Hmmm Hmmm Hmmm

tough one. I used to live in OKC. Have LOADS of friends there. Really liked it.

Then I moved. First to Tahlequah (didn't stay long) then to Tulsa.

I like it here too. Not to many friends here yet, but the scenery is a lot prettier.

Both cities have all the anemities you could imagine, but if you like riding a train, OKC should be it.

You can take the Amtrack south, all the way to Fort Worth.

Both have airports, museums, bicycling trails...

If you end up in Tulsa, let me know.

Moni

I live in Oklahoma City. Honestly, as much as I love the people here, there is no denying that Tulsa is a better place to garden. They get more rain and less wind. They don't call it green country for nothing

That is a hard ? Lived in the N. of OKC mostly but lived close to Tulsa for a short time and a brother who has lived there over 20 years.
My perception is that there was more oil money for cultural things in Tulsa, better parks and museums and also many of the surrounding school districts are highly rated. The scenery is very pretty with lots of rolling hills and hardwood forest and they usually get more rain than in central OK, things tend to grow easier.
Central OK, there is plenty of growing room without fighting alot of rock, just clay, and you can see forever if you are on top of a hill. There are alot of nice museums and parks and I have taken a trip on the train to FTW and it is alot of fun. OKC school districts have some really good ones and some other ones too, like all large cities there are many suburbs to consider. People here are usually open and friendly, probably what you are used to in AR.
I think both cities have alot going for them and both have some great old architecture in the towns. Hope you enjoy living in OK, no matter what you decide.

Wishful, my son was raised in OKC, but loves living in Tulsa. I'd love to have Tulsa dirt and rain, though they've been a little short on rain this year. If you like gardening in red clay, you'll love OKC. And we'll all wonder if you are nutz!

I grew up in Tulsa and then moved to western Oklahoma where I met my husband and them moved to OKC, where we raised our family. The City. I still love Tulsa. But it is becoming a huge city, too.

Hey, don't kid yourself Tulsa has plenty of clay (mine is yellow). I've only visited OKC and I found it had more things to do other then shopping, the movies and eating out. But now Tulsa has the Aquarium, and maybe they will add something else of interest. Tulsa is a pretty town, with nice suburbs to choose from also (Bixby has great soil). I vote for living in Tulsa and driving to OKC for something different to do.

Tulsa's green with a white-collar mentality, and OKC is drab with a blue-collar mentality.

OKC has more things to do, and seems to have better streets to get to them on.

Tulsa has lousy streets and a 3-ring circus for city government. Then again, OKC has the state gov'mint, so it makes for more clowns...

Tulsa is close to numerous lakes, boating, fishing, and closer to good hunting in se OK.

Don't know how much gambling is around OKC, but Tulsa has numerous locations to throw your money away.

Tulsa has it's share of clay--I have a yardful if you need any.

OKC has a concrete ditch running through downtown. Tulsa has the Arkansas "river" running along the west edge. There's enough water in it to cover most of the bottom a few weeks each year...

Tulsa taxpayers are footing the bill for a new auditorium downtown because OKC has one.

OKCs big auditorium is used so little, they were willing to pay an NBA team from the hurricane area to come play in it all season...

The people in both places,for the most part, are great!

Most of them aren't quite as cynical as I.

It ain't called "Green Country" for nothing ya know. I wish someone would have mentioned, to me, about all this mold and mildew! However, it IS an hour and a half closer to Arkansas, which is my main reason for staying here. Otherwise, my vote would be for OKC! Gardening? You can buy good, rich, topsoil most anywhere, even in OKC!

For me,I still have dreams of moving to the mountains of AR, building a bigger mountain cottage and living on polk salad, cornbread/beans, and wild huckleberries. Now, to find a hillbillie gal whose colon will take that diet! *giggle*

You hit the nail on the head Plaidthumb about that auditorium. I'm sure all the cutting edge headliners in the music, sports world etc. were just waiting for Tulsa Oklahoma to have a large stadium to perform in. Cynic #2

Aunt Net, the oil money in Tulsa isn't what it used to be. The symphony is a shadow of its former self. I think they still have Tulsa Ballet. The two art museums in Tulsa are wonderful.

Tulsa covers a smaller area and is easier to get around.

The riverbottom south of town has great dirt, as someone mentioned. I live in the hills west of town, and have a mixture of sand, clay and rocks rocks rocks. The rocks are fun for landscaping, and the soil, once compost is worked in, will support a pretty nice garden.

I lived in OKC for 37 years, and Tulsa for the last 12, and I prefer Tulsa. I would never go back.

Personally, I will stay just west of OKC unless I go due north. OKC is just into the wheat belt, but not by far. Tulsa is definitely not. Too much rain. Yes, the rainy zone can make for some tremendous produce. Someone mentioned Bixby, which is just south of Tulsa and is Oklahoma's produce capital! Nobody mentioned the Williams Center, as fabulous place to visit and shop.

There is clay and sandy loam in both cities. Plaid, unfortunately, there are several casinos around the greater OKC area, too. All on Indian land, of course, but as you say, it's just a waste of hard-earned money! Sod, with a diet like you just mentioned, I think it would cure any colon problems a person would have. We eat too less natural and whole foods in this country. See where that has led us? Hmmm. The mountains sound interesting for their flora and fauna but still, I'm a prairie person.

Tomato_Worm59,

Did you receive the Moonflower seeds I sent. I sent you around 400 or so, and that should do what you wanted. Considering how many pods each plant makes, and allowing for an average production of 300 seeds/pod, I cannot imagine what you will do with all those seeds, come the end of next season! You yard shall be the monument to Moonflowers in your area, .

You are certainly right about the diet. I like the prairies too, but Arkansas mountain air is so refreshing and the well water, unbelievable. My well is 850 ft deep. Imagine that! The slower paced life heals, and the quiet is awesome! In the stillness of an afternoon, atop a mountain, do you have any idea how much noise a falling leaf makes? On the prairie we look up to the clouds, but can you imagine the feeling of being IN that cloud from a mountain top! Oh my, I can't stand this. I'm sorry, I digress. We were speaking about OKC vs Tulsa.

Sod

Interesting question. Have never lived in Tulsa but have always enjoyed visiting the city's museums and think the northeastern part of the state is very pretty. I don't actually live in Oklahoma City, but for 45 years have lived in a suburb of the city, and that is the best of both worlds -- small town living with big city advantages. I have a lot of respect for the people of Oklahoma City and their city government. The MAPs program has been successful in bringing a lot of improvements to the area. One has to respect a populace that will vote for taxes and a city government that will spend the tax money as promised. As for gardening, oh well, some years are good and some years are better. Isn't it that way most everywhere?

Giggi, I quote you," One has to respect a populace that will vote for taxes and a city government that will spend the tax money as promised".

What a great statement! That is a great thing to be able to say about one's city and people. Personally,that satement, alone, puts OKC ahead of Tulsa.

I grew up in Tulsa, lived in Norman for six years, Fairview for four, and now OKC for the last 7, so I feel qualified.

The traffic in Tulsa is reason enough to live in OKC.
The mosquitoes in Tulsa are reason enough to live in Okc.
The heat/humidity in Tulsa are reason enough to live in OKC.

Tulsa really is gorgeous, especially in the old oil-money areas, but its too compressed. The streets are not just terrible they're WAY too narrow. I really can't stand driving in Tulsa for more than a couple of days. OKC is better for driving hands down. OKC also has many pretty areas...its just a lot bigger and more spread out than Tulsa.

Having grown up going to the symphony and ballet and plays and museums in Tulsa, I can understand the 'cultural' bias that Tulsa seems to have over OKC. That may have been true before, but after our MAPS project built the art museum, the canal, new library, the downtown river project, etc., OKC is catching up if not surpassing. Tulsa has better municipal art...but again, OKC is catching up.

Tulsa has great soil, at least at my parents house, but I have great soil at my house in OKC. It just depends on the area in both places. I'm surrounded by Oaks (middle of the city) and have loamy sandy well-drained soil. No clay, no rocks.

Tulsa has wetter winters. If you love ice, move to Tulsa. We get some, but not as bad. The one thing Tulsa has that OKC doesn't, that almost makes up for the horrible traffic, is Steakstuffers sandwich shop. mmmmmmm....the best philly in the state, maybe the world!
MB

Well, thank you all! Very interesting comments. Of course, I am still in a quandry. We visited OKC, but haven't had a chance to visit Tulsa yet. Liked what we saw of OKC. We were looking for a place to live, mostly in the far northwest part of town and the Edmond area. We loved that you can see forever and the city is about the size of Nashville, TN which is where we are from originally. In Nashville, we lived near a wonderful, huge park that we used often. Didn't see anything like that in OKC. Did we miss it? What are the parks like there, and in Tulsa?

There is definitely more to brag about in OKC every day. The MAPS projects have really improvd the downtown and Bricktown areas with more cultural and entertainment activities. As for parks, try Lake Hefner trail, Dolese Park, and the new park along Byers Bridge (don't know the actual name). We were there this weekend and watched intercollegiate rowing on the river. There were colleges from all over the country competing. In addition, there were food booths from many quality restaurants plus general state fair food (corn dogs). There was also a mini arts festival. The landscaping and trails have definitely improved over the last two years. Still haven't seen the trails on the south side of the river,but there was too much to due on the north side of the river.

Next time you are in town, visit Myriad Gardens downtown or Will Rogers Park at 30th/36th and Portland.

Professionally, I like to brag about the Presbytarian Research Park and the building of a biotech/technology corridor along I-35. There is definitely alot for an individual to get involved with and make a real difference. The city, the chamber of commerce, and the research community have really gotten together to make things happen.

I enjoyed Tulsa when in high school. Ten years ago I would have agreed with the statement that Tulsa is white collar and OKC blue collar- but not any more. OKC has a definite white collar professional atmosphere- but we are comitted to doing the hand work to make are city something special. In that regard, it is my preception that Tulsa is going through some hard times. The image right now is one of a soon to be has been, while OKC is an up and coming city. I think either city is worth living in, but OKC has my enthusiam.

Well, I'll put my two cents in. First of all, I was born in Stillwater (but I'm a Sooner fan.) Other than that, I've lived in Oklahoma City my entire life. I have been in and around Tulsa many times and I have to drive there every other weekend to pick up my stepdaughter. I've heard the argument that Tulsa is whitecollar and OKC is for the working class. OKC is one of those cities that you will never get the feel for until you've been in and around there (which, as you've stated, you have.)

I would encourage you to visit Tulsa, but I think that by far and away, there is more diversity in Oklahoma City. As far as gardening, rumour has it that there are portions of the central part of OKC which have excellent soil. Well, I'm hear to tell you that it is DEFINATELY true. I live in a little sub called Bethany that has the small town feel right in the heart of the city. Our soil is excellent (almost sandy.) I have zero clay in my yard and anything will grow here. It's interesting because my parents live due north in Piedmont and it is entirely clay soil.

Anyways, there are alot of up and coming changes for OKC in the next couple of years. As you know we have a guest NBA team in town (and rumours of a possible permanent team if this goes well.) Additionally, the I40 crosstown bridge going right through downtown is being completely renovated (or moved rather.) That is expected to really skyrocket OKC's economy by improving the downtown surroundings.

I remember studying OKC and other comparative cities and how OKC is not a downtown centered city, but is a compilation of numerous booming suburbs. I think that is why driving conditions in OKC are so much more desirable than in most comparative cities.

All in all, there is so much more to do in OKC...

Oh yeah, and as far as parks go, in Bethany, we have a great park called Eldon Lyon Park. It's a wonderful community park. It is famous for its 4th of July celebrations.

tomato worm--you mentioned the Williams center as being a good place to shop...Is it even in use anymore? I know they took the ice rink out years ago, and I was the under the impression that when Williams went bankrupt, the building was sold, gutted, and converted to office space.

I could certainly be wrong, since, like most in this area, I never go to "downtown" Tulsa. There's not much there unless you work there or need an attorney. (Which is fine with me--in my book the idea of "downtown" is an idea which has come and gone. If we want to "revive" it, tear down some more empty buildings and put in a Walmart...)The "Main mall" was torn out to get traffic flowing again. The largest % of the shopping $ in Tulsa is spent within a mile radius of 71st & Memorial.

I've been reading the comments about OKC. It's been 10 years since I did anymore than drive through it, and it was dirty and gray. The streets I was on certainly weren't wider than what we have in Tulsa. They were in better shape, though. Next time we go to the Kirkpatric center or zoo, maybe we'll spend some extra time there. Sounds like it is pretty nice now. Has Remington Park closed down yet, or are they still throwing money at it?

Wishful, wherever you end up, it'll be as good or as bad as you make it. It's no different than with car dealers--as many as swear by a certain dealer, you'll find as many that swear AT the same dealer... Out of curiosity, have you ever been west out of OKC? It doesn't take long for it to get real drab--the same as western Kansas. Speaking of Kansas, if you have any interest in the history of space travel in America, you owe it to yourself to take a drive up to Hutchinson KS--they have a Cosmophere up there full of equipment from NASA, plus they have a "Blackbird" spy plane hanging in the lobby. They brought the plane in, then built the building around it. It's an awesome place to see.

One more thing, as one gets older medical care looms important in the landscape. I have used the heart hospitals at both St. Anthony and Baptist Integris and was grateful to have them available. I feel the many medical complexes available in Oklahoma City are a real asset to our community.

From what I hear and what I've read on my own, it sounds like Tulsa is more like where I'm from (Nashville, TN) and we loved it there, but I've also heard the housing market is terribly depressed and we have to think about resale of course. Just once I wish I could move somewhere and buy a house because it was what I wanted and where I wanted, not because it was in a good location for resale!

Anyway, you all have been great and I really appreciate all your thoughtful and helpful replies. Will let you know how it all shakes out. Wherever I wind up, I'll have a garden!

You might want to think about living in the suburbs of OKC. Like Edmond, Norman, Bethany, Yukon, Moore. Edmond and Norman have the best schools, if you have to take that into consideration. A lot of people commute downtown to work or to other areas. Norman is home to the University of Oklahoma and the OU Sooners football, basketball, and many other sports. They also have the Lloyd Noble Arena, where music and other events are held. They also have the OU ballet and lots of other events, like the Medieval Fair in April. It's very child oriented and adult-oriented. The shopping is not the best there (small mall), but you're not far from better shopping in the city. Edmond is where they always say you have to wear Ralph Lauren to cross into the city limits. It does have great schools, two smaller colleges (OCU and OCC), great shopping all around. Housing is more expensive across the board. In Norman it has a wider margin. I work in a law office downtown. Most of our attorneys live in Edmond and drive into the city. But some live in Norman and commute.

I think there are great suburbs in Tulsa, too. Someone mentioned Bixby. Tulsa is a smaller town, more jammed up together, while OKC is more spread out.

OKC also has an OSU campus and lots of horticultural events, as well as the downtown Myriad Gardens and Crystal Bridge. Plant sales occur annually at the Myriad, and OSU has a farmer's market in the summer. OKC also has a farmer's market, and probably Tulsa does, too.

Lots of gardening groups meet at Will Rogers Garden Center in OKC. I know there is the Oklahoma Horticulture Club, Iris Club, Daylily Club, Herb Club, etc. OKC also has a very nice zoo, with a butterfly garden among many other things.

OKC also has a state fairgrounds. The state fair just finished up. Lots of events out there, too!

Housing markets are probably best in Norman, Edmond, and Yukon.

That's my 2 cents.

Susan

Tulsa and OKC are so easy to travel between, that the good things featured in each of these small cities is easily accessed no matter in which town you choose to live.

If you do move to Tulsa, and want good soil, there is better chance of finding that in the southern most part of Jenks (131st-141st south), betwwen Peoria/elm street and Yale Ave. There is a very nice addition located off of 141st South and East of Lewis and about a half mile west of Harvard Ave. It is called Pecan Creek, and has some very nice custom built houses. The soil there is a fertile, very deep, silty loam.

There is also a developer clearing and getting ready to build homes on a nice section of land along 141st South and Harvard.

Those two additons are about two to two and one half miles just west of the Arkansas river. Taxes are low in the Pecan Creek addtion, because they are in the Bixby School district. The other almost started housing additon is about 1/2 mile closer to the City of Bixby, so I would imagine they are also in the Bixby School district.

There is a fairly new Golf Course community housing additon along 151st street South, and Just East of Yale Avenue in Bixby. The soil there most likely is very good as it is also in the area of the good Bixby farm land. The thing I do not like about that neighborhood is the fact that some Major high voltage Power lines cross that housing additon, and continue toward the southwest.

If you do move to Tulsa, try to avoid Midtown, or East and Northeast Tulsa. There are some well built older homes in mid-town, but most are build on heavy, dark clay soils. Even worse in the area south of midtown there are hills, which damage all but the houses with the very best piered foundations. The hills of Tulsa consist of layers of sediment and types of rock layers that shift very easily. Many of the high dollar homes in South Tulsa which are located on those hills, have had expensive foudation repair work done. Even though that added piering prevents foundation failure, the house still shifts enough to cause cracking problems in the house walls, patio and garden hardscape.

In many sections of Mid-town, East, and Northeast Tulsa, the shrinking and swelling of the clay soil, causes similar problems.

There are areas within a mile or two all along the Arkansas river that are mostly sand. A house in those areas also shifts and needs special foundation design. Parts of Tulsa, Jenks, Bixby, and the southern parts of Broken Arrow have neighborhoods built on very sandy soil within a mile of the Arkansas river.

From a gardener's point of view, If unable to live on the loamy soil, I would rather live on dark clay soil than sand. At least the dark clay is very fertile, and many trees, shrubs, and plants do thrive in that soil as long as the proper drainage techiniques are applied.

If you like english gardens and similar types, than the 6b zone of Tulsa is the choice of the two cities: if you like succulant gardens then the 7 - 7b zone of OKC is best.

Hopefully the above information will help you especially if your destination does end up in the Tulsa area.

Katrina & Susan, thank you for the very helpful information about both cities! Just what I need.

Well, its gonna be OKC after all. Thanks for all your input. Now if someone will just buy my house here in Arkansas, I'll be joining you all for OKC gardening!

Welcome! I hope you like OKC. Actually, I think you would like most any place in Oklahoma. We moved here from Texas many, many years ago and have never regretted it. Okies are nice folk, and I'm proud to be one.

All right! I hope you like it, too. It is zone 7a, so you should be able to grow most everything you are growing in zone 7b in Arkansas. Welcome!

Susan

Thank you all. I hope I can move directly in to another house and not have to spend any time in an appartment. I'd like to bring a few plants along. Look forward to maybe getting to know some of you better.