blakrab: Thanks for the tip on the Japanese Raisin Tree. That does look intriguing! From checking on a couple of websites, it appears to be drought tolerant and somewhat tolerant of alkalinity although it looks like it may stay a little smaller than I'd prefer. I lived in Japan for a number of years and didn't notice this one. I'll check into it further. gardener365: Thanks for the tips on the Montezuma Cypress and the Shantung Maple. I had been considering the Shantung "Fire Dragon" but wasn't sure if it might stay pretty small. If anyone has gotten some good growth out of these down here in the Austin/San Antonio area, I'd love to hear their successes. Aesthetically, I am not as crazy about the cypress as a tree for the yard, although I like them near water. scotjute: Yes, I am sure you are right that the soil conditions I have will limit the ultimate height of any tree that I plant. I hope to compensate as much as I can early on by top-dressing with compost the first few years. However the reality of a tree trying to grow into that limestone base underneath will kick in. That is a great idea about getting a native Pecan. I wonder if nurseries carry them? I haven't done a lot of searching yet, but they do all seem to be focused on carrying grafted varieties that are good at producing nice nuts. In my case, I really just like the look of a Pecan tree and don't really care what it produces just that it grow vigorously. Do you have any ideas where I can find a decent sized native Pecan down here? Burr Oaks sure do sound like nice trees but I am wanting to steer away from another Oak as I already have a Red Oak and several Live Oaks. It's too bad about those Bigtooth Maples being so finicky, I guess I don't really want to roll the dice and have one not do well. I am not as keen on the cedars although if I was going to get one, I suppose a nice stately Deodar would look good. There is a large grove of 15-20' tall Blue Atlas Cedars planted at the Bass Pro shop on I-10 just NW of San Antonio that look less than totally happy. I am guessing it is just too hot here in the summer for them to do well. Too bad though, since I love to plant one of them! dricha: I have seen Chinkapin Oaks and do like them too, I had not heard of Sierra Red Oak. Does it look or have growth habits that are greatly different than the standard Red Oak? Thanks for the heads up on Fanicks, they seem to be highly regarded. I'll head out there and have a look. lou_midlothian_tx : Thanks for the info on the cypress, they do seem to grow pretty rapidly. I've read some of your posts on growing Shantung and Bigtooth Maples. Your soil at your previous local looked pretty tough from your photos too. What are your thoughts on the ultimate size on the Shantung? I know your posts indicated that your trees were doing well, what sort of growth rates did you get? Mexican Sycamore and a native Pecan still look like pretty good bets for me based on what I am hearing and my preferences. You all please let me know if you have any other suggestions. Thanks!

Six of us made it plus two little ones (Jandy Jr. and KMS Jr.). Jandy, elucas, Barbra, Sirkeith and wife, and me. Barbra and I rode together. Its great to have her along and not just because she brings her front row parking permit. :) Jandy JR and KMS JR found the ubiquitous nursery cat and made sure she got lots of attention and probaby a few grapes and cheeseballs too. They had not brought their in ground Plumerias back out but still had them in an obscure corner of a storage/greenhouse which it wasnt intended for us to be in but we were on a mission and won't be denied. They were just sitting on cardboard bare root. I was surprised to see that they just pull them out of the ground and left the leaves which IMO would dehydrate them (which they were). There were also about a dozen JJ 5 gallon plumerias still there. Most were the "premium X" or had the labels missing but there was one Mini Devine with 8 tips and 2 starting inflos (went home with Keith) and a very thick Southern Cross with six tips and a Thumbilina with 6 or 7 tips (both went with me). Barbra made sure I got some sort of discount for buying two plants. Jandy also gave me a two tip ETLD so now the correct answer on her Seedling Challenge is 30. She also gave me a very healthy Moragne #78 (Kelly I think). Also some Pride of Barbados Seeds. I went there with a box of cuttings and gladly departed with it empty to fill it up again as I pull mine out of the greenhouse and prune for shape. Everyone left with multiple cuttings of Rose Red, JL Penang Peach, Dean Conklin, JL Candystripe, JL Lei Rainbow, Aztec Gold, Jeannie Moragne Jr, NOID white Pinwheel, Celadine, and Giveaway Pink. Most of those cuttings were taken this weekend so please let them callus over. If you are not sure if its ready let me know. Thanks to Jandy for organizing (again) and for everyone who made it out there. I enjoyed it and look forward to the next meeting.

Definitely not a pygmy rattlesnake. What you have there is a black ratsnake (Pantherophis [Elaphe] obsoleta). That is a hatchling or juvenile (as evidenced by its vivid pattern). They're harmless animals and actually good to have around as they eat a number of rodent species...granted they also are quite fond of birds. The way you described as finding is also very typical of the species, as black rats are highly arboreal. ~Mike

Size can depend on the variety of butterfly bush. I'm in your growing zone and my older variety, White Profusion, can reach 6-7 ft during the growing season. Some of the newer varieties don't grow quite as large as the older varieties. If it were me, I'd allow 2-3 ft on each side of the plant for growth. Height could be anywhere from 4 to 7 ft during a growing season, again, depending on the variety. Perhaps knowing the name of your butterfly bush might allow someone growing your particuliar plant to better advise you. ~Mary