I posted on your other thread, I'm not a designer, but this looks like a wonderful place to plant and when you're done it will be beautiful:) I had to cut some of the roses I wanted because I'm in central CA and they'd get too tall for where I want to plant them at this time. There are just a few draw backs to a long season and lots of sun. Good luck to you and hope you put photos up when you're done. Leslie

I can't tell from the picture exactly how much room (as in dirt capacity there is behind the culvert, and whether the culvert goes all the way down through the bed or just sort of sits on top) but here's a thought....that iron and pillar fence is actually an attractive backdrop for roses, what about putting some of the larger ones and climbers in the back row? The fence would make a great place for Teasing Georgia, for example.

What about staggering the placement of the roses as you go down the row? Let me see if I can describe this....for instance, put something like Teasing Georgia behind the culvert along the fence, then the next rose down the row would go in front of the culvert. It's very likely that Teasing Georgia (and probably some of the others, TG just makes a good example) will spill forward and fill up the bed, and/or you could put some kind of perennials in front of the ones which are planted in the back. It could either be an "even" staggering, one in the back, one in the front, one in the back, and so on.....or it could be that for every few roses in the front row, you put one in the back. Staggered placement of roses can be attractive, and it helps with the large size of some of them (giving them a fence to sprawl against, plus more room to fountain forward) without blocking your driveway. Hope that makes sense!

Heavens; never entered my mind to think in that direction. I'll give this very serious consideration. I appreciate your comments and the time it took you to compose such a comprehensive response.

The culvert is deep, at least in terms of what it would take to get it out. It's at least 2Â - 3'deep. Still don't know why it's there but it's made of that classic 1940's concrete which seems to be all around Pasadena and is harder than stone. So indeed, to take it out would require a backhoe and then the whole bed has to come out (including the water pipe that runs the base of the culvert on the front side.) Of course if I did that IÂd tear out the wall, widen my driveway and essentially spend thousands of dollars for virtually zero gain in home value. (Think IÂm digressing here.)

The politically sensitive question here is if my neighbor would get weird if I tied a climber off on his fence? IÂm also still concerned about his over-spray. Georgia wouldn't like that so much I think and besides, he and I donÂt have one of those chummy talk it over relationships.

IÂve decided to pull Darby out of the mix. Also, since there is a spot of Wall toward the top, I could put Georgia there on a trellis or pillar. Many of these roses seem to be small in size (Tamora, Molineux) so they wonÂt cause me trouble. The Pegasus, Crown Princess and Darwin are of concern.

Also implied in my question is a question  is it a pain to keep AustinÂs pruned and make them shrub out?

Such a simple project to a design novice is big. Thanks again for your help.

Your neighbor can't really tell you what to plant on your side of the fence, all he can do is cut anything that goes over on to his side.

Seeingthe picture, I'm not sure if the boxwood will be taller than most of the roses, unless you get the ones that only get 2-3 feet high. The Austin catalogue has a list of those. Still, you might wind up doing a lot of pruning. Have you considered some evergreen pencil trees (not sure what they are called) for vertical interest?

Getting in here late. I think boxwood behind roses would be a nightmare. I love it when used in front of roses to hide legginess. When it is kept trimmed. We had it in Oregon and during the summer months it required trimming every other week to look neat.

The fence is a perfect backdrop - Briosafarm's idea sounds perfect to me. However, I would let the neighbor know in advance of your plan. I alerted an "unfriendly" neighbor of something with poor response. Imagine my surprise when after the fact I received a thank you for the prior notification.

An idea for a manageable short green shrub to add interest would be upright Rosemary.

I have a 4-5 x 25 ft. long bed and I planted them staggered(only a couple of Austins, actually, but I have them in another place. They will be big. What about filling the culvert with mexican beach pebbles? (I would fear losing my step and falling into a thorny bush or two.) Could you stagger the plants as I did? Taller ones like Jude and Teasing Georgia need 5x5. Whatever you plant it's going to look great. I'm looking forward to your pics next spring.

I'm still watching this thread for ideas also, peachiekean, that's a great looking rose bed, I like that you didn't just take it straight in front that you actually rounded and staggered your it with your retaining wall. I like those also, I can't tell on your photo the size, I used the tan little bricks for my mini rose garden, they are a good looking brick.

How are you coming along with your project, any new photos of your site you're working on jb? Leslie

I like the length of the bed but wonder how will you water the area. Another rose forum member plants Austins enmass, three of the same kind together which I think would look good in your very long bed. I would also consider choosing Austins that will not have to prune too much. I agree with the above comment about rethinking about planting a hedge of boxwoods behind the bed. Good luck and I know you will figure out a good plan. Please send some pictures.
Sincerely,
Kate

Again, thanks all. I continue to learn more with each commentary.

I should explain that my initial post was rather abbreviated, having little experience with this forum. The reasoning for the boxwood is that there are already at least 8 individual boxwood in the back tier. I decided to add more instead of digging old ones out.

When I first bought this house the boxwood was over 10 feet tall with no lower growth. It was intertwined with Ivy, 3 fences and an assortment of trash, weeds, thatch etc. ItÂs taken this long to get to the bottom. IÂve managed to salvage some of the boxwood (re-growing off of old root stock) and pulling out the stumps from the 40+ year old DEAD boxwood was so much work, IÂve decide to add more than take more out.

Plus, IÂm still into the idea of a water break to stand between my roses and my neighbor. His over-watering and hosing off his patio doesnÂt change, even after discussions.

I considered the 3 at a time method ala David Austin recommendations until I spoke with the guy at my local nursery. Seems that if you plant them in mass in LA, they get HUGE. One seems to be enough for our heat.

I do plan to cut back 1/3 every blush per Austin recommendations to see if I can keep them bushy. My current AustinÂs are not getting that treatment and they are leggy.

I still havenÂt figured out how to imbed photoÂs into this stream but work continues on prepping the bed. IÂve dug away everything that is in the front and am about to till the bed to get out the mass of tuber roots from some evil plant that I call Asparagus fern. The back is clean with Boxwood being the only remaining part.

Both layers need about 4" of top soil removed to get the level below grade of the planters.

Next step, till, drip system and then plant. Am also considering an under-planting to cut down on weeds and not have the sterile bed with roses & dirt that is so common in LA.