Be careful in picking a maple. If you're lucky, your soil isn't too high in pH, but most of the SL valley has alkaline soil and some maples (I know silver maple is one) are very prone to iron chlorosis due to the high pH of most of the soil here. I've posted a link to a guide to trees for Utah here in the past. I'll try to find it and post it here again.

If you had simply spread the mulch on top, you would have been fine, since it could have gotten nitrogen for decomposition from the air. Mixing it in means that it has to get the nitrogen from the surrounding soil, so it's not available for the plants. You can add anything that is fairly high in nitrogen to help the process. You'll probably have to mix it in for it to do much good (unless you use something like a water soluble chemical fertilizer).

Hi TM,

If youre going to plant it in the same spot, definitely get as much of the undecayed wood out of the area as you possibly can or your going to have the same problem youÂre having with the veggies. When thereÂs too much undecayed matter in the soil, it "binds" the nitrogenÂmaking it unavailable to plantsÂuntil the matter is completely decayed, at which point the nitrogen is re-released into the soil. Any undecayed material will do that, but wood is especially a problem since it takes longer to decay. If you have somewhere where you can pile up the ground up wood to compost it, youÂll wind up with some wonderful stuff. Or you could possiblyÂdepending on what it looks likeÂuse it as a mulch. When itÂs just laying on top of the soil, it decays very slowly and doesnÂt affect the soil underneath where roots are.

When youÂre refilling the hole, I strongly recommend getting some of your native soil and mixing it in with the store bought stuffÂno more than ½ store boughtÂpreferably a little less than ½. If you have two layers of soil that are too different from each other (soil stratification) it can affect the way water penetrates the area, and could lead to growing problems. Even if you need to dig up some soil elsewhere in your yard and replace the missing soil there with some of the store bought stuff, it would be much better for the tree in the long runÂand it would also help improve the area you took the soil out of.

Regarding your veggie garden, my neighbors did something very similar! Last year they mulched the whole thing with a wood mulch, then this spring when they turned the area over, rather than raking the mulch off first, they just mixed it all into the soil. I found out about it after they had done it, and warned them that it might cause growing problems. Last year their veggies were so lush it was hard for them to walk thru the area. This year you can hardly tell thereÂs anything planted there.

After your veggies freeze, turn the whole area over and keep it moist over winter, and, unless you had some really big chucks of wood in there, it should all be decayed by spring and next yearÂs garden should be better again. If there are many big pieces in there, IÂd try to rake out as many as possible. Then turn it over again in spring before you plant If you get a chance and the soilÂs not frozen, it would probably be a good idea to turn it over one extra time in the middle of winter. Just depends on where you live and if you get much snow or not. If the soilÂs too dry, the decaying will slow way down, so do be sure it stays moist over winter. Water it occasionally if necessary. If you usually have snow cover most of the winter, water it really well in fall before the snow starts.

Have fun picking out your new tree,
Skybird

Skybird--Do you compose responses in MS Word and paste them in?

The reason I'm asking is that something has changed in the way pages are displayed at GW in the past month or so. Pages used to display correctly whether I used a standards compliant browser or IE, but now some things only display correctly if I use IE.

It could be that IE is doing it all, or it could be IE and MS Word. I'm just curious.

Thanks to both of you for the info. BP, I actually already have that UT tree reference PDF...it's bookmarked on my computer at work and also the one at home. Thank you! :-) It's a great reference - I can't tell you how many times I have gone over it, since we lost two large trees in our front yard in less than a year. I did know about silver maples being a bad choice. My problem is that I research plants online too much and find really obscure stuff that I get my heart set on. My first choice is a really pretty cutleaf cultivar of sugar maple I found named "Sweet Shadow." There is a wholesale nursery in Oregon that lists it in their catalog. If I can't find someone around here that can order it, I will most likely go with a Norway maple. Hopefully one of those would do ok. We actually have great soil where we are (northern part of Millcreek)...used to be orchards all around. But I should probably get it tested anyway.

Your explanations about the nitrogen make alot of sense. We lost a big spruce tree also (it blew over in a microburst), and when we leveled the area and replanted with grass seed, there ended up being an area exactly where the stump was that just wouldn't germinate. Now I know why!

The stumps of the locust were ground down a bit below the surface, but there are still tons of roots down there (which are now trying to send up a forest in my front yard...and my backyard...and the common area outside our fence...LOL). Would the large roots at the planting site be a problem since they are still alive? Would it be better to wait until spring to plant?

I would go ahead and plant. The tree roots will rot over time and as you keep mowing the "suckers" eventually they should stop popping up.

Hi BP,

Yeah! I do everything in Word first. GW has been messed up for me ever since iV took over, and after losing things a couple times, I ALWAYS compose them on a Word document and paste them in. I just keep a document labeled "temporary" in my gardening folder, and keep adding to the bottom, and every few days I delete it all and just keep going. Besides not losing things, it has the added benefit of spell checking everythingnot that I dont occasionally miss things. And every time I type Skybird, it recommends I use scabbard! LOL And then there are the words I prefer to spell wrong, of course.

Also, it usually takes me a long time to type a reply! Ill start, and then run out in the yard to turn water on or somethingand not get back in for an hour or two! Or Ill stop to eat, or watch something on TVor whatever. Thats why my replies sometimes seem out of context! By the time I actually post, a couple other people have posted since I started the reply. I try to remember to refresh the page before I post to see if anything major has gone on, but dont always remember! I started my reply way before you posted last nite, but refreshed it and saw you wound up posting 15 minutes before I got back. Was glad we agreed with each other when I saw your post! :-)

ALSOevery now and then AOL goes down on me, and if Im working on the GW screen, I loose everything that way. If its in Word, its still thereunless Qwest hi-speed goes downwhich occasionally happens tooor the computer needs to be restarted for some other wacky reason! But even then the document is savedsomewhere! Thats only happened once (restart computer), and it took me a while to find it, but it was there! After I take the time to type something, I really, really, really hate to lose it and have to try to reconstruct it! A couple times when that happened (lost) with long posts I just didnt even bother to start all over. And I hate typing on that little GW screen, but when I do occasionally type a short comment there, I still copy it and keep it "in the mouse" ;-) until I know for sure its posted!

I use Word Perfect, BTW, but I dont think which version would make any difference. When I first started composing with Word, I was using WordPad. Any blank document works for what I want to do. My Word Perfect has a glitch in ithas ever since I got this computerand its a pain to work with sometimes, but it works for what I need to do.

And I have AOL and use the AOL browser which I really like. I can keep 10 screens up at a time and just click on the edge or corner of whichever to bring it to the front. I dont like the way you have to switch screens on IE. And Ive never tried FoxFire or any of the others. When I got my first computer (post internet), I had to have AOL to access my work stuff, and I really like their mail (I can have a bunch up at the same time), and their favorites, and some other stuff, and Ive never seen another browser I like better, so I just stick with it even tho I dont need to use it anymore. Oh, and it has a great popup blocker that doesnt interfere with things I WANT to seeAND I can block animated media!

I havent had any changes in the way GW is workingor not workingrecently. Has something changed on your computer? I just got a notice that theres a Java update this morning, and Im afraid to download it! Everytime I download a Java update, something quits working for me! And its IMPOSSIBLE to get a useable reply from them if you need help! And when I installed IE7, a whole bunch of things got messed up, so I uninstalled it a week later and have never gone back to it. IE6 seems to work just fine! Have you downloaded or installed anything recently? But when GW went cafluey for me, I hadnt changed anything! Is everything else working the usual way except GW? I still have my "usual" problems with GWdont get inbound PMs, dont get thread replies Im supposed to, and a few other things, but its been that way for a couple years since Skip sold it to iV.

Hope you can figure out whats wrong,
Skybird

P.S. TM, I agree with BP to plant it now, as long as you can get the ground wood out and you can dig a deep enough hole to properly plant it. And try Weed-B-Gone for the suckers in your grass. Its working pretty well for me on the neighbors cottonwood and aspen suckers!

Cool, thanks. I'm so excited to finally be doing something with my nasty yard - hooray! :)

Skybird--Thanks for the explanation. I've seen similar behavior on other forums, but figured I could get away with an off topic question better here.

I don't blame you for composing offline. I've lost a couple of posts in the past (but it only happens when they're long and took a lot of thought). Since I compose online and usually open multiple tabs, so it's long after the fact, I often post replies that are "stale" or repeats of what somebody else has already said.

I'm pretty sure it's a change in GW and not anything on my side. For one thing, it only happens at GW. For another, it happens even with posts that used to show up correctly.

I typed in an explanation of what was happening, but realized that it was pretty technical and few (if any) here would care.

I think the change to notifications for posts is more of a change in the default than a change in functionality. I think you can still get the emails, but it used to be that you got the replies by default and had to check a box if you didn't want them. Now you need to check the box if you want replies.

You can definitely get away with "OT" around here, BP. One of the cool things about our community! And I don't think there's anything at all wrong with repeating what someone else has already posted. Since most of what we post around here is personal opinion anyway, I think it helps assure the person who's asking for help that they're getting the right answer. Sorta like the two heads are better than one theory!

But I sure do recommend you start composing on some sort of a blank document. It's just too frustrating when you take the time to come up with a detailed reply to someone---and then lose it. Just stick an icon for WordPad or NotePad or Word on your desktop or start menu (I have all 3), and it only takes a second to pull it up. You don't need to save anything or anything. You can just delete it as soon as you know it's posted right. Sure saves on the "mental anguish!" :-) And it's SO much easier to type on a "real" document rather than that "uncomfortable" little box!

And half of GW really doesn't work right for me! It started immediately after iV took over. With their new privacy policy, I decided I wanted to change my password and email address, and when I tried to do it, it wouldn't "take." I emailed their Help, and never got a reply. And I still can't change my email address, my password, my bio, or any other personal information. It just doesn't work! I finally gave up and changed all my other passwords so none of them are the same as GW anymore! And if you look at the Fall Swap thread, it's had 88 replys so far, and on the bottom it says, "A copy of your follow-up will automatically be emailed to the original poster." Out of 88, I've gotten 0! Every once in a blue moon I get a copy of a follow up to something---and it's usually about 2 months after it was posted! I almost fell over the first time that happened. And apparently outbound PM's work for me (tho I still don't trust it), but I definitely don't get inbound PM's. And sometimes when I preview I get an error message, and sometimes the preview works right but I get an error message when I try to post it. I never know for sure what's gonna happen! At least I am able to post, and it doesn't really matter to me if my bio is up to date or not, so now that I have all my other passwords changed, I'm not about to opt out of our great little community here. It's just too much fun.

Don't let it get too frustrating for you. We don't want to lose you!

Skybird

Believe it or not, I think the changes to GW since "the event" are great. But that's in comparison. I used to participate in an investing community (sort of like Motley Fool, but smaller). It was sold to IV. A few months later it was shut down. So I'm encouraged by the simple fact that GW is still here.

oh nnnooooooooo not something OT....and how dare you hijack my post? ;-O

heeheehee =D

If you use a Norway maple be sure to wrap the trunk for sunscald. They crack very easily on the sunny side of the tree up to 4 years. New stuff our recommends that you mulch rather than plant grass under a newly planted tree.

TM, I may be wrong, but it seems like sugar maples get chlorosis here in Utah. I think the Norway maple will be better.

I have three Autumn Blaze maples that are supposed to be resistant to chlorosis, but two of them have some problems. On one, I had to drill holes and insert iron implants this spring. Not too hard to do, but I'm sure if I ever sell the house, the future owner won't keep up with that and will have a lame tree as a result. I like to plant trees to last a long time.

*sigh*...I thought it was just silver maples that have problems with chlorosis here. I don't want anything I will have to baby, since I am new to all this anyhow. A Norway maple sounds like it would be a pain also...how does one wrap a tree trunk?? I just want to plant it and forget about it (aside from giving it plenty of water its first year or two). This new tree is going in a very exposed location - right by the road on the southwest corner of our property (the house sits about 50 feet back). There is a four-foot vinyl fence a few feet away, but that's the closest thing to a "shady" side there is. Sounds like maybe I need to rethink ANY maple in that location, which just makes me sick to contemplate at this point because I am soooo picky about trees. =(

On the bright side....the flowering cherry I planted in the spring seems to be doing well so far. I mulched about 3' around it, am watering deeply once or twice a week, and it looks happy. I am so thankful for that little tree! It keeps me hopeful and wanting to move ahead with all this. Flowering cherries are my sentimental trees from childhood, and my mom ordered this one for me. :-)

I haven't wrapped my Norway maple and it didn't scald. I like it much better than my Silver maple because it doesn't break nearly as easily in the wind and snow.

Hi TM,

Im not sure if this will help or not, but heres the deciduous tree fact sheet from the CSU Extension Service and it has information about a whole bunch of different maples.

Skybird

I've done a quick google search on sugar maples and chlorosis, and maybe you'd be OK. Seems like it's the silver maples that are the bigger problem, along with red maples. There are a few references to possible chlorosis with sugars, but it seems like they're saying it's not as common a problem as with reds and silvers.

And, by the way, I feel ripped off by my nursery six years ago. They told me that the Autumn Blaze maple was resistant to chlorosis -- that it was a hybrid that gave the fall color of red maples without the chlorosis problems. They lied! Looking around on the web now, it seems widely recognized that Autumn Blaze is prone to iron chlorosis. I should have done some research on it before I trusted them. So now I have three of them with one doing great on its own, one needing iron implant supplements last spring, and the third looking like I'll have to give it supplements next spring.

Here's what I did.

I bought a 50 lb bag of soil sulfur and also bought a bucket of iron sulfate (even though I knew it wasn't a lack of iron that was affecting me).

I used a bulb auger to make holes in the ground around the dripline (basically as far out as the branches go). I poured sulfur and iron into the holes and filled them back in.

I also added as much compost as I could make, as well as UCG from Starbucks.

Some new leaves were turning yellow this year late srping/early summer.

I bought a couple of gallons of muriatic acid from Home Depot (it's diluted hydrochloric acid and is used for swimming pools and for cleaning concrete, I think).

I filled a 5 gallon bucket with water and added two cups of the muriatic acid. I then slowly poured it near the dripline. I also set the hose on trickle and watered that in. I did this in 4 spots around the tree. A month later, I did the same thing in 4 different places. I no longer see any yellow.

If you try this, make sure you add the acid to the water and not vice versa. I'd also try it at half the rate first as a test.

Thanks, Stevation. I just got done (or I should say, mostly, my husband) digging out some soil samples for testing. Hopefully the results will give me some clue which direction to go in. I don't know that I am willing to gamble with a sugar maple and just cross my fingers. I, like you, want to plant for the long term - but I know myself and I am too lazy and have waaaaay too many other things to do in my barren and weed-infested yard to fuss a lot over one tree. (So, bpgreen, the answer would be no, I'm not that desperate. But thanks anyway!) I have also started thinking about a fruitless sweetgum but they don't like alkaline soil either....arrrrrrgh. The Norway maple I was thinking about is "Pacific Sunset" which is actually a Norway crossed with a Shantung maple.

Oh man...I would feel ripped off too! Nothing like believing you have just the right tree for your needs only to find you were given the wrong info. :-\ I hope they do ok on the supplemental iron and it doesn't become too much of a pain for you.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions!

I have 110 autumn blaze maples. They are 4 years old and 12-15 ft tall. The leaves are turning yellow. Do I have problems?

I would guess you're seeing signs of iron chlorosis. There's probably enough iron in the soil, but the pH is too high, so the tree can't make use of the iron.

As a short term fix, if it's below 80 degrees, you can buy some water soluble iron and spray the leaves using a hose end sprayer. Adding a little shampoo will help it spread more evenly on the leaves. This is a very short term fix and will only last a few weeks at most.

For a somewhat longer term fix (but still relatively short term), buy some EDDHA iron chelate and water it in around the drip line of the tree according to the directions on the package.

For the longest term fix, drill holes around the drip line of the tree using a bulb auger and fill them 3/4 of the way with soil sulfur, then cover with soil.

The only other thing I can recommend is to top dress with compost, chipped wood, or any other organic matter you can get your hands on as often as you can. That will help to buffer the soil so the alkalinity won't affect the trees' ability to use the iron.

This reminds me of something I wanted to mention re chlorosis. I have three spots in my yard where its an issue, and all of them are where, during construction or renovation, the ground was dug up fairly deeply, like 5 feet down, to lay pipe.

One is a rose bed, where the plants just won't do well on the half that was dug up, even 7 years later. A few of these years it wasn't noticeable, coinciding to the years I put 6" of compost down. But this year again, I have roses on one side of the bed with yellow leaves, turning brown at the tips.

I have a section of lawn that turns yellow every year at this time, its where the propane and water drain pipes from the house run. I can get rid of signs of this by using high Iron fertilizer. This was dug up over 25 years ago.

And the third spot is where the water line comes into the house from the road. I have two trees along that excavation / fill line, and one I ended up cutting down it was so bad. The other, a peach tree, isn't anything to write home about.

So, I'm wondering if there isn't some really nasty stuff down 5 feet or so, that is just going to give problems.