I think it important to remember that there is no single correct method, with all others being wrong; if you do nothing at all, you can have a rather attractive rose. However, if the idea is for some specific look (e.g, to make a climber conform to the structure on which you're growing it), there are certainly methods that will help you accomplish that goal. Remember that even on climbers, flowers will appear on the new growth, not directly on those existing canes. So prune and train with the idea of where the flowers will appear. If it's a variety that puts up 6" or 12" or 18" canes before flowers, plan with those not-yet-existing canes in mind, realizing that they're going to emerge from the bud or two nearest the cut tip, or if the cane is horizontal, all along the top surface of that cane, from the axillary buds. I think that's the trick that you, as a "newbie" will soon learn, but maybe don't have just yet -- envisioning what the plant will look like on the spring growth flush, as opposed to what it will look like on pruning day. In your first year or two or three (depending on the climate and the size of the structure), you're developing an architectural framework for the plant, while also trying for some good bloom in that framework. Once the structure is covered, then your job each winter/spring will be to bring it back into good form for the upcoming year. If possible, to do that I like to remove the entire plant from the structure and re-tie it in the places I want it (much easier said than done in the case of big, heavy, thorny, stiff plants that are years old). But to the extent that you can do it, you'll get a better plant. That's one good reason to have a climber cover only the surface of the structure -- not woven through it -- so you can get it loose for retraining in future years. And yes, in a climate such as ours, we can usually remove massive amounts of wood each year, to the improvement, not the detriment, of the plant. There are a few exceptions (Marechal Niel comes to mind -- it hates hard pruning), but most roses can handle a really severe pruning in early spring, if that's what's needed. Is there any chance you might drive down to Lakeland this coming Sunday? The Central Florida Heritage Rose Society will be meeting at 2:30, Jack M. Berry Citrus Building, Florida Southern College campus, for a training session on pruning. Jim Bailey will be leading the talk and demonstration in the classroom (on potted roses). But then afterward, we could look in the FSC gardens and discuss pruning of the larger climbers. Malcolm

I remember the jingle advertising ti!...ending "make mine Ruppert!" Lots of history there...the owner baseball and I think politics....google it. But I don't know about a tray.

Sherilynn, that would be supremely helpful!! (not that I was ever going to get them, but it does make walking away easier). I am thinking of some pottery barn stools, either the Tibetan ones mentioned above (which look identical to the ones on Overstock and cheaper at Overstock, so I'd get them there) or the Megan stool. I think the point of a false sense of security with little kids and a stool with a back is a good one... also, a backless stool is going to be better for me so that I can tuck them under the counter as the spot for the stools is a little bit of a busy passageway. AND the backless stools aren't as wide which is also good for me. THANKS!! ps: I like the stool with the piping. I figured I could get an extra slipcover or two (still a lot less $$ than springing for the Moser stools) so that when the kids spill I can change it out. I have found that the straw seats aren't good for us... my 2 year old spills his milk while eating his cereal and so it isn't very easy to clean it out of straw (yuck!). probably wood would be the best for cleaning, but those megan stools look really comfy. Here is a link that might be useful: Megan stool from Pottery Barn

It would do everyone a lot of good to read about KCMA certification. Many of the site built and shop built cabinetry could possibly pass some of the construction tests, but NONE would pass the finish testing. You simply cannot get the same quality finish as with a high quality manufactured cabinet. That may not be important to some, but to most, knowing that their money is going towards something that will look good in 10 years time is very important to them. These tests create, in accelerated form, the cumulative effects of years of normal kitchen conditions of pre-finished cabinets. Cabinet finishes are inspected to ensure that stringent standards of appearance are also met.To test the ability of the finish to withstand high heat, a cabinet door is placed in a hotbox at 120 degrees Fahrenheit and 70 percent relative humidity for 24 hours. After this test the finish must show no appreciable discoloration and no evidence of blistering, checks, or other film failures. To test the ability of the finish to withstand hot and cold cycles for prolonged periods, a cabinet door is placed in a hotbox at 120 degrees Fahrenheit and 70 percent relative humidity for one hour, removed and allowed to return to room temperature and humidity conditions, and then placed in a coldbox for one hour at -5 degrees Fahrenheit. The cycle is repeated five times. The finish must then show no appreciable discoloration and no evidence of blistering, cold checking, or other film failure. To test the ability of the finish to withstand substances typically found in the kitchen and bath, exterior exposed surfaces of doors, front frames, drawer fronts and end panels are subjected to vinegar, lemon, orange and grape juices, tomato catsup, coffee, olive oil, and 100-proof alcohol for 24 hours and to mustard for one hour. After this test, the finish must show no appreciable discoloration, stain, or whitening that will not disperse with ordinary polishing and no indication of blistering, checks, or other film failure. To test the ability of the finish to withstand long periods of exposure to a detergent and water solution, a cabinet door edge is subjected to exposure to a standardized detergent formula for 24 hours. The door edge must then show no delamination or swelling and no appreciable discoloration or evidence of blistering, checking, whitening, or other film failure. Here is a link that might be useful: KCMA testing