Source for Coarse Vermiculite and Expanded Shale
bret_in_houston
18 years ago
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graydawn
18 years agoJacque_E_TX
18 years agoRelated Discussions
tapla and vermiculite
Comments (32)I tend to lean on two experiences when I garden (and read through the gardening forums): I use to be an avid black and white photographer, and I used to belong to a forum dedicated to B&W film and their development. I noticed there were many people who loved film/developer combinations which I did not get good results from. There were probably 10 times as many people who hated the film/developer combination I use and have achieved great results from. Why? Because everything they do is different than what I do... cameras don't quite shoot the same, water is different from one region to the next, tank agitation is different, etc. etc. etc. What I also saw was a lot of people abandoning what they had learned about the film and developer combination (in search of the holy grail) for what someone else was using and getting good results with. I can't tell you how many times the question "What is the best film and developer combination?" was asked. The posts usually went something like: person 1: I use X and love it. person 2: I hate X, I've always used Y. person 3: X was okay, Y was muddy, Z is what I use. etc. The second event, which reinforced what I had learned in the B&W forum, was at a Harris County Master Gardener's plant sale. I sat in on a discussion about growing tomatoes (ToD should appreciate this one). The perennial question was asked, "What is the best tasting tomato?" (searching for the holy grail). The presenter (said to be an expert in tomatoes, but I didn't check his credentials) basically said, "any tomato which is perfectly ripe will taste better than any other variety which is not." I'm sure if we were to search the tomato forums, we would find many discussions similar to those in the B&W forum with people listing their favorites, and not two list are alike. ToD, you were asking why your results were so different than others. I think the answer is quite simple. It was because, as you said, "All other variables were held constant...". You experimented with a very specific set of circumstances. However, if you optimized the growing conditions for all sets of growing mixes, I would suspect your results would be different. Perhaps this is the antithesis of the 2,4,6 problem. I would suggest if it works for you, then use it. You can maximize your results by tweaking your methods. As for my own experiences with Vermiculite. I am among the group which really doesn't care for it, but finds it is a necessary evil in some instances. When I used it in the past, I noticed a great deal of shrinkage in containers. I currently have a small container (approximately 4"d X 6"h) which the growing mix has compressed to about a third (maybe less) of its original volume. Here are some pictures from past years: pomegranate cutting fig cutting Some of the loss can be attributed to the mix "splashing" out while being watered or during rain, but there wasn't nearly enough outside of the containers to explain this much shrinkage. Furthermore, it is evident the Vermiculite has flattened considerably, while the Perlite has held it's shape. Many years ago, I tested coarse Vermiulite (the only grade I've used). I filled a container (same size as above) without planting anything in it. As it dried out, I watered with the gentlest stream of water I could. The container was protected so it didn't get rained on and nothing was around to fall into it or knock it over. After three months, this is what it looked like: It is about a 30% shrinkage under its own weight. Also, without exception, the cuttings I have rooted in Vermiculite based mixes have had much smaller root growth over the same period of time than those grown in my normal mix. These are the reasons why I don't use it. In my particular situation, for my particular usage, in my backyard it doesn't behave in a suitable manner... but that's just me and my experiences. Your experience will be different (at least slightly) than mine. BTW... my growing mix has been a combination of pine bark, expanded shale and Perlite. I have noticed very little settling with these components. ~james...See MoreCost of vermiculite
Comments (8)Thanks, all. My feedstore IS a mom and pop's and they were going to order it. I'm already at $100 on Mel's Mix and can't see doing another $100! I'm going to try one more feedstore but think I'm eventually going to try expanded shale. That's readily available here in NTx. Today's a beautiful day--I can't wait to get the boxes built and planted! Of course that'll guarantee our once yearly snow day, lol....See MoreVermiculite Source List - Throughout USA
Comments (118)I've given up on vermiculite. The so-called "coarse" stuff these days is always medium grade, whenever I come across it. I use bark mulch instead. If you can get it graded and delivered, that's probably your best bet, but I've had to use the bagged stuff from Home Despot - not the dyed stuff, this is Mountain Magic Premium grind. There is a good bit of wood chips in there but it hasn't caused a problem. If you have the space, aging it for a few months before use is a good idea for any bark mulch you are going to use for raised beds or potting soil. I live in a desert, there isn't a lot of choice for mulch here....See MoreExpanded Shale & Coir
Comments (17)Thanks everyone for contributing and sharing your preferences and experiences of using ESCS and coconut products. Im soliciting contexual user feedback and reviews because although I like what I read about the high air-and-water-holding capacity, free draining, structural stable and inert characteristics of light weight ESCS aggregates and coir and coco husk chips and would like to use both, I have not used either one them. Long-term potting or short-term costs are not first considerations to me as long as they are relatively within my means. I figure itÂs my responsibility with the horticultural method chosen to learn from the plants I adopted in supplying and meeting the horticultural requirements necessary to maximize their beauty, health, productivity, and longevity which would include any repotting that is needed. Moreover, any monetary expenditure would be win-win both for a plant and a gardener and would still be economy as long as the horticultural success is reproducible with reduced intervention and labor and that the expenses or costs can be recovered within a reasonable time. I grow many different species of plants but mostly ornamentals. I grow some leafy vegetables, bulbs, lilies, and strawberries (which require good to perfect drainage), ornamentals such as roses and gardenias, annuals and perennials, and fruit trees such as lemons and avocado. Happy to report that my gardening knowledge and successes are both growing :) Though I am fairly satisfied with making my own soilless potting mixes and soil fertility and plant nutritional management, I hope to make another leap this coming year and with your help by building on your successes and failures. My soilless mixes are similar to what many of you are familiar with or are using. My required lightweight soilless mixes are made up a high ratio of composted bark fines (landscape conditioner) and perlite with varying amounts of needed chemical CRF, inorganic and organic amendments, greenwaste compost, or soluble fertilizers as I am gardening high on a balcony and intensively (in area unit) with the least amount of labor for highest quality and yields. Most ESCS suppliers and associated commissioned scientists advertise or claim that ES is pH neutral or that it can be easily adjusted, so if you research and read some of the actual manufacturer specs and MSDS or independent lab test results on ESCS, the stabilized pH range for the aggregates is consistent above neutral and very much higher - 100 to 1000 plus above neutral as the pH scale is logarithmic. IÂm not entirely concerned with such characteristic high pH of ESCS since I know something about fertilizers and plant nutrient management and can always look things up to pH down the growing medium if need be perhaps even at pH 9-10. However, at a highly alkaline ESCS-based root medium, the maintenance of a specific acidic range needed and desired by most plants and especially for acid loving plants like gardenias and strawberries may or may not be feasible or when other alternatives exist. In a short-term horticultural experiment on ESCS and with mixed results, John Sloan of Texas Agricultural Experiment Station suggested a high pH of ESCS may be a contributory variable or cause for the observed reduced growth in certain plant species in the experiment. On the other hand, it sounds like ESCSÂs characteristic high pH has not posed a problem in your experiences. Because both coir and CHC (coconut husk chips) are used in greenhouse productions of orchids, roses, lilies, and gerbera daisies and because coco products tested in greenhouse conditions lasted 2-3 times longer than bark, peat, and sawdust and often with exceptional root growth and yields by comparison in many plant species and in various growing medium comparison trials (not all), I was initially intending to use 50% -80% ESCS and coco husk chips/coir to replace using composted bark fines altogether especially since there can be some good amount of shrinkage even with my high perlite bark fines mix. Moreover, using ESCS, coir, and perlite would eliminate the hated chores of recycling, pasteurizing, separating, and composting old bark fines and perlite and carrying multiple big bags of bark fines as tall and as heavy as I am up several flights of stairs yearly. However, given the tested readings on salinity (ECE) and Na+ on expanded shale and both are not the best and higher than pumice, its likely high pH, and the cumulative weight wet and dry (on my large balcony), I am questioning whether I should use it at all in containers or just use it as a mulch around and over the bulbs. Pumice is a possible alternative and by comparison has a lower ECE and pH profile, but the pH range is still at 8 (or 10x above neutral). Pumice seems heavier than ESCS, and its cumulative weight of pumice in containers (dry or wet) would be an issue for my balcony and for someone who weighs less than 100 lbs to move just one small bag. Perlite and coir/CHC may have to be the backbone of my mix instead of ESCS. You think they will produce comparable success and yields?...See Morefrugal_gary
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4 years agolast modified: 4 years agoI just bought a couple bags of course vermiculite online from A.M. Leonard. Occasionally they have free shipping. So I paid 23.39 per 4 cubic foot bag and no shipping cost (due to a special sale). Palmetto Coarse Vermiculite.
https://www.amleo.com/a-3-coarse-grade-vermiculite/p/PVA34CF/
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