You say that it's beem very hot and dry lately. Are these newly transplanted? Some of my newly transplanted gaillardia and lavender are looking just like that on hot dry days lately, and that's normal. The air is so dry that the plant's roots can't keep up, even though there's plenty of moisture in the soil around the roots. Some times, when we have horribly hot dry days after much cool wet, even established plants such as roses have done this for me. The roses grew tender juicy stems adapted to moist conditions and then mega dryness hits. The air is just pulling the moisture right out of the plant.
If this is a new plant, the roots still have to heal before they can adequately bring up enough moisture to the stems. Some people remove foliage to reduce the amount of moisture the roots have to transport to the plant. Some people increase the surrounding humidity for the plant - this isn't by increased watering at the roots which could rot the roots, but by misting or watering the surrounding area.
Too much watering can cause root damage which would also look like this, but you've ruled that out. It doesn't look like any disease I've seen.

I *just* looked and noticed my established, self seeded gaillardia doing this so I'm going to blame it on a drastic drop in humidity. They'll adapt after a while. They always do.

Hi High,

I agree with Cnetter. I dont see anything seriously wrong with the ones you posted pictures of. The gaillardia and coreopsis are both xericÂand the yarrow visible in the backgroundÂand many xeric plants "wilt" in the hot sun to conserve moisture. If they just take a siesta when it gets hot out, they need considerably less water than if they try to stay all perky looking all day. I have to just about tie my hands behind my back to not overwater my purple coneflower and a few others that wilt almost every day for a few hours. ItÂs torture for me to watch them, but itÂs just what they do naturally.

To be sure youÂre not overwatering, rake back the mulch near one of the plants and dig down in at least 6-8"Âor as deep as the bottom of the roots would be, and see what the soils doing down there. ThatÂs where xeric plants get much of their water. You could possibly find that itÂs dryer than you think that deep down, and maybe they do need a good, SLOW, deep watering. My guess is they donÂt.

If you go out after the sunÂs been down for an hour, are they looking ok? If not there may really be a problem. I sure donÂt see any evidence of disease in the pictures. Whatever you do, donÂt start keeping them wet trying to help them. ThatÂs the worst thing you can do. You may just need to learn to cringe a little bit when you see them and keep on walking by. ThatÂs how I deal with my echinaceaÂand agastache, and sometimes even my callirhoeÂwhich is about as xeric as a plant can be.

Let us know if they stay wilted after dark,
Skybird

Those pictures were taken early this morning, after the nice cool night, not in the heat of the day, so you can see why I am a bit alarmed. My first reaction was maybe they need more water, but like you said Skybird, then I would probably kill them with kindness.

Cnetter, most of the plants affected were put in last summer, though a couple of the ones planted earlier this spring are doing it too.

Dig down in to see what's happening down where it matters. Maybe they really do need water. How wet the top couple inches is doesn't really tell you what's going on. If they ARE dry down deep, you can thoroughly resaturate them by laying the hose at the base of each one for 15 or 20 minutes on just barely a trickle. If they're dry, you won't/can't overwater them by saturating them. Overwatering happens when plants are kept wet all or most of the time.

Skybird

I'd guess they need water. In my experience re over-watering, it happens far more often in containers and pots, and perhaps in my yard when I leave the irrigation on for a week in one spot. But those look dry to me. So I'd do as skybird and others are saying, scrape away the mulch and see how moist the soil is. It should remain moist, not water-logged, under the mulch.

Well, here is my report back. I dug down about 6 inches and the gaillardia, which receives some water from the yard irrigation, was moist all the way down, but not sopping wet. The coreopsis, which has not received regular irrigation was moist for the first 3 or 4 inches, then slightly damp the rest of the way. So I hand watered the coreopsis plants, and left the gaillardia alone. Then this afternoon we had a couple of short scattered rain showers, and the temperature cooled off to the low 70's. The stems are still droopy, but it doesn't seem to be affecting the foilage. There seems to be something else at work here.

This is very frustrating, since I can't fix it if I don't even know what the problem is.

I get up at six in the morning, so I'll see what mine look like then tomorrow. I know mine are ok (I've had them and their offspring for around 20 years), although they get very little water. If they're droopy too, then I'm thinking it's natural due to some dry weather.

Are they on the west side of the house, getting full sun in the afternoon?

I have a full grown, 20 year old lilac bush that shields the door on the west that will seriously droop on a hot, sunny, arid afternoon.

Ok, I have a diagnostic test for you! At this point, from what you said, Im betting they do need a good, deep watering. Pick one of the gaillardia and do the hose at the bottom, just barely running, and leave it there for 20 minutes thing. Tomorrow youll know if that solved the problem or not. With clay soil, hand watering wont get the water deep enough to be sure deep watering is the problem/solution. If the soil isnt saturated, youre not going to kill it with a good watering. I just heard you have red flag warnings out there, so Id say too dry is a good possibility.

But remember that even if theyre well watered, they may wilt some when theyre in hot, direct sun tomorrow. I had at least 6 things wilted todayincluding the callirhoebut its cloudy now and they all look fine. If theyre not coming back when its cloudy/cooler/dark out, they probably need a good drink. Except for the wilting, your plants look really good, and its not very likely that a lot of different plants would all have the same problem unless its a watering problem.

Let us know,
Skybird

David, the house faces primarily south, so everything is definitely in full sun.

Skybird, I turned the drip irrigation on just now, and set it for 25 minutes. It doesn't reach all of the plants, because I planted a whole bunch AFTER the landscape guy finished putting in the system, but it will get the ones that look the worst. He left me with extra tubing and connectors, I just haven't had time to fool with it, so I will have kind of a built in control group. I'll let you know how things look tomorrow.

Thanks everyone for helping me problem solve.

That would be an easy solution if it works, so, fingers crossed for you.

Skybird

Well, bad news this morning. The plants all look basically the same this morning. No difference between ones that got watered and ones that didn't. I was looking closely at one of the coreopsis plants and noticed some unusual leafy growth near a couple of the flower buds, and now I am wondering if this could be the early stages of aster yellows. I did a search on it and all of my plants that look ill are on the list of susceptible plants.

Here are some shots taken this morning. I hope they are clear enough for you to see what I am referring to.

If this turns out to be aster yellows, I am in BIG trouble since half my garden is made up of plants on that list: coreopsis, gaillardia, echinacea, and cosmos.

I know these are just plants, and that loss is part of gardening, but this whole thing is making me sick.

I checked my gaillardia this morning at 6 and 8 for comparison, (I also have coreopsis, echinacea and an awful lot of cosmos) and all look totally perky, incuding the newly, brutally transplanted.
I was thinking that your established gaillardia should look better if the soil was at all moist, since the soil mine are in is very very dry. Actually, gaillardia is one plant I have killed by overwatering. They die in the regular garden, only to reseed where I have no irrigation. They'll wilt if it gets real dry and hot mid-day, but look good in the morning.
I've never had aster yellows that I can recall, I don't think the vector for it is here in Colorado. Plus, I think I recall yellow veins as a symptom.

Hi High,

Ive never had aster yellows, so I didnt know anything about it and Ive been researching it, and I dont think thats your problem. Youre plants look great except for the wilting, and everything describes aster yellows as pretty much completely distorting the plants. Also, and this is a big one, the buds and flowers are always described as being erect. When I did a google images search for aster yellows, none of the pictures looked anything like any of your plants.

Here are a whole bunch of quotes taken from different sites:

Symptoms
A major symptom of aster yellows is chlorosis, or yellowing, of the leaves. The leaf veins often appear clear, which distinguishes aster yellows from yellowing caused by nutrient deficiencies, in which the veins remain green as the leaf blade yellows. Leaf yellowing usually is accompanied by slowed growth of the plant, and new leaves tend to be narrower and smaller than normal, and sometimes curled. Infected plants often have a stiff, upright appearance, with branches joining the stem at narrow angles. Infected carrots roots may be excessively hairy and bitter, and in lettuce, inner leaves may be curled and twisted, whereas outer leaves do not develop fully and have pink or tan spots. On onion, leaves are small, twisted and yellow.

Plants may be stunted or with numerous secondary shoots. Foliage is yellow and seeds are usually sterile. Plants have an upright habit of growth. In many plants the veins of immature leaves are clear. Affected leaves are somewhat narrower than healthy leaves. Old leaves may develop a slightly reddish, brownish, or purplish tinge in the late stages. The main branches will be shortened. Flower parts may develop into leafy structures.

Distorted, abnormal growth occurring in the flowers of a plant, is likely caused by aster yellows. Aster yellows is a disease caused by phytoplasma, which are somewhat like bacteria and cause a variety of unusual and strange symptoms. The heads of flowers may be deformed or lopsided and the flowers may remain yellowish-green, regardless of the variety's normal color. Leaves may also be yellow and the veins pale white.

The first symptom of the disease is vein clearing, the loss of chlorophyll or green pigment in the leaf veins. This is followed by yellowing of newly formed leaves, sporadic bushy growth, erect growing habit, and stunting. Stems and flower stalks may be numerous and spindly. Flowers often remain green and become distorted. Seeds and fruit do not develop.

The whole plant is generally stunted and spindly.

Pale green or yellow twisted leaves; stunted, stiff, upright growth; beautiful blossoms replaced by bunches of deformed, sickly leaves - what could be causing these bizarre symptoms on your favorite aster?
---------------------------------

Before I give up on the watering, do one more thing for me. Dig down in on the other side of the plant you checked yesterdaythe same depth or a little bit deeperand see if its really noticeably wetter than it was before you turned on the drip line. Dont dig down in the same place since freshly dug soil will absorb the water much more quickly and easily. If youll do that, Ill shut up about the watering.

I dont know what to think of the problem now! Ive never seen plants that look so good where a wilting problem wasnt associated with watering somehow. And if its not watering, I dont understand why the same thing would be happening to several different plants at the same timesuddenly. Are they all in the same general area? Are you seeing any changes at all in them at any time of the day/nite? Have they gotten noticeably better or worse since you first noticed the problemany observable changes at all?

There has to be an answer,
Skybird

Based on my gaillardia, coreopsis, calliopsis, etc., which are not watered, I would have thought your plants would have perked up in the morning, so I'm going to make some totally wild guesses..

Is your water softened?
Have you fertilized lately?
Do you have aphids - which can suck the life out of tender new growth? I didn't see any in the pic, but figured I'd ask.

Any other root chomping vermin come to mind?

Ill add one more! While youre digging, dig over to the roots and see if you find evidence of "anything!" Either something like voles, like Cnetter is mentioningtunnels/holesor right around the roots for any signs of insects like wooly aphidsyoud find white patches! Ants---this is the season! Tho I dont see how youd get something like that on a bunch of different plants all at the same time! Any signs of anything at all besides earthworms?

I really expected them to have perked back up by this morning too!

On my plants with aster yellows, the first or most obvious symptom I notice is the yellowing of the leaves which is as Skybird described in her symptom section above, clear veins versus the green veins of nutrient deficiency. During my first experience with aster yellows, I thought I had a nutritional deficiency so I fertilized the plants and let them live several more weeks before I saw the distorted blooms. Ever since then, I notice the yellowing and destroy the plants before the deformity develops.
I don't see the characteristic yellowing on your plants and the deformity of the leaves/buds is different. Are the deformities more widespread then just the one plant?

I thought some of those leaves looked like they were twisting a little. Is there a chance that they got some drift from 2,4-d?

One other possibility, since you said the soil is wet or damp, is that they may be getting too much water. The frustrating thing is that sometimes over and under watering can cause many of the same symptoms, and you can cause more damage just trying to figure out which it is.

I'm thinkin' what bpgreen is thinkin'. Did anybody spray any broad-leaf weed killer anywhere near?

As an example, I had some Clematis sp. growing up by the front gate, and this thing turned out to be a total weed, wrist thick stems, breaking the fence, new roots where ever a stem touched the ground, and lots of little ones showing up everywhere in the yard. I cut it down and sprayed the stumps with a combination of roundup and 2,4-D. A month ago, there was some growth, and I got it again. I'm using the recommended dosage for spot spray, so I'm not sloshing this stuff around.

There was a regular old clematis along the fence, 3 feet down hill from the monster. I watered the whole area heavily last week. I seem to have washed some 2,4-D around a month later, because the poor clematis as well as some of the new growth on a nearby lilac look awful.

I was pretty careful, and didn't over-do it with the spray, but still......

Thank you everyone for helping me figure this out!!! This is what I love about this forum, everyone is so supportive, plus it is great to be able to draw from so many people's experience.

Let's see if I can answer the questions:
Skybird, I dug on a different side, soil looked about the same as yesterday. By this afternoon the huge coreopsis plants were a little perkier than yesterday, but now I noticed my echinaceas starting to do the same thing. The gailladia still looks pretty pitiful.

Cnetter, our water is not softened, it is irrigation ditch water. I have not used any fertilizer on the perennial beds. There is no evidence of any animals digging in the beds.

Bpgreen and David, the deformed leaves on the coreopsis are kind of twisted, and there are also abnormal leaves on a couple of the echinaceas as well. There are some deformed leaves on the swiss chard and basil in my veggie patch too. I am trying to stay chemical free since I have little ones running around. I have been using soybean meal on the lawn as a fertilizer, so if there has been any drift of chemicals it would have to be coming from another lot.

Would heat stress cause a plant to have mishapen leaves, or does that indicate that a pest or disease is present?

I decided to run the drip irrigation again this evening since there was a slight improvement in the coreopsis, and the dirt around a few of the echinaceas was still pretty dry. I'll let you guys know how things look in the morning.

How far is the next lot? If it's close enough, there could be some drift. It doesn't take a lot to get some damage.

Heat stress doesn't usually cause misshapen leaves that I've seen. It usually causes curling inward (not the twisting curling I thought I saw in the pictures) or browning.

Good luck in solving this, and please keep us all posted.

Well, this morning things did not look well, and the winds have broken quite a few stems on the large coreopsis plants. I will have to wait until the weather calms down to assess the damage.

Bpgreen, we live in a typical subdivision, not sure of exact lot size, but it is a new development so we only have one neighbor so far. There is an empty lot next to us, across the street, and behind us as well.

I have two thoughts:

Is it possible some chemical got into the irrigation water? Ask some neighbors who use the irrigation water and see if they have the same problem.

When you've dug in the garden, are you finding any grubs? I've had a few problems with cutworms in my garden, and sometimes I get a result similar to yours, but it's usually just part of the plant. The cutworms chew at the base of the plant at night, and in the morning it starts to wilt. If the wilted stems break off easy at ground level, this could be the problem.

OK, maybe a third idea, too: I have heard of verticilium wilt, but I haven't experienced it. Could this be a soil-borne disease like that?

I certainly wish you the best of luck! It's very disheartening to start losing multiple plants and not know how to stop it.

I have an idea. If the subdivision is new, and a lot to you is still empty...could the developers have used the 2,4-d on the lots in order to keep them looking good before they are bought and maintained? Just a thought, maybe asking the developers what chemicals were used in the landscaping.
good luck!!
J.

Hi...if you're wondering why a z6MA person is responding, it's because 25 yrs of gardening was spent in Denver...I just moved back to MA 3 yrs ago.

Question....how is your soil amended? Is it totally clay or ???? Also......I'd dig up two of your plants and see if there is any evidence of pill bugs (roly polys) chewing on the roots. Although they supposedly are drawn only to damper areas, I had a catmint pretty much devasated once that was in almost full sun...very dry area under a pine tree. Sprayed insecticide, replanted and it was fine. There were HUNDREDS of them in and around the root ball!

Also, it does sound like you might be overwatering very xeric plants....even a few times a week might be too much. They don't need it and don't want it. I've had Gaillarida for many years and it goes totally unirrigated just fine...even during the major drought that we experienced during the late 90's through 2006. Those plants should have very light, sandyish or loamy soil to do well. Clay, when watered too much, retains the moisture and prevents the roots from accessing it...and there's a lack of air which they need.

If you don't spot any critters, I'd add more plain compost (nothing rich) and replant. Then see how those two do. That's my best guess(es!)

Oh, overwatering many plants can give the same symptoms as underwatering....especially when in clay. Drooping "etc". That's why I'd do a replant on several as a test.

I'm sorry to take so long to follow up, but I have been doing a little research. I have more information, but no actual answer yet.

The developer actually DID spray 2, 4-D (whatever that is, and BTW does that stuff kill grass too?) this past Saturday on all the empty lots. I made sure I was outside at the time, and asked him not to spray next to the property line, since my vegetable garden is right there, and offered to pull all the weeds running along my property. It was windy that day, and there could have been some drift, but I can't say for sure if the plants had already started drooping before that or not. Even if they did received some overspray, that would not explain the abnormal leaves that were already there. It does seem that only plants with flower buds have droopy stems, and it's not the whole plant that is drooping, only towards the top where the buds are.

Quite a few of the stems on the largest coreopsis plant were laying down after the wind the other day. Even the ones that weren't actually broken came off rather easily, so now I am thinking maybe it IS something like cutworms or pill bugs. I just hate to dig up a plant that is covered with buds, knowing that I am giving up the blooms I've waited a year to see. Everything was planted late last summer, so I haven't see ANYTHING in bloom yet. Yes, I know it is worth it if it saves the plant, but that doesn't make the idea any more appealing.

Jant, I know that gaillardia are very drought tolerant, but at my last house in Castle Rock, CO, I had them planted along the deck and they received plenty of overspray from the sprinklers, and did just fine. My previous experience with them is that they grow like weeds. When I tried to get rid of a few of them, that were too tall for the spot I had them in, they kept coming back after I had removed the plant. It took a couple of summers to completely eradicate them. With the wind we have been having lately, I don't think a little mist a couple of times a week could be drowing them. As far as the soil, it has a lot of clay in it, though I do ammend it a little as I plant. I have heard lately that it is better to ammend the whole bed, but it is a little late for that now. Besides, I have purposely tried not to make the soil too rich, since most of my plants are xeric.

If you guys think it is necessary, I will dig up a couple of plants to check out the roots ... but I won't be happy about it ; )

Oh, you won't lose any blooms if you dig up...Gosh, I've been moving Lilacs in bloom lately! You name it, it's got wheels in my garden, lol. That's a shame about the spraying and kinda STOOOPID that they do it on windy days.

Anyways, take your shovel and go out past where you think the roots are....just a bit and find where the roots end. Take ALL of the rootball by gently digging around in 3 or 4 places and then go deep and get the whole thang! Since you're not moving it, you might set it in a bucket of water or something before you replant. I'd amend a LOT btw.

I love digging and moving....snort. Oh, with the mulch? Make sure it's not around the crown of the plant. Curious to hear what you find, if anything!

Oh, I never amend a whole bed...just each hole as I plant...about double the width of the plant.

Oh, I just spotted something else you said about watering in the evening. With the sprinklers hitting the blooms and no sun to dry them out and straighten them up, the weight of the water causes the blooms to eventually ALWAYS stay in a "droopy" position. We get a fair amount of rain here at times and a lot at night and that is a common problem...especially with xeric plants....which I've kinda given up on here. Too much of a good thing...they don't want great soil and water, lol. We always had our sprinklers set for 4-5 am which worked well.

2,4-d is a broadleaf weed killer. It's the main ingredient in Weed B Gone (among others). It will usually not kill grass, but if the grass is very young or if it is too hot out, it may kill the grass.

It doesn't take a lot of drift to have some effect on plants. They'll often curl but not necessarily die if they get hit with some drift.

If you started seeing the effects before the spraying, it's probably something else, but it may be that they got some stress, then a little spray exacerbated the situation.

Aside from the drift, 2,4-D is also fairly persistent in the soil, and will hurt plants for something awful like 4 - 6 weeks after application, depending on temperature. It will also move through the soil with water, so stuff thats down hill can be affected as well.

I don't know what to do to neutralize the effects after it has been absorbed by the plant. My limited experience with plants that have been hit is that the next growing season, they are fine.

I still don't know what caused the drooping stems, but here is a picture of the largest coreopsis grandiflora 'Sunburst' plant today. I removed about a third of the stems after the big winds flattened them last week.

Does anyone have this plant? Does it have a tendency to sprawl and flop like the sedum 'Autumn Joy'? I'm wondering if it needs a support like a peony hoop or something.

I've had these many times in my garden, but not given much thought about them other than the color they added. They were more of a filler and can't remember their getting much larger than the ones you are showing. With xeriscape a lot of the plants need bunches of the same together to bring a feeling of "landscape". Most are whispy foliage with small, tender blooms. There are exceptions like your gaillardia, yarrow, etc.

Hi High,

I think maybe everybody is running out of ideas about thisI know I sure amso since your plants look really, really healthyexcept for what looks like wiltingand it looks like the buds are getting close to opening, Im going to suggest just waiting till they start to open and see what happens then. Im starting to wonder If some of the droopiness is normal since the foliage doesnt appear to be at all wilty looking. The buds on poppies hang WAY down until they open, and then they stand right up. Ive never grown that type of coreopsis in the ground, and I cant for the life of me remember what they looked like when they were budding in pots at the garden center. Maybe theyll perk up when the buds open. The plants just look too healthy to be too worried about them. And looking at your pictures, most of the buds look fine, and I think the few distorted ones you took pictures of may just be anomalies. I think I do remember seeing an occasional coreopsis bud doing that when I was selling them. So since your plants definitely dont look like theyre about to keel over, try to not worry about them too much for the next week or so until they start to open and see what happens then. Even if something very strange has happened to the flowers this year, it sure looks to me like the plants themselves are going to be fine.

Really curious now,
Skybird

First, I want to say thank you to Skybird and the rest of you, who have tried to help me figure this out. Everyone is always ready to help each other solve their gardening dilemmas, which is one of the things I love about this forum.

Here is the latest report. The drooping on the coreopsis, echinacea, and gaillardia have improved with more regular watering. They still get a bit wilted towards late afternoon, when it is over 90, and it has benn 2 or 3 days since their last watering, so I do think that underwatering was PART of the problem.

This picture was taken yesterday.

Now for a disturbing picture that may just confirm my original conclusion of aster yellows. The twisted leaf growth and the drooping may not have been related, which made diagnosing the problem more difficult. However, this flower, and a couple of others, have the leafy growth that is common in aster yellows.

So what do you guys think?

If this is aster yellows, do I just pull the plants that have deformed flowers and leave the rest? On the list of susceptible plants (see link below), I have at least half of the flowers and vegetables listed. I know that there is no cure, and that any affected plants need to be destroyed, but do I have to wait for blooms to be certain a plant has been infected? What about the vegetables? I'm growing carrots, onions, parsley, pumpkins, strawberries, and one tomato plant. Is there a way to detect it early enough to prevent everything from being infected?

Hi High,

Ive been trying to get back here!

I still say your plants look perfectly healthy to me! And from everything I read the day I researched aster yellows, I dont see anything about your plants that would make me think they have it. 99.9% of your buds and flowers look just fine, and its possible that the problem you have with those couple flowers was caused by an insect munching on the bud as it was beginning to form or something like that. And it might not even be insectsit might just be nature! Things happen when youre dealing with green growin things that we cant always explain. I always have a few weird looking flowers on my echinacea, but as long as the foliage and the overall plant looks ok, I just figure thats the way of the world.

If I were going to recommend one more thing to actually do, Id go back to my original recommendation and say to lay the hose at the base of just one plant, set it on just barely a trickle, and leave it lay there for an hour. Im still guessing that your particular clay is pretty impermeable, and the water just isnt getting down as deep as it needs to. To be really effective, the water needs to be getting into the soil thats below the deepest roots. Once you get the really deep soil wet, itll last a long time and your regular surface watering should be sufficient. By trying it on just one plant, youll be able to compare it to the others that werent "treated," and youll be able to see how much difference there is.

But even if you decide to not do that, your plants really do look good! You need to stop worrying and start enjoying them, or youre going to find theyre done blooming and youve never really just stood there and admired them. If the couple distorted blooms prevent you from just enjoying them, cut them off.

Its time to start enjoying your success,
Skybird
:-)

Okay, Bonnie, I'm going to agree with Skybird now that she's gotten out there and committed herself, taken responsibility and all that.

Viruses infect plants and cause visible changes. I think that's what has caused these deviants. Notice that the flower has a few bug bites they spread viruses with all their genetic confusion.

I'm always striving for perfection and sometimes it actually jumps up and bites me on the nose. Not sure what I've done right or wrong or if it is just Mother Nature or God blessing my efforts or the plant's progress. Most of the time, well, I fall short, the plants fall short such is life.

Things may have drifted a bit off in your garden this year. May have been the mulch, new soil, weather, . . . something. Don't worry, be happy.

my 2 cents . . .

digitS'