I think SdPN has one of the all-time loveliest blooms. I wanted to grow it in the same area as Rosette Delizy and Mons. Tillier (Archduke Joseph). But it won't live here. I've tried three times, and it stubbornly refuses to grow for me. Now, I'd not paid attention, but now I know it is a child of Marechal Niel, I understand why it won't grow here. It doesn't like my climate or my conditions. None of those heat-seeking yaller Tea-Noisettes do, and apparently the curse is carried to the second generation. But, Sherry, YOU have heat. It should LOVE your garden! Jeri

Dupont resisted throwing new basal growths years ago in the older beds at The Huntington. It flowered OK, with fairly sparse foliage and thick, old wood. I don't remember much fragrance from it but do remember the flowers blowing pretty quickly. Beaute also blew very quickly in my Newhall garden. It was pretty and when you could catch it in cooler weather so you'd actually get to SEE a fresh bloom, it was gorgeous. It had some fragrance, but it wasn't very strong. Diseases weren't that great an issue in that garden, and I didn't spray, so they didn't have that issue to contend with. I collected and grew as many Pernetiana types as possible because in those years, only Vintage offered them, and only sporadically. I always felt as though they were the real endangered types, and most can be spectacular...in the right climates. Kim

Thanks so much for the eloquent and persuasive explanations, Kim and Jeri. The difficulty of pushing against gravity totally makes sense, particularly given how it gets exponentially harder to maintain a plank after 30 seconds on my part and roses have substantially longer "limbs". Hafta mention though that my sap is flowing freely under such conditions, or at least something is dripping from my forehead. Sounds like I need to rethink the support system for MIP or frankly (sigh) move her. I hate moving roses, being essentially lazy and trying other strategies to "make do" like stretching out her arms horizontally to visit her buddy Aloha on a neighboring shepherd's hook, and reciprocating the favor in return. I can think of a good spot about 6 feet away for MIP, but I cringe to think of her root system after 8 years not to mention the bloodletting involved even after pruning her down in the spring. Still in that new spot she could drape herself over the top of the extensively horizontal and floppy Madame Alfred Carriere and they could do their languid "I'm ready for my closeup, dahling" poses together. Sort of like Joan Crawford and Bette Davis, but with more teeth. Interesting that our disease pressures are quite reversed, Jeri. We never get rust, and mildew only happens for about a week in the fall on a few roses if at all. Blackspot is just a way of life though not as bad as on the east coast because we're dryer. MIP is better than average for BS resistance I'd say. It's funny that the east coast is the home of blackspot and the west coast is mildew central. You'd think that proximity to large bodies of water would have similar effects, but weather is much more complicated than that. The largest bodies of water I contend with are the pools of sweat (or blood) I accumulate over a day in the garden. Yep, planning to accumulate plenty of both for moving MIP. All the more reason you're smarter than I am boncrow for asking BEFORE you plant. Gotta try that some day (smile). Cynthia

Thank you so much, Lisa and Dr. Manners. I think the question has been answered definitively by Dr. Manners and Cydney at Rose Petals. I did put in a new order for another SdPN and Cyd is going to pick a blooming one to be sure, an Arcadia Louisiana Tea, a Tamalpais Tea, and Anna Jung. I was afraid to ask her for more recommendations, for fear of what would happen. I brought up the heat, and she said she could delay shipping, but with the three day air service, I just went for next Monday shipping. It's hot in Florida and it's hot here, so it will probably be fine. I'll pot them in 2 gal pots to stay in my warm alcove over the winter while they size up. I'm also getting a Suzanne and Raubritter from High Country Roses this week too, so wish me luck. Thank you all for your help.