I know our pond was discussed in detail on some koi forums, it was bought up by Roddy Conrad (many years ago) he discussed how we manage to successfully maintain clean and healthy pond practices with aggressive water exchanges and a separate biological pond. I read many of the posts with Roddy but unfortunately missed yours. Water changes and flow thru systems have of course been a cornerstone of fish keeping, from fish farms and hatcheries to backyard ponds forever. Many of the Japanese growers seem to have flow thru systems, but most of us don't have a stream/river in our back yards for that so we have to make due with water changes. Up until the last few years most of the discussion in Koi Ponds has been about how frequency relates to keeping fish alive. In the last few years it's changed by a very few people to frequency relating to other things like clear water. algae control, and increasing fish growth. It's new so interesting to me. What surprised me is that you are already basically doing the 24/7 drip thing except once a day instead of 24/7 and hose instead of drip. Your volume is right in the range of 10-70% per week (varies by goals). And you've been doing it for a really long time so that's good data. Not sure how long Andy Moo has been doing 24/7, he's been around a long time too. And of course you're also using your hose as a TPR and basically the same as vacuum. Whether dirt is pushed to suction or suction is moved to dirt the result is the same. And you're doing it often. Pretty much all the people I've dealt with who wanted a bottom system as a option (not required for fish load) wanted it solely as a convenience. They just want a pond for looking at fish after work and don't want to pick up a hose. I do not belong to any of these forums, ( I did try briefly, however they were beyond snobby) as they have very expensive Japanese koi and they have sterile ponds, (meaning no rocks on the edges) also their filtration systems cost many thousands of dollars and they are quite snobby about their koi and ponds. Hell they don't even consider butterfly koi to be koi. Every forum seems to have a single specific type of pond that the 20-40 dominating posters have. Every forum says they accept all kinds of ponds but that sure isn't true. They'll say "all ponds are different, and that's great" and then launch into telling people why their pond is all wrong. But that's forums, protecting their little world. I most read pond forums that sometimes have good info but I don't find much reason to post very often. I've learned a lot about that I might be able to adapt to other ponds and more importantly so I understand these systems. Aquarium forums are even better for learning but I never post in those since I've never even had an aquarium or are interested in one. But those folks sure know there stuff, lots of test data. I think the hard it is to keep fish alive the better the forum because they have to take everything more serious. Fish farming forums are good too. If it don't pay they don't use it. However, the main reason I won't frequent these koi forums is because with all their expensive and super elaborate filter systems -- many of them they still use PP to help clear their ponds. I don't get it, why subject your fish to dangerous chemicals? If you systems are so wonderful why do they need chemicals and uv lights? You can see the amount of trouble I could get myself into frequenting these forums. :) Besides, my koi are mutts. I haven't seen much in those forums about PP use for general maintenance in several years. Occasional use by few for a specific reason. Or maybe they just don't talk about it. There's been better filters developed since Roddy was talking about PP and way easier to use, and pretty cheap, oxidizers have become available since then too. They need those things because they keep a different kind of pond than you do. For example for me to do the kind of water changes in San Jose would have added about $80 per month to my water bill since they use a tried system. While $960 a year isn't a lot I kept the water clear enough for me using other cheaper means. It's just a choice thing. For my next pond I can design a pond specifically to include 24/7 drip so I can reuse the waste water for landscaping. Here in Phoenix we water the landscape all year, and use a lot of water for that. So the water from the 24/7 drip will be basically free. Free and completely automated me likes. I know Dr. Roddy Conrad from another forum that we were both members of. We got along well,( but I did disagree with his PP practices.) He knew our set-up that why he was able to explain to the koi forum members our set up and aggressive water exchanges. "Successful pond husbantry practices " he called it. I don't remember if the other forum members agreed with him. Probably not. The Doctor that lost all the koi in his pond (twice) was that from on overdose of PP? I don't think I've ever posted directly with Roddy but have reads hundreds of his posts. He may have taught me more about ponds than maybe anyone else, especially when I was first learning about koi keeping. I've just been interested in learning different techniques and don't really have an opinion on whether it's good or bad. Just a tool. A hammer is good for driving a nail, not good for opening eggs. The tool itself is neither good or bad to me. I don't find a lot applications for PP but when needed and useful it works fine. But I'm sure happy Roddy took the time to teach me how to use PP, it's effects, and it's downsides through his posts. I'd be happy to buy him dinner any day. Plus his explaining, experimenting and providing lots of early data on Trickle Towers was very important to the hobby imo. And he took a lot of crap from the peanut gallery to boot which taught me a lot about forums which has helped me in developing software. TT popularity may have been short lived in the Koi Pond world but lead to even better filters. So I take what I can from those forums and just try and stay out of the crap...as best I can.

Not sure why photos are so big on page and not a link but need to stop doing this and just posting... (ie did years of fish rescue and wish people would read real books on the subject rather then ask "yahoo" (you know what I mean). I will post links in another post too long. Some of my photos when I had to sell my tanks, and rock sculptures (real rocks with "hang on back" type of structure - I have background in arts/arts chemistry and sculpture esp, along with biochemistry, and other sciences.) Here is link to source for those HUGE globes (found on canal street, NYC plastics store, went out of business, looked online for years, then saw a light lamp and realize what they are... ) All had filters, heaters hidden behind plant piles - water in one looks cloudy but was crystal clear - biobugs from environmental source (for huge ponds so on but biologist there sent me a sample)... The globe with Swords (sitting on chinese stand) these need anything with a small hole to sit on them) balance water when filling then stable. (put in place) There was ONE blue betta (only as I was giving them away) after I had four young blue betta sisters - from local breeder - - (heard my oops they often can live together) in that HUGE 75 and as they grew up https://www.flickr.com/photos/21430834@N02/sets/72157624858489949/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/21430834@N02/sets/72157626963975954/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/21430834@N02/sets/72157622020140334/with/3809651178/ ** (they are shipped in horrific conditions, many dead on arrival, with water treated with meds (already stressed) then put in cold bowls most die (I would be at petstore cleaning up their bowls and would be there when they arrive - as well fish are sorted out on tables overseas before being shipped) Pet trade has changed from 60's when most all grown locally in greenhouses - I raised fish and would take them in to stores myself. .............................................................................................. Here is some research from legit sources such as (books) zoology, and studies of fish, as well in their environment. (55 years background, pre vet/oceanography) and more, Health care (meaning I can study rx for fish (trickle down from people rx)...and much betta/fish rescue. Flickr photos of Bettas other (sculpted rock backgrounds) Great book - Bettas, with a special Chapter: Tanks for Bettas by Barron's Each species has very particular requirements, ph, temp, space and I am always stunned at how "advice" is given in online forums with most (not all) having no serious research or knowledge base (many great fish forums) - it's as if the blind are leading the blind and having rescued hundreds of betta's in NYC (about to be dumped down petstores toilet (illegal and cruel) I can attest to the end results. Please go to any libriary or amazon and get some books on the subject - or links below. Seasoned breeders, merchants in the business. As well, breeders keep young adult bettas in single bowls due to sheer volume and knowing most will be sold (Betta talk) but the rooms are heated, water changed many times a day and often with water conditioners in them... temporary housing. In native environments they are found in lakes, rivers, and always in heavily planted environments, even in the rice "paddies" of Japan (where I lived for 6 months) which are HUGE systems, with certain algae, mosses and other water plant forms (snails so on) growing in them, which is a great place for bettas. (until harvest time!) They entered into these systems from nearby rivers... Fish, including Bettas when stressed (not what YOU think is stressful but what is stressful to them)... produce/release stress hormones. Putting two males in a tank - or in the ones with dividers which create huge fighting responses (stress meaning the are constantly releasing adrenal/cortisol interior and the other exterior) (which say to other fish - stay away from me)...and eventually this as the toxins they are, poison them interior, weakening their immune system, and the water as well. As eileenaz states - goldfish (cold water fish) and tropicals (bettas air and water in native environment at leat 82 - although they are adaptable to 78 - air as well)... Goldfish as well need HUGE environments and although many falsely think a smaller enclosure creates smaller fish - in actuality their inner organs are stunted and misshapen causing pain and ill health for them. They are as well "dirty" fish meaning copious waste, and like to "mouth" the gravel (which is part of their manner of eating) stirring up debris. Bettas in the wild do not live in "tiny mudpuddles" (although there is ONE species that during dry spells lives in wet leaves and semi hibernate , some survive when the monsoon rains come, many do not - (many hundreds of types including some who "school"). In the wild the short tail is evident, the longer tail "gene" is bred for commercial purposes otherwise in the wild these fish being attacked and unable to escape another's territory fast would not make it. Guppies (their bodies are often betta size now) with their longer tails (if fancy) are often viewed by Betta's as another betta - as well guppies have slightly different water requirements. I had one female betta that was so agressive even in a 75 gallon, that she would attack cory catfish. The best community fish are those that are in their native environment. I have had huge bowls (see photos, actually lamps up to 50 gallon) with Anubias on wood in the center (small heater, filter hidden behind, spot led from ceiling) with a school of black neon tetras (not true tetras) and they got along fine - wish I had taken a photo. The round shape meant endless "room to roam" and fish could go in and out of planted area. Angela - Tiger Barbs (not a good choice at all - note on this site how many keep a few (2-3) stressed need bigger school and space more then five gallon. Why not just have lots of Anubias (same environment) which needs no soil, tied to wood, (conditions water for betta, make sure proper type) and one betta. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/tigerbbehf.htm http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Information.html As you can read here at this great site - many health issues, and not good choice with betta - even if provided places for "them to hide" (why live a life hiding when in proper environment they would be out schooling enjoying themselves, or when stressed nip at betta - All fish need space (read Desmond Morris (zoologist, artist and much more) It was he and his book on aberrant animal behavior at zoos (horrific then and some now still along with road side attractions, bears, tigers in small dirty cramped cages) Just as animals display aberrant behavior so do fish when in the wrong environment NOT seen in the wild. Schooling fish - one or two, three NEVER. These fish school for a reason (instincts) and in the wild these schools measure in the hundreds and thousands, catfish as well. They are ONE individual and should be thought of as one, or else they do suffer from stress. As well just because they are small does not mean they do well in smaller environments - I had 6 - 7 black neons in a 25 gallon. (globe with betta). The old myth one inch of fish for each gallon caused a lot of suffering for decades. I rescued a ten inch pacu once from local PxtLxxd, in NYC - he was in a ten gallon tank... found someone who took him for outdoor heated pond - yeah for him, but I first had to heal his scalded body from fungus as the staff would run a hose directly from the faucets into tanks burning the fish often!!! I have thousands of links - posting a few. (they do not come up in searches now due to placement money google so on). http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Information.html

Awesome Kristy! Congrats!! You guys got some nice ones! Geez..first he sabotages your win, then he sabotages your plants, lol. Men, I tell ya! ..eerr sorry guys, lol. We were gonna hit the beach yesterday after the dentist..but I don't know what happened? Maybe it was cuz I was so cranky with the left half of my head numb, and then hurting, lol..that coulda been it. Can't wait to start goin. The lil one is finally old enough that I am comfortable taking her. The 9 year old still thinks all the advert signs that fly behind the planes going over the beach say "Do not go near the water without holding a grown-ups hand" lol. Gotta get that in the lil one's head too.

Wow! Now, that's my dream greenhouse! I don't like plastic greenhouses (they don't look as exquisite) and these just make me wish I had space for one (even where I live in the country, we have space but not for a greenhouse like these). Mom wouldn't complain about all the plants I have in the house. Pug, it is a good thing we can dream. I can dream being in one in the midst of all the snow here in the winter! Surrounded by lush greenery and beautiful fragrant flowers. Brad AKA Moonwolf