Ron-

A lot of the blue/silver cyads are hard to come by and/or pricey. Here are some other cycads that come off the top of my head as silver/blue:

Cycas sp. silver
E. trispinosus
Macrozamia macdonnellii

A lot of cycads are on CITES and getting them is a difficult ordeal.

I like Dioon edule. It has a nice bluish-green color and is very robust.

Thanks for the input.

The C. cairnsiana arrived bareroot. It didn't have many leaves on it, but the caudex was just slightly smaller than a baseball and the roots were large and healthy looking. I put it in a 10-gallon pot where it will stay for a few years.

Instead of the other two, I opted for the Encephalartos longifolius Jourbertina. It will arrive barerooted too. It was originally in a 3-gallon pot.

I'll think about the other two next year. In the meantime, we'll see how we do with the two I got.

-Ron-

What a difference a little over five months makes.

Uh, I went kind of nuts in the cycad department. Since I last posted this, I've collected slightly over two dozen different cycad seedlings. Everything from brand, spanking-new to about two-inch caudexes. I've been sort of opportunistic in my purchases. Some things I got off eBay, some things I got from my Cactus & Succulent Club meetings, some things I got off the Internet that were either on sale or got winter cold-leaf damage and were reduced. So, I didn't spend quite as much as one might think. I probably averaged $35 per plant.

Six of the largest ones I've already planted out in the ground and they seem to be doing fine. That was about five months ago. I used about a third each palm mix, perlite, and native soil. I think they were the C. thouarsii, E. altensteinii, E. longifolius, E. hildebrandtii, E. natalensis, and one other that I can't remember off-hand.

Some of the others that I have planted in pots are E. horridus, E. lehmannii, E. eugene-maraisii, E. middelburgensis, E. cerinus, E. dyerianus, some Dioons, some Ceratozamias, C. petraea, C. couttsiana, C. circinalis, E. whitelockii and some Macrozamias.

My steep hillside has some sheltered areas shaded by Eucalyptus and Pepper trees and other areas that are quite sunny (and hot in Summer).

My biggest concern are those that like shade and/or more water.

Most of my yard is dry and xeric in summer but I do have a few areas that are shadier and where I have planted things that require more water.

Any suggestions on what should go where?

Thank you.

-Ron-

What, and no Lepidozamia peroffskyana?!? (Just kidding, sort of.) It's the only cycad I thought I should probably get. But maybe not to your blue/arid taste? It's green and more delicate looking. Not that I know anything about cycads... I like it that you went nuts about something new. Plants are funny like that, how they can affect us. Congratulations on the new collection, may it thrive.

P.S. Sometimes I stick my head in the Cactus & Succulent room to look for you, but don't see ya. I'm over in the Bromeliad room at the same time.

I want to buy a Macrozamia Moorei this summer. Where can I get one with a little size without breaking the bank.

Kim,

For C&S I hang out at www.thegardenforums.org in the C&S section. Most of the old GW heavy duty posters have moved there.

You should try Balboa Park on the second Saturday of the month. That's when they have the C&S meetings (and table sales).

Orchiddude, I'm fortunate in that I live in a suburb of San Diego, so I got my M moorei for $65 and it's a fair-sized one at that (at Jungle Music Palms & Cycads) which is local. They have an Internet site though, so you might want to check there.

-Ron-

Ron, I'm sure that you know that cycad security has become an issue in your area. Give some thought to how you can site those specimens to prevent cycad-jackers from making off with them in future years as they put on size.

Thanks fouquieria, I will check it out. I think the last time I emailed them, the owner emailed me back, acted like he could have cared less. I will give it another look.

Try Jurassic garden for a great variety and nice specimens. Cycads are wonderful, and easy in the right conditions.

I have a Macrozamia moorei that I paid big bucks for but it is beautiful and has been growing furiously since recovering from transplant shock this summer. E horridus is a very slow grower, I would keep it in a pot to better control moisture, temp and light, it may grow more quickly that way while young.

C thouarsii will get huge, so make sure you give it plenty of room. C rumphii is very similar. Both can give up to 3 growth flushes a year in the right conditions.

All cycads love high nitro fertilizers.

The Encephalartos species from South Africa may be better off with a dry-ish winter dormancy, which better imitates their native lands. Many Cycas species are from more tropical climates and can take warmth and moisture year round

Hi Ron, this was the first time I saw this thread, I just started answering questions here again about a month ago. Boy, lots of questions, this could take an hour. For the short version we will go with colors of plants. In your xeric and/or hot situation, blue plants are usually blue for a reason. They produce waxes on the leaves to reflect sun and heat. The blues are the best, but this includes the eugene-maraisii complex, blue cycas, as well as the usual California typicals like horridus, etc. Your larger dark greens will be harder to deal with if it is really that hot. Most would be ebst in your shade situation, as well as most ceratozamias. As far as finding this stuff, you are in the middle of the most dense area for special cycad nurseries in the US. You got Phil, Maurice, George,Ironmongers, Sternbergs,and then you have large places like Rancho. Sure I have 200 species of cycads but I couldn't send them to you anyway (in California from Florida). If you like to start things from seeds and really go crazy at a cheap price, the seed bank for the Cycad Society usually has about 40 to 60 species of seeds available each year. I know lots of people who had 100 species of plants in less than 3 years and it all came from the seed bank. Have fun with cycads. It isn't hard to go crazy. after my first year of figuring out I wanted to gorw them, by the next year I had 100 species. That was even before the internet and things were harder to find.

Have you ever tried Robert Chumley in Plant City, Florida. The guy is amazing. I bought $100 worth of Cycad and Dioon and he sent me over $100 worth of extras. The Tait/Guiz popped seeds he sent are growing like crazy, the Wailiak was about a softball caudex when he told me it was tennis ball size.

So where do we find Robert Chumley website?

chumleycycads.com
I do want to tell you thou, if you order from him, do not go thru the web site on line ordering. Instead, you should call him and talk to him as not only will it speed up your order tremendously, but he is an absolute Encylopedia of knowledge about Cycads & Dioons. And an absolute joy to speak with.
Tell him Wes in Topeka, Kansas sent you.

Thank you Wes. I think I will give him a call and see.

I don't think Bob would be able to legally help Ron, because he would have to be specialy certified for California shipping. He would be able to help orchid though, because he is in Alabama. I'm curious wannabe, you are in Kansas, that would mean your shipment, to be legal would have had to be accompanied with stamps showing the special fire ant certification on the paperwork. The plants have to be specially treated for shipping out of the fire ant area and then certified. Was this included?

I am lost, whos Bob, and Ron, my name is Rob, I do live in AL with orchids but whats that have to do with Ca? :-)

Ron is fouquieria, who asked the original question on this thread (who is from California) and the Bob is Bob Chumley, the person who was just suggested about cycads, who will tell you outright that he does not agree with the laws on shipping plants. It bothers people like me because I ship legally and have taken the extra time and cost to do it right with the proper inspections and carry all the paperwork I need, where other people ignore the laws and people from other states don't care whether they get legal shipments or not as long as they get the plants they want. I'm not saying this is the case here. For that matter most people on this forum don't have any understanding at all on what is required for shipping plants out of Florida, and if a person who ships to you from here doesn't bother to tell someone what the rules are (that they are ignoring)the person getting the plants has no idea they are getting illegal shipments.

Don't take this personal, or think I am flameing...
But I, as a customer, really don't care if the shipment has the correct paperwork. As long as I get a good plant for half the money that most people charge.
Does the "stamp" cost Bob money to have inspected? If so, then he would have to pass that cost onto his customer. Maybe thats how he can sell cheaper than anybody else. And thats just fine with me as a customer.
Again, I get the exact same Cycad or Dioon for half the price because he doesn't have the correct paperwork.....So, I got a great plant for half the price.

Whether someone agrees with the agricultural import/export rules or not they are in place for valid concerns.
Maybe I'm old fashioned in my beliefs...... Conservation of Cycad species is also the responsibility
to legally procure them. Non Inspected plants can introduce Asian Scale, etc. into new areas.

I enjoy finding a bargain but I am not going to risk the rest of my Cycad collection to save a dollor or two......

Ok, I see now.

I really think this permit shi* is over rated myself. I mean, I tried to order some orchids from Australia once and found out that I had to get an import permit along with all kinds of paperwork, plus the time, cost, etc......... it gave me such a headache, I said the hell with it. Who knows. I kinda go with what Mr. Kansas said, as a customer I am not worried about the behind the scenes problems, I just want the plant, give it a good home and move on to the next project. :-)

Orchidude,

I haven't had an extra $100.00 to spend on plants in,well,..........ever :-)

I am trying a small back yard nursery here in the Midwest, have one more inspection to be certified for interstate sales, I can agree with you about the technicalities,but feel it the the responsible ( and legal ) thing to do if I am representing myself as a commercial enity.

These laws are in place to protect the Buyers and the local enviroment, some recent revisions are making it easier but it still seems to be a question of how many hoops to jump through....

I agree JW.

Sure, being legitimate costs extra money and time. I won't take what you have said personally because everyone has their own set of rules and has to live with themselves. It is not up to me to judge anyone, but I do feel it is important to educate people on the right way of doing things.(for those who truly don't know)
When you deal with cycads, you have to deal with many things and figure where you stand with many types of laws. They are all on the endangered species list. I have to deal with local paperwork, CITES paperwork, and other things. People are poaching old plants from the wild. Many times they sell the plants to people who know they are poached, but they are getting a good price on the plants so they don't care. This just encourages more people to poach. If people didn't buy poached plants, then it wouldn't happen as often. People are stealing plants out of people's landscapes. They sell them to people who want a good deal and don't care if the plants are stolen. For that matter, many things are stolen each year and sold to people who want a good deal and don't care where the items come from. It is people who buy things that are stolen that keep the theft trade in business.
People who care more about saving money, or getting a good deal than buying something stolen, or poached have to live with themselves. I know illegal USDA shipments may not be as bad of a crime as these other things, but I try to be the best person I can be, and that includes trying to obey the laws we are given. I know I will be judged some day and even though I am not perfect, I do the best that I can.

I guess I will have to continue to live with myself then. I know there is a problem with people digging up wild palms and cycads, but when you have a guy that is as reputable as Robert Chumley and has been mentioned in many articles in many magazines, I'll trust him rather than a guy off ebay.
I also have a little bit of a problem with a buisness person in the same line of business, putting down another reputable dealer. Kinda makes it sound like sour grapes. Are you sure it's not a matter of a guy coming on here and speaking well of a competitor and advising others to buy from him, and it's not really a matter of CITES and Fire Ant inspections?????? Just a thought.

OP ~ Sorry to have sidetracked your topic..............

Wes ~ I am the one responsible for dragging this out a bit, I feel people can make intelligent choices by having all the facts on hand.
This is a subject that people should be made aware of. This has caused peoples' plants to be seized along with heavy fines.
I have no idea, or recall that I have implied knowledge of how Mr. Chumley runs his business, I am glad you had a good experience in your dealings and that in itself is worth mentioning.

yes, in a way, it could be a little sour grapes, but mainly just trying to inform. I DO have a problem when people do business illegally because I try to do things correctly and in some cases, it costs me for it. You would think that a person who does the right thing should prosper and people who do the wrong things should not, but this would be in a perfect world, so in this way, you are correct. I have been helping people for so long that I'm used to giving advice and trying to steer people in the right direction, and maybe on this forum, I have gone too far. It may be a curse after all these years, but I know just about every cycad dealer in the US, and most of them in the world. I know the good things about each dealer and the bad things as well. I can say a lot of good things about Bob, but I also know the bad things. Because I am not trusted here, I won't list the bad or the good, but if someone were to ask me privately about any dealer, I can at least give a good description of what they should expect. I seem to be one of the people that others will call me on the phone or write to me and ask about where to find things,or how much something should cost, and many times, they tell me when they get ripped off, or when they buy plants that were damaged when they buy them and then I have to tell them how to treat their damaged plants. People ask me if something they were offered is a good price or not, or they already paid too much for a plant. I probably get 5 inquiries each week and after all these years I have heard and seen a lot. I know the people who brought Asian scale to the US and who distributed it to most of the US. I can tell you who has it in their nurseries and who continues to ship plants with the scale on them and don't care where they spread it. Knowing who will lie about what species they are selling, or who will illegally import seeds and plants is a burdoning responsibility that I deal with. But at least, when someone wants me to truthfully give them advise, I am able to do so. I will try not to give advise to someone who does not want it. If anyone wants to blistfully believe what others have told them to be the truth without checking it out for themselves that is up to them. Chances are USDA or Federal Fish and Wildlife won't be beating down your door in their black outfits like they did to about 20 people about 5 years ago,when they bought things without checking into the details, but I would bet a few of those people would have liked to have been informed prior to them buying seeds and plants. This will be the last I write on this subject, I've said way too much already.

I guess what I was saying is that Robert Chumley in particular is a very reputable guy. All those things you said are true, but about others in the business. But for my money, Robert Chumley is the best. He sells top notch Cycad and Dioons that are healthy and do not have problems, for about half of what others sell for and he adds many extras. If the only problem with Mr. Chumley is that he doesn't include a "Fire Ant" certificate, I'll trust him.

Hey wannabe,

I find it interesting that you are so uncaring about the law in this situation, but so strict about it when you made this comment,

"BTW, not trying to be rude so please do not take offense to this, but if you planted it in April, and if you did what is the law, and called for locates, why would you plant it so close to a utility cable?"

The way I look at it, the law is the law, and it's not okay to ignore ones that benefit a person for a particular reason. Those agricultural laws posted above sound as if they are there to help protect us. Just my opinion...

Richard

I am glad you find it interesting.

"The way I look at it, the law is the law, and it's not okay to ignore ones that benefit a person for a particular reason. Those agricultural laws posted above sound as if they are there to help protect us. "

The law is the law thing would fly if we lived in a perfect world. But we don't. I would be willing to bet that you have gone over the speed limit when it benefited you when you were in a hurry. I would be willing to bet that you have gone thru a stop sign with out coming to a complete stop when you were in a hurry. I would be willing to bet that as a youngster, you partook in alcholic beverages when it benefited you. I would be willing to bet that you have done many many other things that have benefited you.
Just a thought.

Ya'll dont mind me, I am going to step outside and water my cycads. :-)

LOL, Hope it's nice and warm and your Cycads get a nice drink.

Why is my name and reputation being used in a derogatory manor by some person on this forum?

I found it interesting how the agricultural laws were being discussed as a tool for Cycad Conservation.
Sort of illustrated the good and bad aspects along with the hopes for a better product :-)

bountyhunter_grower,
I'm only assuming your are the owner of the nursery that the poster from Kansas kept referring to as shipping non inspected plants into Kansas?
How someone runs their business within legal confines is there own concern. Since he received his order OK it must have been a legal shipment. He seemed quite happy with the product and service which leaves a nice endorsement.

I didn't mean to have a conflict arise here. Seems like Cycads can become a sensitive subject.

I'm going to move on with this thread.

I was fortunate as far as the cold spell we had here in SoCal last month. The coldest it got for me was 34-36F. It didn't freeze...mainly because of the elevation and steepness of the property.

Anyway, if you look at my profile, you can see the conditions I garden under. I have a lot of South African stuff in particular.

Here's another pic of an area of the yard that is not developed yet. This is the area I will be focusing on.

-Ron-

{{gwi:1168352}}

IS THERE NO MODERATOR ON THIS FORUM? ANYTHING GOS ? EVIDENTLY THERE ARE NO RULES OR POLICIES TO BE ENFORCED.

This is plain ridiculous you guys need to grow up !
All these other guys did was suggest growers they have dealt with.. What is wrong with you people ?
perhaps the majority of you just want someone to buy your product .. So you put people down .
People by the way who try to go out of their way to make sure you get a good deal , most growers do in fact care about their plants and customers for that matter
and for those you who have never dealt with these
growers how can you downgrade them ?
I am sick of all you wannabe palm experts down
classing everybody else you need to find a new forum
if you can't say anything good about hard working people !!

You are right topher 2006. I wholeheartedly agree with every word you have said.........Thanks, Robert

Here is a link that might be useful: Chumley Cycads

Hey Bob,
Hows that variegated Cycas taitungenesis doing?
Randy

Hey Randy. Thanks for the support. The variegated Cycas Taitungensis specimens growing here at the Chumley Estate are finally producing pups that are beautifully variegated and growing at a very rapid pace. I have not given up hope of producing seed from these magnificent plants, but unfortunately most are of the male gender and that makes it very slow. Sinse Taitungensis rarely ever pup, I had to take a machete and scar the trunks in order to get them to start producing pups (basil offshoots) and it certainly has been sucessful. I now have a waiting list for variegated cycads and I try to accomodate everyone's wishes. how is your Variegated Plant Website doing? You and Sherm have such nice items that are the best quality. The Crinums, ferns, and other species that I received from you are quite a conversation piece with everyone who visits here. Thanks .......Robert Chumley

Here is a link that might be useful: Chumley Cycads

ROBERT BUDDY!!!
I am florida_wannabe, or as you know me Wes from Topeka.
I am the one defending you from the start here on this thread.
I have and always will defend Mr. Chumley to the fullest. He is the best man I know when it comes to Cycads & Dioons.
Robert, I can not wait till Spring when I can put out these things you shipped me. Again, thanks for the bonus plants and the quick turn around.
Also, that friend of mine in Kansas gave me a tree that you gave him as a bonus. On the tag, you wrote "Shogun". Can I ask what that is??? It is doing unbelievely well since I got it from him by the way.
Also, the 5 Tait/Guiz Hybrid seeds you gave me as a bonus, all have a VERY size cone starting.
Florida_wannabe, sticking up for my buddy Robert Chumley!!!!!

Hey Bob,
All the specimens I recieved from you on our last visit are doing great, thanks for the plants, advice and spreading your knowlege. All the Cyca, Dioon, Zamia, Bowenia are doing great along with the variegated Anthuriums and Philodendrons.
Sherm wants to know how are your guard chickens doing? He still can't get over how they run up to the car when we pull up.
Randy