN!!! so he sleeps all night and we get here and he sleeps again! so i'm so tempted to slap him! no, really this time!! **onery laugh** LOL
i just love babies!! they are so warm and comfy!! they make you all calm and nice feeling!! know why?? cuz ya know you can give them right back!! LOL ~Medo

Here is a link that might be useful: Barehanded Totally Nutso Gardener!! **Big Grinn**

LOL, I'm having baby withdrawal too medo. Although, I sat for a friend a few weeks ago and was reminded that babies are HARD. Chase, chase, chase, hold, hold, hold, cuddle, cuddle, cuddle, clean, clean, clean. Blech!
On an unrelated note, my oldest built a snowman today. My youngest built a snow "minion". Should I be worried? He's the one I'm always catching disassembling electronics around here. He built a lego monkey robot a year ago. Next step are programmable robots...at 5 yo. My hubby said to tell him we aren't springing for "evil" robotics college. lol

A co-worker has a 4 month old and it got me longing for another myself. Our youngest is 2. Of course we're done, but they are so cute and cuddly! But you're right, they are a ton of work.

i know how that is!! i'm so thankful that i can babysit her!! because i tell ya, it kinda lets me have my cure of wanting to have my own, she's great, don't get me wrong, but i'm glad i'm "fixed" because i'd want another one!! LOL
then we'd have another little hellion running around here stomping on my last nerve!! **big grinn** but i tell ya, babysitting them and handing them back is somthing else!! LOL i just love cuddling with them!! and the smell!! ahhh and the cute little clothes!! and the smiles and the feeding them! ahhhhhh ok but she's a collicky little one, poor thing, so when she gets that way i have to hold her tummy down with my arm under her and she's kinda at an angle, i feel bad for her, her momma gives her them gas drops and gripe water but i just don't think a baby should have all them things in their body. but she also watches what she eats and what she feeds her. and birps her when she's supposed to, most of the time. when i watch her we birp her every two oz and even though she cries i still do that and she'll birp but she has no problems. God forbid if i forget to give her them drops!!
but i still want one!! **giggle** ~medo

Here is a link that might be useful: Barehanded Totally Nutso Gardener!! **Big Grinn**

Baby stuff again...oh god....It makes me want to build a trebuchet large enough to launch myself. EG feel...sick now. Blech!

EG

at least we're not talking about the labor, and where they came from, and all that!! LOL
hey! is it alright if i send you some "photo's" Hee Hee!! **onery grinn**
i have a project that tabor and i are gonna work on and its gonna really tick the hubs off, BUT if all goes right we'll have a shower, and i'll have room for my washer and dryer in the bathroom :') LOL soooooo i'm needing some input and i need some help on what all i'll need!! LOL i'll let ya know what i do have that way i'll know what i need to get! :') ~Medo

Here is a link that might be useful: Barehanded Totally Nutso Gardener!! **Big Grinn**

BUILD a Trebuchet EG! BUILD IT NOW! I gotta see this...

Medo - sure, send me the pics. Oh! I built something today, myself....Heh.

Sinfonian - i'll build one sometime during the first 3 months of 2009, I reckon. It'll be small, though. Mine (the bigger one) will come later. Hee Hee.

EG

{{gwi:1289892}}

this is the source of my freezing cold breeze under my house! it goes strait into my basement, when the wind blew and i was down there, it blew strait into my face! WOW that was freezing cold!! so i looked into that direction, and saw daylight, i knew that all around my foundation there was not any cracks to make that big of a difference, so i looked under the porch, well the dummies who put the last part of the house on didn't cover that hole thingi that is 8 ft long!! so i have some ply wood that we'll put up there. then i think i'll use that foam like stuff to put all around the edges to make sure to seal the deal!! that should make us much warmer!! LOL also i wanted hubs to check out the ventilation in the attick, they had to come out 2 times to cut it, so i know that more than likely it isn't cut right. there isn't alot of air coming out of there. i don't feel very christian when i'm cold!! i can think of alot of names to call them people!! **sigh** i knew i'd find it sooner or later!! now its just the washer i need to get taken care of and then i'll be doing great!! dang things!! **giggle** ~Medo

Here is a link that might be useful: Barehanded Totally Nutso Gardener!! **Big Grinn**

Medo, I havenÂt responded to your post cauz I am not familiar with the KS climate or your construction details. I could lead you down the wrong path. Good luck with your project though.

John

Here is a link that might be useful: Johns Journal

medo, I am between projects right now and I cannot get your problem out of my mind. In your photo, is what I think is an opening on the opposite wall. Do all four walls have that opening? If they do, how about standing back and taking a photo of the opening also a flash photo of the inside of each openings. Also, take a photo of all four walls inside your basement where the walls meet the floor joists.

John

Here is a link that might be useful: Johns Journal

John, Medo sent me a link to her photobucket account once. In the pictures of her house, the siding doesn't go all the way to the ground. So she's got cold air getting into the crawlspace and then into the basement under the bathroom. Seems to me, she needs to bring the walls all the way down with some kind of underpinning. I'm tempted to say that even plastic sheeting stapled to the walls of the house and held down by bricks or even pots with dirt in them would help during the winter. It would be temporary, but it should stop the cold air, like closing the vents on a foundation.

Medo, you think you could do that? 10' plastic sheeting will run you about $50 for 100 feet. Seeing how short the space is between the ground and the house, you might be able to cut that into 3 sections 3+ feet wide, at least 2 sections 5' wide. Roll it out and give Tabor a pair of scissors. :)

It'll save a lot on your power bill if you can keep that cold air out. We had this conversation this fall. I finally got the wood stove installed last month and haven't needed it until tonight. I've used it a few times, but it hasn't been "needed". That warm air rising from the basement has made a huge difference in how much the heat runs.

And stuff any holes like the cable wire, I'd use toilet paper, paper towels, whatever you have.

Medo, looking at the pictures of your back flower bed, is that where the air is coming in? Next to the new porch?

Dang, and I thought my ice cold concrete slab was the devil in the winter. What you've got is worse! I'm sure EG will be able to determine from your pic that it is 16 on center and what you should say in the insulation department at Lowes/HD. I could wing it but he's the expert (John isn't too bad either after seeing his arm thingy). I've done the work but am as iliterate as a toddler when it comes to talking construction. Then again, I blew in insulation into my attic, cheaper and faster.

Really wish I could help. Thought I must say that it is very doable to do the batting insulation, just hard work (something I've never shied away from). Good luck and think warm thoughts!

ok, i'll get a pic when we get back to the house, from the outide and show ya what i've got going on!!
Tom no that's not from my flower bed. its from under my back porch, apparently when they built that back part of the house on, they didn't close it in, at first i was against using the straw bales for insulation, but then WALLA!! Hello!! how about for my compost and my gardening!! hubs nicely reminded me of that!! WOW isn't he just great!! Hee Hee
he just don't want me messing up his precious boards!! (that the snow is messing up!!) wait till i mess up that bathroom!! WHOA BABY!! now tell me something you did see the floor, now am i gonna have to replace that? i'll post so the rest of ya can see.
{{gwi:1289893}}
at the top of the pic is the water damage, am i gonna have to replace that? because if i am, well man that would have to wait, i can't do that with christmas money!! LOL but i do want that shower in!! Hee Hee!! and i do love your blog Tom!! i'll link it here so everyone else can see! ~Medo

Here is a link that might be useful: Seventh Street Cottage

Medo - the first thing you need to do, is repair the water leak. Do you know where that water is coming from? Get that fixed, then maybe it will dry up. The floor will have to be replaced soon, but I think you can get by with it until warm weather gets here. Just nail some pieces of 2x4 between the floor joists, tightly against the bottom of the flooring. This will get you by until you can fix it right. Mold is definitely gonna be a concern, until it is replaced.

EG

yes, it comes from the water thingi from behind the wall, in the bathroom. my pipes busted a few years ago, (i know)and i never got them replaced, so i just shut off the cold water line (it busted) and turned down the hot water and just used it, and since we use the dishwasher i turned the temp boost on it on. so that was just fine for us, and i use cold to wash the clothes anyhow. it works perfect. but now i want the shower in!! LOL and a HOT shower occasionally, and the shower i picked out has two showers heads, i got it at home depot, and they both come with hoses. i got that for his back. and this shower is the one that has a roundish style closing door that is see thru, and it is on tracks, so they will not be able to get water all over the floor. but i can't wait to tear all of that old stuff out of the bathroom!! OH YEAH!! this stuff is what i love to do, tabor is the same way, i just wish my hubs was on the same wave lenght with me, he's more scared to do this than i am. Hee Hee, when he say's he has to go away for a few days or even a week for the police training, i tease him of what i "COULD" do to the house in even 2 days, OMGAWD!!!! you should see his face!! and hear the words come oughtaa his mouth! Hee Hee and baby their aint no gleam in them eyes!! but there sure is in my eye's!! **huge chuckle**
did i tell ya'll about the squirell that frequently visits us? it comes into our house thru the attick and into the kitchen ceiling thru those fake ceiling peices, then right onto the fridge, and makes a heck of a mess!! goes over to the window to try to get out, but then realizes he can't then goes back up onto the fridge and ceiling and attick and stays up there and back out eventually. its the craziest thing!! and he likes coming in when its raining and really cold. danged if we know where he's coming in from.. we thought we knew where, but closed it off. but then he still got in. hmmmmm......~Medo

Medo - i'm assuming you are talking about a corner shower, with rounded front...here's a picture of mine....Is this what it looks like?

EG

Here is a link that might be useful:

actually ours is just like that, except we got the biggest one they had. LOL but yep, that's it!! WOOO HOOOO!!! LOL ~Medo great minds think alike eh?? LOL **big grinn**

Medo, to keep the cold air out, I would stack those bales against the house. At least as a temporary fix. If you find any mold under there once you get the pipes fixed, just spray some bleach/water on there. About 1/2 of each should be a good mixture. It'll kill the mold, but check ever so often to see if it comes back.

Medo - the biggest one they had???? This is the only one that Lowes has in the store. Hmmm.. Did you order yours? I had to order the tub for upstairs, but that's because my wife just had to have a special one....

EG

ya know my plant room? it had black mold in it really bad, so i took out all of the walling, OMGAWD you shoulda seen my hubs face!! LOL the story i told to get it out was funny though. and how i "found" it. LOL anyhow, i ended up pulling all of the insulation out as well, i found 15 dead mice in the insulation, it was gross!! and that is where the smell was from. and that is how i got to the point to get the wall "down", the "SMELL". you know i HATE smells!! LOL
and i found the mold, which i suspected was there anyhow, so i put 1/4 water and 3/4 bleach sprayed it all over the mold, let it dry, then went back over it again, let it dry, repeated the same step, i soaked it really good. let it dry. and vaccumed the room really well and cleaned it up really well i sprayed the room down with bleach, and wiped the walls down with bleach, do you know that my kids now have very little show of asthma! tabor used to have flare ups alot, not huge ones, just little ones, but alot, and we could never figure it out, till i got to that dang mold. we at first thought he had a reoccuring bronchitus. that just kept on. but no.
once i get that kinda like T thingi that comes with the whole kit for your shower, put in, then that's gonna take care of everything, no more leaks. i'm kinda scared to do that because i've never messed with somehting like that before, LOL YES me SCARED!!! LOL or apprehensive?? maybe that's it! LOL but i'm keeping my eye on the prize!! Hee Hee
will i have to use anything special as in tools? or just the pipe wrench? i have that, but i don't have any sodering things or stuff like that!! LOL

another question, when we moved into our house, we had to change the toilet, and the toilet they had, it musta had a huge leak or something, i know they didn't seal it right, well anyhow, the "wood" is rotted around there, soooo (yes, my house is a MAJOR MESS!! LOL) can i just use the plywood stuff or osb (we have lots of that!! LOL) for flooring? on top of the flooring that is in there now? after it dries? or is that just trashy?? **grinn** ~Medo

Here is a link that might be useful: Barehanded Totally Nutso Gardener!! **Big Grinn**

Medo - concerning the floor where the toilet is....you will need to rip up the old floor, and replace the damaged wood. I would probably use plywood, instead of OSB - but that's just me. Once you've removed the flooring, you'll want to inspect the sub-flooring, to see if it's rotted, as well. No big deal, I can talk ya through it. I'll email something to you tonight, that will make things perfectly clear on how to do this......

Shower......"T" thingy? Ha! email a picture of this thing, if you can......

EG

ya know, its the errrr,,,,, thing that the hot water and cold water or the mixture is on, i just call it the T thingi its what is in my pic {{gwi:1289894}}
see its the piece right above where the two waters go into. LOL you can barely see it. and we got the shower at lowes too. ya, hubs said they had just one size. but i specifically remember talking to the guy and telling him i wanted the next size up. but oh well. we will see, when that danged thing is put up!! LOL ok, i will get plywood, and how thick does it need to be? ~Medo

Here is a link that might be useful: Barehanded Totally Nutso Gardener!! **Big Grinn**

Medo - the plywood needs to be the same thickness as the existing floor. I'm gonna email some scans to ya!

EG

Tabor decided to go do the "movie" to get outside, Hee Hee, and besides the fact that he loves to do them!! LOL so i hope that you find something in here. hubs said he thinks for a short term thingi he wants to put the straw bales around the porch, and put the board on top of the porch. you can see where i have filled in the gaps with that foam stuff, i always forget to go back and cut the rest off, its so sticky! and the "siding" must be over a hundred years old like the house! ~Medo

Here is a link that might be useful: my house

Ok, I know I'm not the person to answer this, so I won't. But I agree with Tabor, your foundation has cracks and the cold air rushes up to the floor from the outside. EG, John and others are fine to figure all that out.

I just wanted to say wow, you have a root cellar in the making! Sure it's ideal to access it from inside, but wow, if only I had that place to store my veggies. Pretty cool!

I never thought of using our crawl space as a root cellar. Not sure I want to push those black widow spiders aside to gain access to it!

I have been down there, though. It's well insulated, and the dirt is covered with heavy plastic sheeting so it's nice and clean. I rewired all of our telephones a few years back (we had a private line plus a business line going to several rooms, and I installed the cable for our DISH receivers. I hated being in that dark hole, crawling on my belly! Mr H will not go in there...I don't think he'd fit through the entry!

Granny

Here is a link that might be useful: Annie's Kitchen Garden

Hehe Granny, you'd have someone professionally build one down there for you, including digging out an area to access from a real entry in your house. I bet you could do it where you live. Nobody has a basement, or even a crawl space in my town. Water table is too darn high. Shame, I miss having a basement, and I'd love my grandpa's root cellar. /sigh

Sinfonian, any digging would be done by me! And I had enough of that last year when I dug that 4-5 foot wide trench around two sides of this 65x12 foot mobile home and replaced the wood skirting with weatherproof skirting! It took me half the winter, but I was slim and trim and muscular for a while! No, I think the garage, the freezer and the canning jars will hold all I want to preserve. But if the need ever arose, I'm sure the crawl space would be an option.

Here is a link that might be useful: Annie's Kitchen Garden

one year, i got so tired of having stuff up in the attick, so i carried everything in crates to the basement, well, that spring/winter, we had soooo much rain that our basement had flooded, and it flooded so much that it went up to the middle of the height, i never knew this, everyone kept talking about their basements flooding so it got my curiosity up. so i finally went down there, and danged if it didnt. we lost alot of stuff. but you could see the water line so it had sit there quite a while. ohhh man, i was so sad. not only that but man did it stink like sewage. so i knew that we had a leak from upstairs somewhere, OOOPS!! found that tooo!! loose wax, man those people who we bought the house from, i was not very happy about, they did not obviously know how to put the waxy stuff on the toillets!! orrrr...maybe it was my crazy kids playing with the toilette! Hee Hee we've definately learned alot from this old, and boy do i mean OLD house!! LOL i have more than hubs because i am so curious than anything how things work and such!! Granny!! i totally woulda loved to see that pic!! i bet your dh was happy!! **big grinn**
Sinfonian, wonder if we could use the stairs though? because it didn't go all the way up there? hmmm......or **being goofy** how about.....put them on a huge slab of styofoam then the thing that will hold them, then if it does rain, it will rise with the water!! **BIG GRINN** ~Medo

Medo, I'd be more about finding where the leak is in that basement area and sealing it. Then I could use the whole space for seedling starting, etc. However, those are really good options if you can't keep it from flooding. Yikes.

And Granny, I kinda figured you would be doing all the work, but that isn't a good option, so that's why I suggested hiring it out. Wow, I can hardly imagine you diging a huge trench. I bet that was work and a half!

i'm just kidding!! **BIG GRINN** i'm winter sowing, all my stuff will be growing when the time is right!! HEE HEE and my roots will be great!! LOL have ya ever tried that? it does really give ya something to do in the "winter" not like there is alot of it anymore, its kinda like ol man winter just throws a fit ever once in a while and the rest of the time he just lets us have a nice time. LOL although last night it was at the highest 65 at 12:30am and then 2:30am 30 with windchill of 20 i think he said. and that was from the thunderstorm that came in. then the rain/sleet that turned all to frozen stuff on the road, and he almost got smashed, i forgot to pray for him last night. how could i do that? i always do for him personally but this time it was for everyone as a group and my "family" as in church and my family" as in my sfg and my rr and traders being safe. not in that order, ummmmm i wouldn't want anyone to "feel" special **onery grinn** LOL ~Medo

Here is a link that might be useful: Barehanded Totally Nutso Gardener!! **Big Grinn**

Yes, sinfonian....it was work! But it went from this:

{{gwi:1289895}}

To this:

{{gwi:1289896}}

Granny

Here is a link that might be useful: Annie's Kitchen Garden

Medo, Did you get the area under your porch closed up. The hay bales would work as insulation, but it scares me a little to increase the fire danger. Sounds like the water leak does need to be fixed but if you have all of that cold air going into your crawl space your pipes could easily freeze again. If you can patch with plywood and seal that would help, but even tarp or heavy plastic put around your porch will help (if you porch floor is solid). I would do what I could to keep warm this winter and keep the pipes from freezing again, then I would be looking hard in the spring for something to "underpen" that house with, especially the porch area. I have seen really old houses built like that where everything was open, but when they were built there was no running water in the house anyway. I hope you have stopped the cold air from flowing under your house by this time. Keep warm.

hubs is off tomarow. so he is going to cut that precious wood that no one is supposed to use!! **onery smile** and use that instead. i should put that he is off "work" LOL he is
"off" every day!! **big grinn** but i can't say much!! i am like every day!! mmmmmm.....make that every minute!! but i have fixed the problem with my dryer also!! WOO HOO!!! ~Medo

Here is a link that might be useful: Barehanded Totally Nutso Gardener!! **Big Grinn**

Hi Medo, I hope the gap clogging is going well. I'm sorry for your troubles. I have a slab like sinf and thought I was cold.
Also the video of Tabor is adorable. How old is he? My son is nine, it reminded me of him. You should have him do a video of your garden this year. I would love to hear about it from his perspective, lol.