peonies lilies dianthus barbatus phlox lychnis arkwrightii pulmonarias Oenothera Itea virginiana Fothergilla Japanese irises hellebores Euphorbias Clematis Betty Corning Filipendula ulmaria Aurea Aster Honeysong Pink - once you get an aster established... hostas we had a variable winter last yr with many weeks w cold weather and almost no snow cover - very hard on the plants. I lost a few things and some failed to bloom this spring - these were well established plants. In my soil the better the drainage the better the plant health. I've taken to slightly raising each plant when I put it in - they sink down as they settle but at least that first yr it improves the drainage.

Buff~What a super little Mousie you have! I'm jealous. I'm adding Tea & Crumpets to my wish list. Medusa is my favorite mini. I don't find it to be difficult at all. EO~ Which hosta is in the bottom picture? Very pretty! Janet~ You Cherish is gorgeous. I've been wanting that one for a while. Jen/aka _margo~What is Grand Pri***? Prize? val1~ I like your Hope and Cherish. Are they easy to grow? There are so many nice ones above, it's hard to keep them straight. I hope more people keep posting their minis! Caliloo~ I took Popo off my order at the last minute. Sorry that I did. Wendyb~ Do Shiney Penny and Crepe Soul grow well? I'll put them on my list too. I think I had better not keep watching this thread. Too much temptation. ~Bunnycat

antss: I don't think so; the waterline is on the bottom (I found it easily). What I am describing is on the side wall of the freezer. Said wall -- in a typical installation -- goes nearly flush against the wall opening so one wouldn't have a chance really routing anything through there. Certainly not even a tiny waterline. I even called Sub-zero and the whatever technician they put me in touch with didn't know what I was talking about. The freezer's working just fine so not too worried about it, just surprised that there was no mention of this in the installation literature nor was there any warning/explanation/indication posted next to it. I will have to take the freezer out temporarily a few weeks from now when I install my cabinetry above and around and I will snap a photo of this diabolical device at that time so we can have something to look at in future discussions.

"Hi Anthem, and Happy 4th!" Same to you. "You don't know how much money I have. I have a lot." Good for you. All relative I guess. Glad you have a lot, buf if you have a lot, why do you fret over supporting other people ? If you have a "lot" why don't you give away most of it to the beggars with sores that seem to be so important to you ? Why are you asking others to forgo their desires when you yourself have "a lot" ? "You don't know what kind of house I can afford." You are correct. Nor did I ask or care to really know. "Maybe nicer than yours!" To each their own. Again subjective, but I seriously doubt it. "My reasoning has nothing to do with "libertarian" principles." Good. "You don't sound like a libertarian BTW you sound like a Republican" OK. . . So what difference does what I sound like ? I never said I was a libertarian, democrat, or Republican. What relevance does my political leanings have ? "...if only these terms weren't so boring and narrow. I'm an unaffiliated voter myself." Good for you, but I fail to see why that has any relevance or why you it enters this discussion. "I think you lack imagination. I don't believe humans cause global warming but I do believe in finite resources." Finite resources, yes. Humans don't cause global warming ? You're kidding right ? Maybe not directly but absolutely indirectly. Without humans, there wouldn't be anywhere near the carbon footprint that we have now. "My objection to the OPs post wasn't actually related to his elaborate (and evidently dysfunctional) wiring scheme, but to his personal environmental footprint. Try really hard to imagine the moment when technology development stops keeping up with rampant overconsumption of non-replenishable resources." rileysmom, your stated immoral objections have been noted before. It appears that anyone who spends (or apparently capable of spending) more than what you think is a reasonable amount is immoral - and that you feel the need to tell others that their are needy people in the world. I'm not sure it has to do with environmental footprint either as you don't really know his environmental/carbon foot print and/or otherwise. But seriously I don't see your concern for environmental footprint as you don't mention it anywhere. You started off as you did before over the fact that someone else spent more than what YOU consider acceptable and called it immoral. Here, let me refresh your memory "I was wondering: does anyone else think the OPs house is practically immoral? If you have enough money for 11 refrigerators (just had to have each and every one of them, huh?)". . . . Now its environmental ? "If he'd added a paragraph or so about using ICF construction (do you know what that is?) I'm quite familiar with ICF. ICF works really well for "simpler" houses and is a nightmare with more complex houses. Complex houses might be immoral to you, so that would preclude that issue for you though, right? Besides there are quite a few diverging opinions on using concrete and by extension ICF. While less wood is used, it isn't any more energy efficient than a well built/insulated house. I think the discussion of "green" revolves more around energy efficiency than the actual material being used. It's just that people choose to use insulated concrete forms because its cheaper to attain the same level of energy efficiency than its counterpart - but again with significant drawbacks (especially when it comes to flexibility or automation, which the original poster did do (or attempt to do)). "low VOC finishes" low-voc is definitely human healthier, but it remains to be seen if it has any real relevance to environmentally healthier. The majority of low or no voc paint has enough enviro-unfriendly ingredients that no matter what you do it isn't environmentally better. It's just less voc's being emitted into the household. "or even...energy star appliances" I don't know his appliances or items, but usually anyone who is into automation is going to have fairly high-end appliances which almost certainly are "energy star" appliances. By the way, energy star is a MINIMUM standard. It's such a poor standard that I am not even going to get into it. It's meant to establish a minimum standard so that the average consume shopping for a refrigerator isn't going to be ripped off by an energy inefficient refrigerator. Most anyone who spends big bucks on autmation is going to be buying in the subzero, viking, GE monogram, Liebherr type of level which are all well beyond energy star minimum ratings.. . . "for all 11 refrigerators and 4 dishwashers and maybe 2 laundry rooms) I'm sure his megamansion wouldn't have chapped me quite so badly." And that gets back to the basic question - Why does someone doing beyond YOUR levels dictate them being immoral ? People can spend what they want. If you haven't walked a day in their shoes - why are you calling them immoral for building their house ? Hey, you only need one toilet in a house. How many do you have ? Is it immoral for you to put more than one in your house ? It's all relative depending upon where you are coming from. I just don't get where you think everyone who does a bit more than you, or spends more than you, or is less energy efficient as you is "immoral". "Note this has nothing to do with how much it cost to build and how much it is appraised for now." Not what you said earlier. Should I refresh your memory again ? "Well, I do get a laugh out of something I read somewhere at some time...maybe The Economist? predicting that these whopping huge houses eventually will all be subdivided when the gated communities become the gated slums. Probably this subconscious thought prompted my comment about the poor and downtrodden." I really doubt it in our lifetimes or the next. Most of these won't last beyond a generation or two. And even then, it gets much more complicated with property lines. You're more likely to see teardowns than you will of change of use. The reason you see "mansions" (true sense of the word) in the past being used for multi-tenant is in high-density areas. You don't see today's megamansions in high-density areas. you might call them high-density, but even if everyone bred like rabbits and doubled the current population - it wouldn't change suburban america. Perhaps if you increased the population 10 fold, but we're talking many more generations beyond now.