Oh, we have leaf cutting ants, they are a terror to all my plants. They can peel a tree in about one night, well sometimes two nights....we have some beetles that measure up to 3" long, I don't think those are a problem, but you get the idea, lots of red ants, black ants...all kinds of plagues. I hope that the SFG method will give me some hope.

Plus, how long to seeds last? Years?

We have 3 seasons here, the dry (where I have to water, but the weather is warm and sunny), rainy (we just got over that, where the natives grow crops dependant on the rain), and now, which is semi-green, the trees lose their leaves....etc...the temp. is about 80's most of the time....never cold.

beadaholic - I think it is great that you are determined to start a garden. I wouldn't care what other people in your area thought about sfg....it works! When the others see that your garden is successful, they will be nothing but envious! About your soil amendments.....you should start making your own compost immediately, because:
1. you have all of the ingredients readily available
2. in reality, it is all you need to grow your vegetables in...Compost...nothing but compost.

Just ask Jbest123....he has fantastic results from nothing but compost.

I really can't comment on the ants that you have, but would think that if they destroy other plants, they will destroy new ones, as well...

Hopefully, some of the other members will chime in...Anyway, welcome to the sfg forum...

EG

Not sure if this is viable or not, but it just popped into my head.....

Problem ants.

Bed gardens.

Raised bed gardens.

Beds raised off the ground and isolated.

How?

Smaller beds than 4X4, and legs in cans or buckets of something ants don't like....

Bleach?

Old Motor oil?

Hell, vegetable oil?

??????

Duhast - I think that is an excellent idea! No ants would bother it then....

EG

Wow, good for you for taking the plunge to be more self sufficient. And your english is great. Are you a native english speaker?

Sorry, but my Argentine sister-in-law and fluent gardener brother couldn't come up with peat moss in Spanish. But I agree with EG. You don't need peat moss or vermiculite. It'd cost you too much to get it anyway. Compost from all those sources is what Mel recommends in places that don't have peat, so just use well mixed compost.

As for bugs. Most ants in the states don't harm plants. I am not the best to help with pests. I research all mine online. I'm sure you can do that too. But it does sound bad. Sorry.

But hey, you do have excellent growing weather!

And ask away. We love to help.

Oh and if you're going to be raising small livestock, you may want to also check out the link below.

Buena suerte!

Here is a link that might be useful: Freedomgardens.org

Welcome!! those three guys up there are the very best for info!! you have great info people up there!! i can just cheer you on!! Hee Hee!! LOL i love it for my flowers!! next year its for my garden. i google everything! no matter what it is, then i look at the images and the web stuff. on all of it. just to make sure. Good luck!! awwww who cares what anyone else thinks?? i have a yard with 3 55 gal containers for compost, and stuff for plants in different places. in the winter i have containers all over the place that has dirt and seeds in them for winter sowing!! so i think its obvious i just don't care what others think!! LOL **big grinn** ~Medo

I would use the most fertile soil that you can find in your area and give it a try.

Vermiculite here is very expensive and I only used it sparingly in some of the boxes. I do however use a lot of peat as it is readily available and reasonably priced.

The rotten leaves sound idea.

As to people thinking you are crazy, just ignore them, I always find that it is better to make and learn from your own mistakes as opposed to taking people advise as always being true.

The thing you have to remember about opinions is that we all have them and we all don't agree and we all can't be right!

Ha! I am so glad I found all of you, just the encouragement is what I need! hehe, ok. I am American but I live down here full time, I am 2,000 miles into Mexico, south of Mexico City in a small Agriculture village that has depended on Pesticides and have problems because of it, birth defects, people cronically sick, and we have very healthy bugs. These are Partially Owned by American Companies that grow herbs here, mainly Basil and Romero, plus others. Also Flowers are grown here. Most work is done by hand, there are hardly no tractors to be heard of here either, and if someone has one they are worth a fortune here...($50,000)...everything is more expensive here just about...

No peat moss (musco pantanoso in spanish I have found out, and no one has ever heard of it here!), as to vermiculite, probably I can get that, but if I don't need it, then what is the point! Ok, I am going to do ONE raised bed, just one, for the test, a 4x4 or 4x8, as soon as we see it works here, we are going to go at it gangbusters! I think my weather here doesn't keep me from planting year around, and that is my plan. The area I have for this is really large and near the house. I am not sure how big it is really but probably about 50 meters by 100 meters or so. It is already pretty clear, just full of the native weeds for now. Eventually I would like to develope this whole area for the SFG. I am going to be careful and do what is realistically able to do. With Armando's help (my Compadre) we should be able to do alot. It is hard for any native here to think out of the box, but I have explained to him that this does work. That he will be amazed (I hope so hehe. That we should be able to produce enough for his 3 kids and wife, and me. That we can do compost, he has heard of this and an engineer came here and did a talk about it, and he is very interested. I couldn't do all of this by myself so I am excited with his help. (can't you tell! hehe). I am really excited and am hoping that we can implement our plans.

I am being very ambitious. I have had the dream to be self sufficent for 30 years and I am going to try to get as far as I can with that. Last night, me and my Compadre (he is the biggest man in town, over 6ft, and over 100 kilos, 25 years old) and he is going to go in on this with me (the whole deal), I have a huge what used to be a water storage tank built out of stone it is about 15 ft x 15 ft, it is old and abandoned, we are going to fix it up and fill it up with water and keep fish in it, fish for eating, they call them here mojarra. I am not sure what they are in english. They are very cheap to buy the babies and the food is .70 cents US a kilo. Then we are going to get some ranch chickens, rabbits (I have never had rabbit, but it is supposed to be good) and quail and put those in an area that I have that is enclosed and safe from preditors (where we had sheep a long time ago)....and do the SFG in this other big area. If I am able to do this, I will have eggs, chicken, rabbit, quail, flowers and all kinds of veggies to eat. I only need milk (there is always the possiblity of getting a couple of milk goats but I have never seen those here), cheese and other small items I cannot produce myself. It would be nice to get off of the grid too, our electricity here is twice the price you pay in the USA. it forces us here to be very creative. Most people just steal electricity. It is a big fine though if you are caught. What I would really like to have a coop garden, but people are not going to do it right off the bat here, they are suspicious and do not trust people. We are thinking that if we have way more than we can eat ourselves we will put in a little place where we sell our excess. That would pay for the seeds, and fertilizers (if needed?) Anyway that is the plan, I know, it is ambiticious and maybe I will have to cut back, but today we are going to go and see about the chickens, we are going to start out with 4 hens and one rooster. We have to reforce the fence for the rabbits and that will be the next plan, here you do not need hutches like in other area, the rabbits here make burrows in the ground and reproduce naturally. We are planning on starting out with 4 females and 1 male too. We have a source for them already. I just don't know where to get the quail. But we will figure that out....We can't grow Iguana's (they are good eating, although I have never had one), they are protected and you have to have permits and all kinds of stuff to grow Iguana. It would be nice, but I think it is over our head. As to pigs, I had some before and do not want to try that again, to much work, they can be mean, and they eat alot. hehe, and STINK! hehe, maybe goats...we will see...maybe ducks and geese...a turkey or two, supposed to all be good eating. hehe. Oh well, I am a nut, and this might be crazy. But I am going to give it a go.

Does anyone know, how long to seeds last? years? I have some I brought with me in 2004 and I am wondering if they are still good? I guess only trying them I will know. I will take pictures of all of our work and progress and post them. If anyone is interested? I really appreciate the encouragement and I have some pots too, that I am planning to grow lettuce and other small things in. Maybe chilis...

Thanks again to everyone! I appreciate the encouragement so much!

We have a product here that the ants won't walk over, it kills them, so we may have to use that, and pour a little wall around the area, it is poison, and it really is effective for them, the poison doesn't kill plants, and it is a white powder, we use it on the trees and roses that the ants find, and they leave immediately. I really do not like to use anything like that if I can help it. But if I am goin to lose a tree I use it. I really do not know what it is made up of. I need to see if I can find out. Everyone uses it for the ants...But the putting legs in oil or something is such a good idea....I hadn't thought of that! Thanks!

Going to check out the link from sinfonian next!

Laura

Laura - your seeds will probably still germinate. Just make sure you plant more than you intend to use, and I think you'll be fine.

We would love to see any photos that you might have! Also, if you need any photos from any of us, please let us know.

I think what you are doing for that family is great, and you should be commended for your efforts. Keep up the good work!

EG

Here is a link that might be useful: EG's Garden blog

Well. That does provide more detail. Where to start.

While one 4x8 bed is a good start, it won't feed 4 people well. And there is no reason I can think of that it won't work, so consider building more. I'd say one per person is a good start.

I say 4x8 because I recommend another site as well. If you want chickens and rabbits, and plan on wood raised beds, you may look into chicken and bunny tractors. You build a movable cage out of light wood and wire fencing that fits perfectly over all your beds. Then you move your birds and bunnies from empty beds to beds to fertilize as needed. Very ingenious. I don't have animals, but many folks do, along with experts at Garden Girl's site. Another good rederence place for livestock. I suggest this because we are more about gardening here.

As for gardening, seeds stored in a cool dark place can be viable for years, depending on the plant and variety. In general, seeds stored under less than ideal temperatures don't do so well. That said, if you had tons of space I'd say plant them and keep replanting til you get good germimation. But if you're trying to prove the SFG concept works, I'd go with the freshest seed you can.

As for where you are, I caution you to be wary of Monsanto GMO seed, or Roundup ready. I've heard horror stories of farms being lost to that multinational company. It's worse in Mexico. Of course, it may be all you can get. Weigh your options.

As for the ants, it's probably Sevin dust. Very effective but poisonous. I've used it against my wife's wishes. Kids and all.

Please take pictures and let us know how it goes. And you are not crazy, just trying to be self sufficient. That's just smart!

Here is a link that might be useful: Garden Girl's self sufficiency site

Bah, the link didn't work. Try www.gardengirltv.com and click on her message board. She also has some great youtube videos on everything you're doing there. Just search for her on youtube. I'm not linking well from my phone today. Sorry.

Here is a link that might be useful: Sinfonian's garden adventure

I would also suggest checking out the Organic Gardening forum here on Garden Web. If you do some searches I think you'll find some useful information on organic pest control. Good luck to you! I'm just starting out myself and these guys here have been infinitely helpful already.

Hi, Laura and welcome, I worked in Mexico City on occasion at ALCOMEX a subsidiary of ALCOA. It was almost impossible to get anything into Mexico unless it was not produced there. Has that changed at all since NAFTA? If not you will have your hands full trying to get any thing that is not produced in Mexico. Diotomatious Earth is supposed to work well with ants. If you make your own compost and add the manure from the animals you are planning, you will not need any thing else. Good luck with your water storage tank, the SFG requires more water than a conventional garden.

John

p.s. I think goats smell worse than pigs. ;o)

Welcome to SFG forum, Laura. Lots of friendly people here who are ready and willing to help where they can.

You can use the rabbit poop right away on your gardens, it is safe and will not burn your plants. The other poos need to be composted, as they are "hot". Don't use them fresh. A movable rabbit cage, where the poos can drop through the mesh in the bottom directly onto the garden, is a great idea.

Fried rabbit is delicious, better than fried chicken. I don't eat it any more, as I have a pet bunny so I now consider rabbits pets rather than food....but they do taste good!

If you need seeds, I'm sure there are some here willing to share with you. It would take but a few from each packet to give you more than you need for your beginning garden.

Granny

I can't wait to hear how things turn out. Just don't put the legs (if your raise it) in water....stagnant water...mosquitos...etc.

Goat milk makes good cheese.

I would take the seeds that I wanted to plant and was unsure of and place them on a damp paper towel. Fold the towel and put in a plastic bag. Check every few days to see if they have sprouted, then just plant the sprouted seed, or you can just check a few to make sure your pack is good. Some things like onion seed don't keep well. I have had good luck with most seeds that were several years old.

hi Laura, i have some beans, long green beans -pole, and some other vege's. for spinach, i have this malabar one, its a vine and it will grow tall and wide. supposedly. i have seeds for it. if you want any of my vege seeds or flower seeds, just email me, i will gladly share with you!! maybe sometime you can share with me later :')
my grandma used to eat every part of the rabbit, squirrel and all them animals. she'd make an awesome stew. of course she was indian so it was not only awesome tasting but later she became diabetic and had high cholesterol because she'd eat the brains and all. i guess it has high cholesterol in there. but i tell ya one thing. they were never hungry!! i shoulda learned from them!! LOL
and to can!! Hee Hee!! your plan sounds just awesome Laura!!! i'd make a couple of them beds though, once ya get one made, trust me, the next one will need to be made, you'll look and say, ohhhh please, i just need to make one more!! ya, that's what i need to do, then the next thing ya know ya'll be right on that. Hee Hee that's tabor (my son) and i. so we don't even mess with the one bed. we made 3. and this week we are gonna make 2 more. fill them babies with all the leaves that are dropping. which happens to be alot!! ohhh and put in the shredded paper. just to annoy the hubs. **big grinn** my dad goes to mexico in the summer with some other christian people and helps build a church every year. they have fun, he's 60 some and he puts the younger ones to shame as much as he works!! LOL ~Medo

Since you have more land available, it may be more practical to look into John Jeavons' Biointensive mini-farm methods. His materials are available in many languages, including Spanish. The English-language title of his primary book is "How to Grow More Vegetables (than you ever thought possible on less land than you can imagine)."

In Spanish, his book is "Cultivo Biointensivo de Alimentos: Más Alimentos en Menos Espacio." Available at www.bountifulgardens.org.

Jeavons' techniques focus on 100-sq-ft plots + compost. Since you have the small animals and other terrific compost resources, plus people who are used to physical labor (Jeavons' double-digging will therefore not be surprising to them), his methods might resonate better with them. Also, there is no cost of raised beds with Jeavons' methods, as there is with Mel Bartholomew's. Even with mostly salvaged materials, I still had to spend some money (which I didn't really have) this year on my three small SFG beds.

Other Biointensive publications in Spanish:

--"Huertos Familiares," by Juan Manuel Martinz. "Booklet used by the nationwide program in Mexico to teach Biointensive mini-farming at the introductory level," according to information in the back of my 7th-ed. Jeavons book.

--"Rotofolio Huertos Familaries," by the same author: Flipchart used for teaching Biointensive mini-farming in villages in Mexico (this might be more useful if you're dealing with non-literate people).

Side note: there was a 6.5 or so earthquake near Chiapas recently. Did it affect your community? Perhaps something positive, like Biointensive methods, will help avert future food shortages from whatever factors.

Best wishes; buena suerte!

Cynthia H.
in el cerrito, cal.

I am very interested in your adventure! Like any garden there are things that will grow great and others not so much. My experience has been that above all else patience, patience, patience.

In addition to your SFG you might want to google "keyhole garden". I don't have any experience with them but apparently they work well.