How Many Summer Squash seeds to a 4'x4'?

15 years ago

We are three weeks out for planting here in Florida. I'm still working on my plans. For those of you that have successfully grown bush Crookneck Summer Squash, would I have the space in a 4'x4' to grow more than one plant? I was thinking I could plant two, off center. I plan to use insect row cover over two hoops from day one until the plants need pollination. Also, I plan to grow Waltham Butternut squash on a metal arbor. Do I need to protect the winter squash from squash bugs as well? How to you cover the vines?

Thanks for all the suggestions and help,

Mary

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Comments (11)

anniesgranny
15 years ago
My "bush" yellow crookneck squash grew more than ten feet across, overtaking an entire 4x8 bed and every pathway in sight. This year I'm leaving the squash (all of them) out of the raised beds, and have formed a mound of compost that's about 12' across and well away from the raised beds and paths! I'll do a hill of crookneck, one of zucchini and another of butternut, and I plan on placing three ladders of varying heights over each hill for the vines to climb. As far as I'm concerned, "bush" is a misnomer when it comes to squash or cucumbers!

Granny

Here is a link that might be useful: Annie's Kitchen Garden
engineeredgarden
15 years ago
Mary - you can grow 4 plants in a 4x4, if done correctly. I did it last year, although it was alot of work to keep coiling the vine of each plant. This year, i'll use tomato cages turned upside down, to make each plant grow vertically. The squashbugs will be all over any squash, whether it be a summer variety, or winter. Pumpkins too!

EG
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<But do they fight with each other, is the question.> "Fight" might be the wrong word, perhaps "compete" would be more accurate. As soon as the roots of one plant begin to spread they will run into the roots of the other plant. Competition then begins for whatever available resources are there. Same above ground, there's only so much sunlight available. There's not doubt that a single plant will grow better than either of the two in a single planting space. The hope is that two "stunted" plants combined will yield more than one lone plant. And if one dies due to unforeseen circumstances, you have a backup. In my 16'x22' squash bed I've been planting 6 or 7 plants and getting altogether too many squashes for me to eat. That's one reason I'm trying to prolong the storage time. So this year I scaled back to 4 plants and I got just as much. I'm going to try just three next year and I suspect I'll get just as much. If so I'll try just two the next year. Keep in mind I'm talking about Maximas here which are monstrously growing, branch at every opportunity, have huge wandering root systems, blanket the earth with an impenetrable leaf canopy, and sink down new roots at every leaf node. I'm wondering if in this garden bed a single plant can by spreading, branching and rooting actually yield 300+ pounds of good eating squashes. I'm guessing it can. I would be a bit worried to do that however since occasionally a plant may die or have a fruiting anomaly.
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We have a bed each of yellow summer squash and cucumbers planted in black plastic. We planted them a couple of months ago. The squash plants are starting to form little fruits, about 3 inches long right now. We put a row cover on them and they have survived some low temps: one night of 31 degrees, and a couple of 35 degree nights, many nights in the upper 30s. The row cover creates a warmer environment during the day so they grow faster. In the portion of the bed that doesn't have row cover, the plants are about 5 inches tall. Under the cover, the plants are about 24 inches tall. Makes a huge difference! The uncovered plants were killed back by the frost but some of them are putting out new growth so the roots obviously weren't killed. Our daytime temps have been in the 50s for a week or more and the plants are growing well. The row covers have been in place for about three weeks now. We need to uncover the cukes during the day for pollination. Our honeybees are still out and about during the day. This week is supposed to have highs in the 60s. In spring we keep row covers on our eggplant to protect them from flea beetles. It makes them grow much larger and faster. We take the covers off when the plants start to bloom.
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Hello again Villian189! I am glad that you are rethinking the size of your beds. There are many knowledgeable people on this forum and I am sure you will receive some great advice. I am happy to share what works for me. I have six 4x4 SFGs with paths wide enough to allow me to run a mower in between the gardens and kneel down at the edges of the garden and reach in to every square. I have a trellis at the north edge of most of these beds made out of 2x3s with nylon trellising for vertical plants. I have found that planting 3 vining tomatoes along the 4-foot wide trellis works best. As gblack mentioned, you will get more production from each plant if they are given the room to thrive. I do prune the tomatoes a little and weave them into the nylon trellis as they grow and also wrap them with twine to the trellis supports. The tomatoes do crowd the row of squares immediately in front of them by mid-growing season. So I plant spring greens in these squares (lettuces, arugula, spinach, etc.) before the tomatoes are planted out. If you keep the lower branches of the tomato plants trimmed, they will provide a nice shade canopy for the greens as the summer heats up. Ok, according to Mel BartholomewÃ¢ÂÂs The All-new Square Foot Gardening book, suggested plant spacing for the varieties you wish to grow are as follows: Tomato plants, vine type = 1/square along a trellis Summer squash, bush type= 1 in a 9 squares (3x3 area) Winter squash, vining type = 1 in a 2 squares (1x2 area) Basil = 4/square Oregano = 1/square Cilantro = 1/square Parsley = 1/square Peppers = 1/square Eggplant = 1/square Pole beans = 8/square along a trellis Lettuce = 4/square So, if I understood your latest post correctly, you plan on building two 3x4 SFG. This will give you 24 squares to work with. In this following suggestion, I have assumed you will have a trellis along the north side of each garden along the 4-foot side. SFG 1: Back squares: 3 vining tomato plants can be planted along the north side along a trellis. Middle squares: 3 squares of greens and/or lettuces. 1 square herb. Front squares: Peppers and eggplant, they will shade out your lettuce, but it may help keep the lettuce from bolting when the weather gets warm. SFG2: Back squares: Pole beans - plant these towards the back of the bed right along the trellis and they will only take up inches of your garden space and grow vertically. Middle and Front two squares, plus extra room from the partial bean squares: 1 bush type squash (such as zucchini or yellow summer squash) Remaining squares: herbs or a pepper. This should get you started. Let me know what you think. Rachel GrafixMuse's Garden Spot Blog
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Dapper, I placed an old ski pole in the center (because I had one that I was going to throw away), then I pounded stakes in a circle around the edge of the bed (about 1' in) and tied garden twine to them, which I then tied to the top of the pole. I planted the beans around each stake, probably around 4-6 seeds each, and they grew up the twine. I had to add an extension to the ski pole, it wasn't nearly long enough. While the beans were growing on the outside, I had lettuce growing on the inside (empty, shaded) area. I really don't care for or recommend this method, it's difficult to find/pick the beans that grow on the inside of the tepee. I'd stick to a single trellis if I were you, you could plant on both sides of it. Granny Here is a link that might be useful: Annie's Kitchen Garden
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shebear
15 years ago
I'm with EG. I think you can plant 4 and just have a plot that's one big green blog.

As for the squash bugs, I'm going to try a couple of methods this year. First I'm going to try a organic product called Surround WP. It's a kaolin clay product that you mix and spray on the plant to deter the bugs. It leaves a gray dusty film that supposedly they detest. Next I bought some zucchini that doesn't need pollination so I can keep it under cover all summer. One way or another I'm going to have squash this summer without having to buy it. I hope!
marymilkweed
Original Author
15 years ago
EG - I didn't think "bush" varieties sent out vines? It's been almost a lifetime since I have seen a squash plant growing. I will be using an insect floating row cover over two hoops on this square from the day I plant the seeds. Hopefully I can foil the squashbugs!

Granny - Did you feed your squash plants steroids?
anniesgranny
15 years ago
Marymilkweed, I planted in my sandy soil that had been enriched with a couple of bags of composted steer manure and a bit of leftover peat from another year. I think I sprinkled in a bit of Osmocote for good measure. I put three seeds in the hill and thinned to the best two, then a cutworm took out one of those, so I ended up with just the one plant. I fought that plant all of August and most of September before I gave in and chopped it to bits. My neighbor and I measured the longest vine on it, and it was over 10' long. I'd hate to see how big it would have grown if I had it in one of the fertile raised beds!

Granny

Here is a link that might be useful: Annie's Kitchen Garden
Dan _Staley (5b Sunset 2B AHS 7)
15 years ago
You can plant two, if you plan on taking the time to whack off leaves that sprawl into other squares. My rule of thumb is a bush sq./zucc. gets a 4x4 - less work in the long run. We've decided to forego both zucc and sq this year for one or the other (neither of us has won...um...convinced the other which one we keep).

Dan
engineeredgarden
15 years ago
Mary - if you're growing crookneck, it will vine. Mine were 8-10 feet long, at the end of the season. I just kept coiling them up, keeping them in their little spot. I got 54 fruit from my 4x4 area.

EG
carolynp
15 years ago
LOL, I think ALL of granny's crops are on steroids, personally. Crooknecks vine, but zucchini is not really good for trellising, imho. Their branches come out spider like and weird. I used a 2x2 for the zucchini and it was enormous. I also grew on in with the tomatoes, also enormous and a pain to trellis.
EG: doesn't the de work on squash bugs? Can you remind me where you got it?
marymilkweed
Original Author
15 years ago
Thanks everyone for your advice, this 4'x4' is a single bed, so if the plants exceeds their space they won't be encroaching on other plants. We are going with two plants. EG - 54 fruits from 4 plants was wonderful! As for the butternut, after reading your posts, I've decided to plant one seed in a 4x8 bed with the trellised cucumbers and give it full run of the bed. This bed is also going to be covered with insect cloth. The other butternut will go on the old rose trellis and we will have to beat off the bugs. I love squash, can't you tell! I saute crookneck squash with sliced onions in butter and my husband says it like eating candy. My other 4x8 will be planted with trellised pole beans, bush limas, and cherry tomatoes, green onions and 2 eggplants. The okra will be in a bed on the west side of the house in native soil with compost added.
Granny, this is for you - loved your idea for using clorox bottles cut up for plant stakes, what about using old wire lamp shade frames for plant supports?
engineeredgarden
15 years ago
carolyn - I'm really not sure about diotamaceous earth for squash bugs...I really just find the eggs, and have a squishing party every evening. I kinda enjoy it...and come to think of it, I'm starting to miss it a little bit. Ha!

Mary - This year, i'll plant 2 straightneck, 2 crookneck, and also 2 zucchini in a 4x6 area. I'm not afraid of the big bad squash plants.....heh.

EG
anniesgranny
15 years ago
Mary, I mix the yellow crooknecks with all kinds of veggies! I dice them and add them to green beans for just the last few minutes of cooking, likewise with broccoli. My favorite is to cut fresh corn from the cob and dice up the crookneck to cook with it. The squash seems to take on the flavor of the sweet corn, and it sure makes the $$$ farmer's market corn go farther!

Old lampshades would be great for things like peppers!

Granny

Here is a link that might be useful: Annie's Kitchen Garden

How Many Summer Squash seeds to a 4'x4'?

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