Many many thanks to you all for taking the time and trouble to reply. It was a real help. plantloverkat - The link to the AHS was extremely helpful to me - not only the wonderful heat map, but also the other useful info on that page, which I read with great interest. I checked the Israel Meteorological Service Site for number of days over 86 F a year, and discovered I'm in heat tolerance zone 8. Many thanks again. anntn - Thanks for the link to the book. It looks quite promising. Jackie - You're probably right & I'm in cold tolerance zone 10, but it seems to me now that cold tolerance is less relevant than heat tolerance (and humidity of course), for the simple reason that I never have snow & frost is quite rare. My soil is alluvial, dark, heavy. I planted the roses right into it & so far (4 months) they're doing fine & setting lots of buds. I'm rather fond of this soil though in winter it turns into sticky paste-like mud % in summer it bakes into a hard crust of greyish brown & cracks (not a nice sight). catrose - Southern California does fit the bill (Stockton is one of the places I found when I checked by heat tolerance). That said, I'm not sure about rose growing not being rocket science :) mariannese - I emailed the Wohl Rose Park yesterday but they haven't replied yet. In any case, the climate in Jerusalem is different from mine. I don't think they're some sort of national rose org, but a local rose park, so I'm not sure they'd know about the coastal plain. However it was worth visiting their site because I discovered the garden has a special section for the blind with only highly fragrant roses whose names are set in braille. Buford - Sorry you lost your lilacs. What you say about roses corresponds to what I hear about roses in Israel in terms of summer slumber. Sherry - Savannah is also one of the places I found when I researched the heat tolerance map. Fungal disease pressure here is enormous. In fact roses are notorious for fungal disease (and all other types of disease & pests), which deters many gardeners. If I had a dollar for every time I heard a gardener say he won't touch roses with a bargepole I could buy loads of roses. Soil test is a good idea, and you warmed the cockles of my heart with your good wishes for me and my roses. I'll be more than glad to keep you posted.

We are in z7 according to the USDA but there are microclimates all over the place. It is an AVERAGE tho, take it with a grain of salt. I mainly think of my garden as z6b but I still try lots of z7 plants. Most years they will make it, but I still think of them as marginally hardy (to 10ðF). If you like them well enough you can always replant them! Sandy

Interesting I see there are 4 heat zones in my state. Im in heat zone 1, I don't have to go far for that to change. I can see how it can make a big difference Thank you for the link Seysonn its something Ill use for future reference. Ive been growing hots for 25 years always in the same aria . Surrounded by water keeps me 10 degrees cooler then just 10 miles up the road. Good place to get a most excellent fruit set. Ive seen it 100 in Phily . and stay in the high 80s here, Very useful information

I looked at Robin's images of S. clinopodioides, Flowers appear to be as blue as those of S. guaranitica 'Black and Blue', but smaller. An eBay seller is offering both of these live plants for sale. I believe that S. lineata has been bid up to $15.95 and is being offered by eyeesoteric, and S. clinopodioides is being offered by sweet65splitty on eBay, currently bid at $8.00. I just discovered these folks by googling these Salvias. I've never heard of them. Have you guys? Both offer other hard to find Salvias for sale or bid. sweet65splitty notes that he/she has over 200 species of Salvia seeds. Does not list them, but advise that e-mail thru eBay and he/she will let you know what she has or if she has what you're looking for. Sorry, Richard, didn't mean to steal your post but wanted to post this info while I had it handy. S. lineata looks like a real beauty of a red with those tomentose flowers and leaves. Susan