hey those dont look like the normal paperthin indian peppers that all seem to resemble cayannes.

so who is sending out the seeds? i want this now!

I am an Engineer by profession and want to see the results of this test in published form, the vita of the testing lab and etc. before I believe it. Guiness is not science..

Just saying it has been tested by two labs is no kind of scientific proof. The labs could be set up to test beauty products....or cat food....

Chile heads should require scientific proof of any claim of the "hottest chile". I have seen no scientific proof from the Dorset Naga's claimants.

Hi Willard

Being off a scientific background myself, I took your words to heart and checked out the labs concerned. Personally before casting doubt on a lab I would check it out a little for myself.... so I searched the web and found both the test labs websites.

The first lab where testing was done is in New Mexico and I quote from their contacts page

http://www.swbiolabs.com/

"Being located in the heart of the famous "Hatch Valley Chile" growing region, SBL also provides complete analytical testing of chile peppers and chile pepper products. All of our testing complies with American Spice Trade Association (ASTA) methods and includes pungency analyses, microbiological assays, color testing, moisture analysis and filth inspections. Our clientele represent a broad spectrum of businesses nationwide with diverse applications of chile pepper products. SBL offers over 20 years of experience in the chile pepper analysis field and we are located just 40 miles north of the major international border crossings at El Paso, TX and Santa Teresa, NM."

I guess thats why peppersbypost choose to take their samples to this lab first!

The second lab in New York is more specialised in dairy products than chiles, but even so appears to be a reliable source of tests on food products. They do in addition do a lot of spice testing.

http://www.800certlab.com/ind_spice.htm

Obviously more tests are needed to confirm the analyses, which are programmed for the 2006 crop in any case.

As for your statement "I have seen no scientific proof from the Dorset Naga's claimants." you can download the official test results cert from the dorsetnaga pages site - at the bottom of the Sampling etc page. I agree that one test is insufficient but with a second test seemingly confirming the result the claim must surely be given a little more credence. I look forward to seeeing the new test results in 2006.

All the best

Guy

I won't be scientific. Just want to grow it, bite into it, smoke and dry them into powder and see just how hot they really are! It is my "unscientific" method, but it'll convince me.

Hopefully this pepper has been stablilized, but it seems doubtful. Even it's a "one off" and the next generation is not as hot, it's still quite the honor to grow a pepper that beat out the Red Savina by 50%!

Chris

"Just saying it has been tested by two labs is no kind of scientific proof. The labs could be set up to test beauty products....or cat food...."

That doesn't matter. The machine they would use to test would be an HPLC and as long as the machine had proper calibration standards and they followed the proper method it would be acceptable to take the results as true. I am formerly an analytical chemist, just to give you some background.

I am just absolutely amazed at how quickly the word has spread about this pepper! Every newspaper, forum, etc. Even on a thai hot foods forum a posting was made. Amazing.

Chris

Hi Chris

I can not agree really about the speed...its going quick now but when you take into account that these peppers have been avaialble in asian supermarkets, curry houses and indian stores for at least seven year in the UK (I used to get them before I moved to France in 1999)I am astouneded that the var has not been accessed by the wider chile community for so long.

It looks like thats going to change pretty soon....

All the best

Guy

The naga jalokia was an error because the lab didn't have a
calibration standard, I can't envision a milk test lab having a chile pepper standard.

Hi Byron

Yes, but I am sure as hell that the first lab does and the milk lab is also a spice testing lab too, so I would be pretty sure that they do too.

All the best

Guy

Guy,

That's very interesting. Just for amusement, I live near 4-5 different Indian / Pakistan grocery markets. I tried going to them today since they were only a few miles away. Nothing different than thai hot peppers and long green cayenne looking peppers.

They must not have grown in popularity here as they did in the U.K. Wonder why? It is so rare to even see markets selling habaneros and NOTHING but orange. I can say I have never seen a red hab for sale at any fruit market. Hot peppers appear to have no market in Michigan. Very strange to say the least.

Chris

Hey Chris

Strangely enough I found some what were labelled as Piments Lantern in a local grocers store in Figeac (population around 10000)this very morning. I was quite surprised to say the least!!! They were not like any of the Lantern vars I have grown but looked real nice...I meant to go back and get some but they had closed for lunch by the time I got back (out of the pub). They looked more like a slightly pointed red hab and this in France, what is the world coming to!

I will be in town again on Tuesday and will have to get a few to try out. Its the first time I have seen a hab in France, that was not in my garden!! Although in most supermarkets you can find whats called Piment des Antilles - a form of scotch bonnet (all year round) and often small Piments d'oiseaux (usually green, pequin looking types).

When I lived in London (Southall..an area with 90% Indian, Pakistani and Banglasdeshi population) there was not much in the out of the ordinary type chiles but this is going back fifteen years or so. A lot of chiles nonetheless but nothing like the Naga. Those I saw and tasted for the first time back in my home town of Norwich in 1998.

Its a shame you did not find anything unusual in those Indian stores in MI, but I bet you found some other interesting stuff nonetheless!

All the best

Guy

I see why the "chileman" has such an interest, he already
has a hot sauce available commercialy with these peppers.

RE Dewitts latest newsletter.

Byron

Hi Byron,

The chileman is a non commercial site. I thought I would put my own recipie for Naga 'Snake bite' sauce on the site for a bit of fun.

Maybe Im missing a trick and could have floggeds hundreds of bottles of the stuff. Howvere, now that Ive revealed my 'secret recipe' Im sure its only a matter of time before someone tries and flogs the stuff................

Mark

Hi

There are really some odd reflections and misrepresentations on this subject going on!!

I do not think that anyone contributing to this thread has vested interests in the Naga being the hottest or not!

Try reading the lines rather than between them!!!

All the best

Guy

Now I know the "secret" recipe for Naga snake bite sauce. lol. :)

Chris

20% hype......80% horseshit!
Tom B. Stone

http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y295/thechileman/Naga%20Morich%20Gallery/?action=view&current=NagaSnakeBite.jpg

Mark

The part your missing is integrity..

If you think you have an honest product send some to Dewitt and Bosland for evaluation.

I have been with the Chile Heads group for about 10 years
and I have seen a lot of hype and a lot of B.S, I am also 65 so I have seen more than my share of BS over the last 50 something years.

Sorry but at this moment it sounds like snake oil to me with the Indian back up... I can't count the number of false claims from India.

Byron

Hi Byron

I think you are choosing to miss the point of my last post and Marks last

one too. The Snake Bite Sauce is only a sauce he makes for fun and to

share with friends...its not a commercial product, which Mark very

clearly stated...you see it being offered for sale? Certainly no reason

to question someones integrity!!

If you look at the photo that TomStone provided a link to, it is

obviously not a commercial label and makes no claims about the heat level

of the sauce or peppers.

As to the reliability of the test results there are many possible doubts

that could be presented, the most obvious being that the samples were

provided as powder and therefore could have been adulterated.

The peppers in question are to be grown out and tested by DeWitt and

Bosland next year (seeds provided already by Mark) and I will be growing

Nagas from four different sources (including the Dorset Nagas and three

different samples of the Bangladeshi pepper from which it was developed).

I spoke with DeWitt by email yesterday and he asked me to provide samples

of dried whole pods of each of those I will be growing - to be sent to

him and Bosland - for comparative testing (different climate, growing

techniques etc).

All the best

Guy

Wow, 4 different sources Guy! You're sure to get some scorchers out of that pool. :)

Chris

Hi Chris

I sure hope to see a few hot ones out of that lot...but then again I am quite happy with the hot ones I grow already...especialy the chocolate chinenses.

I grew some excellent chocolate habaneros from Redwood City Seeds last year that proved to be way hotter than the Red Savinas I grew or any of the samples I have tasted for that matter....thats of course my (old BSing)palate judging them not a milk testing lab..LOL. Although I notice that the 2001 heat levels reported by Firey Foods reported higher scores for a Chocolate Hab and an Orange Hab than for the Red Savina.

My hope in all of this is not that the Naga proves to be the hottest in the world and gets accepted as such but that this little known and very tasty chile gets to be enjoyed by the wider chile community. There are an awful lot of very good and extremely firey chiles out there as it is and it is largely immaterial which is the hottest to most consumers. If I choose to tell of my experiences and opinions its not to promote anything in particular but the love of chiles of all shapes forms and incendiary properties.

The above aside the Naga is the hottest chile I have tasted and I have tasted a few...been growing and enjoying hot chiles since the age of 14..I am now 42....I hope that any of you that get the chance can judge for yourself, because aside of the extreme heat it is really a super tasting chile.

I would be quite happy to share any seeds I produce and if I get a decent crop I will share the pods too. Anyone interested can email me.

All the best

Guy

I had some free Viagra, now it's $10 a pill :-)

As far as I know you cant sow Viagra and make produce your own!

Guy

At 65 Byron, you probably need it!!! (sorry Bryon but after questioning my integrity & motives - I couldnt resist it!!)

I may not have 40 year pepper growing experience but what does that matter? After all - I grow peppers for the love it and visit this forum to learn for others a lot more experienced than I am.
Im no expert on the subject and don't profess to be and my plants may not win any prizes at the local show but who cares..

Mark 'the snake charmer'

--As far as I know you cant sow Viagra and make produce your own!--

Well of course not..the soil gets too hard to work with!

True or False: The Naga Jolokias mentioned are the same as the designation Indian PC-1? I got a package of those from Redwood and they are going nuts right now.

That remark about Byron was totally uncalled for. This forum is supposed to be for information and opinions and not for snipping remarks. Please don't let this place degenerate into some of the catty, name-calling messes other forums have become.

Hi

Steelwheels - The PC1 is an annuum, a long thin pepper which slips off the calyx when ripe. Those I grew out last year went nuts too, producing early and very well, but they were not really that hot. I quite like them for curries but prefer a lot of others.

The Nagas are chinenses, so they are not the same plant at all. I never understood why the NJ and the PC1 were claimed as the same pepper..salt and pepper to me!

I got a couple of those Lantern peppers that I saw the other day when in Figeac this morning...they are infact a standard red hab, a refreshing change from the dried pepper diet I am on at the moment but nothing particularly special..just very rare to see around here.

Nefer - One of the reasons I left this forum last year and did not come back until recently! I do feel however that Byrons explicit questioning of Marks integrity and implied questioning of my own, to be the objectionable part of this thread.

Byron - You may have reasons to compare your experience with Viagra to my offer but if you think about it...the peppersbypost people have said that they will be applying for PVP on their product. So trading these seeds may become illegal, costly or otherwise regulated. All I was trying to do was spread some happiness before this came about. If you think I am some kind of seed seller touting for business, you are very wrong.

I have already been threatened with legal action this year for giving away free seeds, because I was offering quite a few varieties and some madman thought I was doing publicity for a seed seller or I was setting myself up as one. I took advice and found that I was entirely within my rights to do what I was doing, so continue to do so.

All the best

Guy

Ahh, the politics of peppers!

Nefer has clearly stated the correct.

Hey Guy--Got any spare seeds for a sense of humor? :P
But seriously I thought this thread was for hottest peppers not hottest tempers :P

Really, now, nefer needs a chill and Byron didn't seem ticked by being ribbed so, eh. shrugs. No more ruffled feathers till someone has info to debate ok?

Guy

Do you know how much it cost for a commercial bottler to bottle your product and minimum charges? Most folks have to put a second motgage on their homes and can't pay it an loose their homes.

Seeds are a whole different ballgame when it comes to cost,

You can save seeds from a few pods for friend for a lot less than $50.

Lets just say out of all the agricultural statements from India being proven WRONG for the last ten years I will wait for statements from NMSU. Sorry been burned too many times

Mark

The media advertised free Viagra, A chat with your pharmacists will get the cost for free. Nothing more than asking. But FWIW and your .EDU Folks with Pernicous Anemia
and Diabetes may need this treatment If you from North European descent you have a big chance of needing viagra
before your dead

I am out of this topic, My guess that a year down the road will have some factors not known today

Byron

Hi Bryon,

I understand the reasons for you post and apologise if I got the wrong end of the stick.

Like Guy, what really rived me a few weeks back was when Peppersbypost sorted PVP protection for their precious Dorset Naga (aka Naga Morich) a pepper which is certaintly not unique to them, as several of us have also come across this and grown out this pepper. To give them credit, I believe these Nagas do have a serious claim on being the worlds hottest but I object to them trying to corner the market/ trying to prevent the free movement of seeds amongst the rest of us hobbiests. Im not too sure on the ins and outs of PVPing varieties so this might not effect us anyway.

I have a very small number of Naga Morich seeds and I can send you some if you like. They are very difficult to germinate but hopefully you would be able to grow some out and experience the pods for yourself. From speaking to other growers they are similar but not quite the same as 7 Pod and Tridad Scorpion tongue. They are certainlty the hottest thing Ive ever come across. The vapuors just cutting open the pods makes my eyes water!
Ive sent some seed to several pod pals around the world and also to the New Mexican State University NMSU) so they too can try and grow these out and put peppersbypost claims to test. You never know, if the NMSU cn successfully grow them out and test them, they may well be proved the worlds hottest (until (something else comes along!!) Personally, I couldnt care less as at these heat levels you can hardly eat even a small slither. After all, I for one grow peppers to be eaten.

If appeciate your knowledge, experience and posts on this forum (I am a mere amateur in comparison). Im not sure if youve visited our website but if you havent, and do decide to visit, and spot any glaring errors/incorrect information I would be grateful for any feed back. We have set this site up to try and provide another useful resource for all chile enthusiasts and although we might put some advertising on it at some point in the future (if it gets popular) we have done it for kudos/the fun of it, not with commercial intentions and certainly dont expect to make any money out of it.

Ive taken some more images of the Naga Ive grown which you can find in my photobucket account (if interested):

http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y295/thechileman/Naga%20Morich%20Gallery/

Mark

>New Mexican

FWIW New Mexico State U is the correct name

PVP = If you sell plants or seeds w/o paying the owner of the PVP's permit, they can sue you, BUT if I give you a dozen seeds, would the cost of a lawyer ( Probably $30,000 to $40,000 USD) be worth the lawsuit???? I have yet to see a PVP case in court

Hi

There is no PVP, but I hear what you are saying, the Dorset "version" of the Naga may eventually get one. I personally hope not and feel that the genetics being relatively easy to come by in the UK for the pepper from which it was developed, that it would be difficult to justify. We shall see, no doubt.

All the best

Guy

Wasn't that long ago that we did this. Guess I'll just repost it.

DARLOCHILEMAN,
Woule you or would someone that knows how to contact darlochileman please contact me at bluelytes@yahoo.com Thanx

Regards;
bluelytes

Regarding John's "Opinion" thread; there seems to be a select few who rather than bringing constructive input to the table, take great satisfaction in "bursting someones bubble" or contributing negative comments.

With that said, I'm going to get a bit off topic for a moment and discuss "the worlds hottest chilli". :)

Not being an expert or following what varieties have made the top scoville unit listing, I do share a limited interest as to what pepper may currently be reaching the pinnacle of pepper pungency.
What exactly IS the hottest pepper? It depends on who you talk to. Some say Red Savina Habanero, others say Chocolate Habanero, etc...etc.

This winter while searching for a new variety of hot pepper to grow, I stumbled upon an interesting description of a pepper one seed supplier offers.
This pepper, according to the sellers description claims to be "three times hotter than the Habanero Red Savina and twice as hot as the Habanero Chocolate."

Before I add a link to the description, let me say that I found a similar pepper (quite possibly the same) at TGS and bought the seeds there.
Reimer's has it trademarked as "White Ammo"; TGS has it as "White Habanero" and I've also seen it referred to as "White Bullet".

Five out of 6 of the seeds I planted germinated and the seedlings are now transitioning to the weather, eagerly awaiting their permanent residence.

Although I don't profess my palate to hold the unique qualities it takes to judge scoville units, I am anxiously looking forward to sampling these little buggers.

Paul B.

"Personally, I am very reluctant to believe anything on April 1'st."

kj_57701, that was a hilarious comment. :)

Paul B.

"well, once guiness tests it and awards it the title of worlds hottest chili, then i guess it'll be the worlds hottest chili :)"

I did the Guinness test and can honestly state that after 6 or so, the heat from any pepper takes a back seat to the john (urinal).

:)

Paul B.

there's more to it than pure scoville unit numbers. since its a perceived heat, its got to do with how each of us have our tongue wired to our brain.

some people are wired such that they perceive the rocoto to be 1000 times hotter than a habanero.

does that make it the worlds hottest pepper? to those people, it does.

i am not one of those people. i love my rocotos.

Somewhere out there...there is a chile that is hotter than the Red Savina, whether it is the Naga Morrich or some other contender...who knows? But I have been impressed by Mark (the U.K. chileman or darlo chileman or anything else he wants to call himself) and have taken the time to peruse both his website and his greenhouse...and he has done a bang up job of presenting his case! So don't be pissin' down his back and tellin' him it's raining! Good luck Mark!
Tom

When I see the headlines that tout the worlds hottest pepper I usualy yawn and utter "Yeah right, here we go again".

Without an unbiased scientific standard test to determine the real "heat" against known benchmarks the rest is all just marketing hype (Or bull chit).

I grow Rocotos and Puriras (Plus a few dozen others) and I've had a few pods from the Puriras and Rocotos come off my plants that like to damn near dropped me on my tracks.

Gawd! Those things were hot, I eat my eggs with a generous sprinkle of Orange/Scotch Bonnet powder so I know from hot, the next pods that came from the same plants were normal so go figure.

One thing for sure though it's nothing to get your panties all bunched up anout when someone calls Bravo Sierra without a good test.

That is unless you are trolling to sell some seed on the side and the call spoiled your pitch.

We should wait for the news from New Mexico State University to find out which will be the hottest pepper between Trinidad Scorpion, Trinidad 7 pod, DorsetNaga, DorsetNaga original strain, Bhut and Bih Jolokia.

Long Tran,

Is NMSU really testing all those varieties this year?

I have a feeling Bih / Bhut Jolokia will win by a small amount. All are brutally hot. I tasted some Bih Jolokia powder from a friend in Europe. This stuff just floored me. It was inedible.

Growing peppers in Asaam probably produces a bit more heat than Michigan. :)

Chris

Chris,

I did send to NMSU some seeds when I bought the seed from UK. I am plan to send him some seeds of Trinidad Scorpion from Valley View Farms by the end of the year as well. NMSU right now to germinate some of the seeds I sent to them and not sure they have enough seeds to test out this year or not. Definitely we will know the winner within 2 years.

LT

I have two bhut jalokias and one naga dorsett growing, that I started on 2-1, and are already flowering - indoors, under HPS. The BJs are larger, but not by much, and the ND is the first one to have flowers that opened. Still have no idea when they will produce and ripen, but I started them very early, so I won't have to wait until Oct.!

And I have a guy at work who is going to be the first to try them, that eats my gold bullets and makes comments like "I thought that was a gold bullet, not a cold bullet!" The red savinas definitely aren't what they used to be, and the testing confirmed my "unscientific" testing, though they used to be much hotter. One chocolate variety got him pretty well, but still wasn't what the RSs were years ago.

I am hoping these will call his bluff...

Here are the photos of their growth. It is strange, in that both loose many lower leaves, then where the leaves were, another stem is beginning to grow. Maybe this happens with habs out in my garden, but they are so packed together I don't notice, as when right in front of me like this (I usually don't start them this early). http://s24.photobucket.com/albums/c18/pepperhead212/Bhut%20Jalokia%20and%20Naga%20Dorsett/

darlochileman,

You mean that DorsetNaga from dorsetnaga.com is the hottest pepper as on the website they said it measure at 1.6Million SHU. Is this correct??

LT

I know for sure that I will have Naga Morich from nagaseeds.org on my way to my house. Let see Naga Morich against Bih, Bhut, Scorpion, 7pod, Dorset Naga, and Dorsetnaga original strain. I will give you my opinion after that.

LT

Here is what the NMSU said as "Without controls, the Scoville heat numbers are not very useful. I can believe that Naga Morich did have a heat of 1.6 million, but what would Bhut Jolokia be if grown at the same place? So it is always important to design the experiment correctly.". It is come down to the same place and on the same field. All of us should be patient to wait for the news from NMSU. I believe that he has all the seeds of seller claim they have the hottest pepper seeds and hope Dr. Bosland has the seeds of DARLOCHILEMAN as well. Let the game begin.

LT

Pepperhead can you save me some seeds from both? I would love to try them down here in Florida.

Mrs. Michaud talked with BBC and with the quote "after talking to the BBC it is likely the plants they had were stressed a fair bit" so that the reason why they get 1.6 Million SHU. Mrs. Michaud said that they did the testing Dorset Naga but never get over 1 Million SHU. Hope we will know the true SHU of Trinidad Scorpion, Trinidad 7 pods, Naga Morich, Dorset Naga, Bih Jolokia and Bhut Jolokia soon. What about Morich Scorpion???

LT