Did anyone else receive the Lee Valley Tools Christmas catalog??? I received it a coupla days ago. It has all kinds of gifts for the gardener and also, I was impressed with how many unusual gifts it has! For instance, a book on hand-shadow figures. Since aviation is what I do for a living, another that caught my eye was a book on making paper airplanes. These might be neat gift ideas for kids.

Paula

I got Pinetree yesterday and they still have good prices. I started through it last night and began to feel a little sleepy. I looked up and it was almost 3AM. I think I'll start earlier tonight. LOL

Paula,

I haven't received the Lee Valley catalog and that's a good thing because I'm sure I'd find something there I "need'.

Carol, I ordered from Pinetree right after they updated their website a couple of weeks ago, and then the catalog arrived about the same time my order did. I've been trying to avoid looking at the catalog for fear I'll find something I didn't see online.

I do love catalog season and I, too, am guilty of sitting up too late at night looking at them. I can't sleep in to make up for it either because the roosters wake me up at the same time every morning. Apparently they could care less if I was up late the night before...they're still going to crow at their usual time.

Dawn

I received the Lee Valley catalog, lots of ice stuff.

So far, Pinetree is all I have received.

I will not be ordering much this year! (I have to keep repeating that over and over).

Dawn now you went and done it. I didn't know about peppergal. I had to go over and check the site out. Browsed through a few pages of varieties and found a few I'm very tempted to order. I managed to leave with only requesting a catalog. But not sure how long I will be able to resist the temptation now.

I got a couple more catalogs yesterday. Can't remember what. Another HPS came Thursday along with another of the Schumway companies. I see the TT site is updated so sure their catalog is on the way. Unless it is a favorite I just pile them on the pile to read later. I'm over ten now. That is usually where I quit counting.

After 2 years ago when I waited for some later catalogs and then many of the early ones was out of items I wanted. I now order as they arrive. And last year by the time the later sites updated I was done. Also after the Holidays is many times a lot busier for me at work. I keep telling myself I'm about done now. Really have most of the seeds I need for next year and a few more. But sure Dawn and Carol will list a site to tempt me with that has something I can't resist.LOL. Jay

Busy1, I love Lee Valley. Their tools are very high quality. I like all the kitchen tools and gadgets too.

Glenda, OK, you just keep repeating phrase that over and over and maybe it will work for you. It doesn't work for me.

Jay, Ooops. Sorry. I was sure you knew about Peppergal. My bad. However, you introduced me to Skyfire last year, so I'm just returning the favor. Either you or I need to mention the New Mexico Chile Pepper Institute, too, at least once a month for the benefit of those who haven't heard of it before.

At our house four arrived today, but one of them was a duplicate, so really it is only three. One was HPS (www.hpsseed.com), which Jay and I both receive at least 2 or 3 times a year. The second was Stokes (www.stokeseeds.com) and I haven't had a chance to look at it yet, but I know they have something I want in there because I saw it on their website last week . The third is from Seeds From Italy (www.growitalian.com), my favorite little seed company that imports seeds directly from Franchi Simenti of Italy. I have found some amazing beans and melons through Seeds From Italy. Oddly, I haven't tried their tomatoes yet, but I have one (Scatalone) to try this year. It isn't that the Italian tomatoes don't look wonderful, but just that I always have such a long "waiting list" of tomatoes I want to grow.

With three new catalogs, I need to find some serious catalog reading time, but it won't be today!

Dawn

Yea!! More catalogs to order! I love seed catalogs. I have been coasting so far on the two I have gotten my Thompson Morgan and an old Johnny's select seeds. I have ordered everyone mentioned here. I was confused before as to what I want to grow, now even more so! And I am not complaining! :)

It is a good kind of confusion.

The catalog of the day is....

Botanical Interests, which I've linked below.

This company has long been one of our favorite seed companies because their seeds are high-quality, and their seed packets are both beautiful (watercolor-style illustrations) and very information. (They even print info INSIDE the seed packs.) Until last year, they didn't even have a catalog. I usually found their seeds at a handful of retailers in Dallas-Fort Worth or at a couple of online retailers.

Their first catalog last year was lovely, but small. This year's catalog is much larger, and still quite lovely. This year's expanded catalog includes articles on organic garden design, recipes from top chefs, tips for successfully starting seeds, and articles on other subjects, including bees, growing your own greens, and creating beautiful containers.

I'll keep posting the names of catalogs, and a description of them, as they arrive, and hope others will do the same. It is our "duty" to introduce other gardeners to all the delightful garden "eye candy" to be found in the many catalogs we receive.

Dawn

Here is a link that might be useful: Botanical Interests

Four today. Two Vermont Bean and two Totally Tomatoes. Guess they want to make sure at least one of makes it.

Carol they have the Goliath Collection offer in the catalog. One packet of each tomato and pepper variety in the Goliath series. 14 in all I think for $30.50. I haven't looked through them except to see if they had the Goliath collection. I got them out of the mailbox and then headed over to help at the annual Quiz bowl meet. Just got home. Will do chores then take a gander through and window shop. No buying for me. LOL. Jay

I got Lee Valley Tools about a week ago - today I received Totally Tomatoes and Vermont Beans. Seed catalogs are addictive you know.......can't get too many and I keep them till the new ones come the next season. They keep me semi-sane in the winter months, and my DH hates to see them in the mail because he knows it means "seed fever".

Of course it means 'seed fever'. Is there anything wrong with that? (smiling as I type that)

Dawn

I received Totally Tomatoes and Vermont Bean Seed today. While viewing TT, I noticed many listings specifically listed as Hybrid and others not, so I called and sure enough anything in their catalogue not specifically listed as Hybrid is Open Pollinated.

Keith

I think Totally Tomatoes has everything that I am going to need. They have now put the Goliath Collection on the website so I think that Collection plus a pack of Pablano seeds is really all I'm going to need. Need, you got that right? Need!

I think I will wait for the catalog to get here though.

Some people like to sit in the easy chair and read a long-awaited novel, or watch a riveting movie. Me - I curl up in my big ole overstuffed chair (with ottoman), a cat on each arm rest, one on my lap and another on the ottoman, and read my seed magazines. Ah.........total luxury! They are so dog-eared by the time spring gets here, that the print is barely legible, but I still have catalogs going back 10 years. Every time I think about throwing them out, I hesitate - these are like old friends! I might sorely miss them or need to look up something, how could I possibly toss them?

Okay, one more thing to add. I went to the Baker Creek website to look thru their 2010 list since 2011 is not up yet, and one thing I noticed is that they do not include information as to whether the plant is determinate or indeterminate, or semi- or dwarf (I don't actually think they have any dwarf heirlooms). I know that most of the paste types are indet. and most all of you experienced growers here probably know which varieties are det or indet, etc., but I don't know all of them yet, and I'm wondering if I should inquire of Baker Creek about. This is important info for me since I grow in containers. Will the catalog include this info or not? It's terribly time consuming to look them all up one by one in another window on the computer, going back and forth between them. Any suggestions? Is this not really a valid complaint? All of the other sites I've come across list this information.

Susan

Susan,

BC doesn't label their tomato plants Indeterminate, Determinate, Semi-Det. or Semi-Indet. or Int. Short Internode but they certainly are not the only ones who don't. Is it a valid complain? IMHO, no, it is not.

Some tomato varieties are not easily classified and sometimes you'll see the same variety described as Determinate, Semi-Indeterminate or Indeterminate at three separate seed companies. Thus, the data is not always useful even when it is provided. In some varieties, with Rutgers being one of them, you can have separate Det. and Int. versions of the same variety.

There can be a lot of variability in plant size with some varieties, especially in different climates. Usually, the labeling inconsistency is seen more in open-pollinated varieties than in hybrids and I think that occurs because people selling hybrid seed generally just use whatever info is supplied by the breeder or seed wholesaler but with OPs, they have to figure it out for themselves.

DTM info as given for the different varieties isn't engraved in stone either. I see a great deal of variation in maturity times here, no matter what a seed catalog or seed packet says.

There are lots of determinate paste types, by the way, and this includes some semi-determinates. Some of the Determinate or Semi-Determinate paste tomato varieties I can think of include the following: Heidi, Martino's Roma, Principe Borghese, La Rossa, Ethiopia Roi Humbert, Viva Italia, Roma, Tolli Roma, Wuhib, Chico III, Halley 3155, Roma, Oroma, Golden Roma, Window Box Roma, LaRoma III, LaRoma, Cream Sausage, Saucy, Mexican Paste, Kiev, Nova, Banana Legs, Bellstar, Napoli, San Marzano, Veepro, Incas, Doucet's Plum Producer Q1121, Doucet's Plum Red Q200RV, Tolli Roma, Margherita, Tondino di Manduria, and Macero Roma. I've grown about a dozen of the above types, and I'm sure there's plenty of other Det. paste types that I haven't thought of.

We sometimes have the same confusion in the tomato world with leaf types. We tend to think of all tomato varieties as being either Potato Leaf or Regular Leaf, but there's the group with Rugose foliage as well, and some varieties have leaves that look kind of like an RL and kind of like a PL but not exactly like either one. Furthermore, with OPs, there sometimes is a Regular Leaf and a Potato Leaf version of one variety, and then there is the extra confusion that arises from plants that have the wilty gene which can make foliage look sort of longer and stringier than usual. Just to make it even more confusing, the first few true leaves on some seedlings do not look just like that variety's more mature foliage will look.

We humans like to classify everything into groups, but some plants defy easy classification.

Dawn

Then there is Opalka which is a great tomato but the vine is 'wimpy'. That is the only way I know to describe it, just wimpy, is that what you mean by stringier.

I think Rugose type is the prettiest plant, but I haven't found one with a tomato that I though was outstanding. Is there one?

I think the Husky series have Rugose leaves, Carole, and they are considered Dwarf tomatoes. It seems I have read of a few more at Tatiana's website but I don't recall their names right offhand. But Rugose leaves can include either Regular Leaf or Potato Leaf foliage, just crinkly and wrinkly, or accordion-like as some people describe them. I believe, and don't get me wrong cuz I am new at this and I don't want to appear to be presumptuous since I am totally new at this, Rugose foliage is a characteristic of Dwarf Tomatoes. Lime Green Salad is another dwarf with Rugose foliage and I think you grew that one, didn't you, altho the flavor was kinda bad if I remember correctly. I think Dawn also grew New Big Dwarf.

Craig LeHoullier describes them as this:

"Dwarf tomatoes are distinct in having a very thick, stout central stem and crinkly dark green foliage - known as "rugose". They behave as indeterminate varieties in that they fruit throughout the season, as distinguished from determinates, which tend to ripen their crop within a short period of time. Determinates also have normal thickness central stems, are highly branched, with blossom clusters at the end of the branches. Dwarfs are more like very short indeterminates - by the end of the season, they are typically no more than 3-4 feet tall, depending upon the particular variety."

That's the main reason I signed up at TV in order to follow the Dwarf Tomato Project that Craig is heading up in the US. There is another lady heading up the grow outs in Australia, and maybe a couple others in different locations, but many seeds have been shared with people all over the states and other places to test and grow out these dwarf tomatoes. I'm interested because these are and will be more suited to container growing. There are quite a few in the works, including the Seven Dwarfs series named Sleepy, Sneezy, Happy, etc.

I wonder what they classify the foliage of Silvery Fir Tree as.....wimpy foliage, too? Shouldn't we steer clear of this type of foliage in Oklahoma? Seems like it wouldn't give good enough coverage for tomatoes to avoid sunburn.

Well, Dawn, I guess that clinched the deal with Baker Creek since I don't know how any of those tomato varieties will grow in containers. I have 3 20-30 gallon pots and will probably add 2 or 3 more 20 gal. grow bags next year, for accommodating a few indeterminates like Black Cherry and Sungold, but it would kind of be nice to know what I could possibly expect. Probably not a big deal for most folks, but kind of a big deal to me.

Susan

Carol, Yes, that's what I meant by stringier....those poor wispy leaves look like someone grabbed hold of them and stretched them out like they were made of Silly Putty.

It is unfortunate that the plants with rugose foliage do not produce tomatoes with better flavor, but there's a couple of good ones.

New Big Dwarf is a 2 to 2.5' tall plant with rugose foliage that produces a nice crop of tasty pink and somewhat large tomatoes.

Livingston's Dwarf Stone is a determinate with rugose foliage that produces round, smooth scarlet red, very meaty tomatoes with good flavor. It is one of the most drought tolerant tomatoes I've ever grown.

I've grown the entire Husky line and while the plants look pretty, the fruit is not that great. They all have very thick skin which I believe is why they never caught on with American gardeners. I do grow Husky Red Cherry but only for dehydrating as the thick skin is irrelevent once the toms are dried.

Susan, Silvery Fir Tree is an RL, albeit one whose foliage looks like it is trying to morph into carrot foliage. I don't care for the flavor of the fruit myself, but taste is a very subjective thing.

I've grown wispy-foliage plants here and haven't really had sunscald issues with the fruit except in August of drought years like 2003, 2005, 2006, and 2008.

Some of BC's plants are determinates even though they don't always make it clear, and when they are, it usually is mentioned in some way although they may not use the word 'determinate'. Some of their descriptions will say "great for containers" or "good for patio gardens" which seems to be their general way of saying that those are smaller plants which makes me think they're likely Determinate ones.

Dawn

Ok now you all did it!! I knew better than to click on this post. I knew I'd see catalogs I hadn't got yet or just plain haven't even ordered. So, yes I did.......I went and ordered two more catalogs. lol
The only ones I've gotten so far is TT and another one (can't remember the name off hand). And thus, the seed dreaming and scheming begins!! I even have to fight my 12 year old son on who gets to look through the catalog first. I think he's starting early!! But that's ok, gives us something in common to talk about. And boy does he ever love to talk about all the different varieties of things. He knows more at 12 than I knew just 10 years ago, lol.
Anyway, I think I agree with Carol and will order some seed from TT for tomatoes and peppers.

Melissa

p.s. I'm dreaming of a tiller for Hanukkah!! lol

Came across this website and thought I would share.

Lots and lots to look thru and not sure how reliable they are.

Some have free catalogs and some are just websites.

Here is a link that might be useful: Cyndi's Catalog of Garden Catalogs