Question on plumeria dormancy under winter grow lights

13 years ago

For those who are growing plumerias throughout the winter under grow lights and warm temperatures, what percentage of your plants actually loose all or most of their leaves and go dormant, despite summer-like conditions? Most of my plants hung on until January or February, but the majority of my 40+ plants have lost their leaves despite bright high intensity lights and warm (70-80 degree temperatures).

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fvgypsy

7 years ago

I received four plumerias last spring (in Minnesota) and planted them in pots and kept them inside in front a sunny East window until temperatures rose outside. Then I put them on the on the outside South patio. They leafed out nicely. When it started getting cold, I brought them and put them in my bedroom which faces south. I placed them there in the sun and added a small grow light which I left on 12 hours a day plus they received the sun on sunny days. I watered them well once a week. They have grown a lot and are full of leaves. They did not go dormant and I never had any bugs nor root rot. I am planning to put them back on the south patio in mid-June when all danger of frost is gone. Since they never had a chance to go dormant, I was wondering if that would hurt them? And, I was wondering when I should start fertilizing them? Should I start now (early April) or wait until I move them outside? The are very healthy, large, and beautiful. Many thanks for any help/answers anyone can give me.

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Comments (20)

jandey1
13 years ago
That's interesting about your plants going dormant even under lights. I think around 1/4 of mine kept at least one big leaf, usually they kept around 3, the entire winter. All my three dozen 5-month-old seedlings but one kept all their leaves. There were some in an east window, some in a south window, and some in an unheated garage. It didn't seem to matter at all what the conditions; they all did their own thing.

I think you're still going to see big benefits for all your trouble, in better blooming, as your plants had longer to store up water and energy for the summer. You've already had a very, very young seedling put out an inflo, right? I was amazed when I saw that, and secretly hopeful one of mine might bloom in less than three years!
amandcr
13 years ago
I have all of mine under a 400w MH light during the winter but the temps in my house range in the low to mid 60s. Out of my 8 rooted plants about 4 kept their leaves I also had 6 cuttings on a warming mat and 3 Adeniums of which only 2 kept their leaves (one i bought recently). I think it really depends on the types. The ones that kept their leaves were: Pink Kiss, Madame Pele, Kahuka Wilder, and a seedling. The others lost their leaves at different times. I had quite a bit of trouble with whitefly and spider mites this winter
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Since your plumie has been in its current location all winter and is happy there (thus the full leaves), Id leave it be. If you put iti in your basement or try to make it go dormant now you may confuse your baby. I have plumies that keep some of its leaves all winter long with no ill effects, except for maybe spider mites in spring. In some parts of the world like Central Mexico or Central America Plumies do not go dormant and grow and flower all year long. Basically only Fruit and ornamental trees like Chinese Magolia, Flowering Cherry trees that are deciduous need a rest period and cold to make it fruit again the next growing season. Basically leave well enough alone.... Cheers This post was edited by freak4plumeria on Sat, Apr 6, 13 at 13:47
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Hi Toni!!! Glad to hear your Plumies are doing well and are ready for their sleep this winter!! Like others have mentioned, you could let them stay active this winter or force into dormancy. I certainly understand your reasoning for wanting to cut the leaves and let them rest, especially because of spider mites. These really are "magnets" and i get so tired of fighting these little critters. I was going to let somme of mine ( 30 or so ) stay active, But i went ahead and cut leaves and put away just to have a break from mites. I also don't want them getting close to my other plants under lights this winter. Butterfly.. gave you great advice.. sounds like how and what i do with mine during the winter!! ;-) I cut leaves off for space reasons, but since you have a couple you could put them in a different room away from other plants to keep mites at bay.. spray and let the leaves fall of naturally. You do need to stop the watering weekly ( every other day) of these trees. I would let them dry out and place in a room that would work well for you to keep them "quiet" and away form other plants. My trees go into a back room all stripped of leaves and i sprayed them before they came inside. The bedroom door stays closed, heat off and blinds closed. The others are upstairs and placed close to each other to save on space. You dont have to do anything special to the grafted tree verses the other tree. They will both be fine. I do look at the trees at least once a month and i might give them a taste of water once a month. Others down south dont give water at all, but some people do.. Its your call. You have a long dormancy period like me, so we have them inside for longer than others do in Texas, Florida and others sunny places. Leave them in the container..i wouldnt touch the soil or mess with the roots at this time.. they will be fine as is. Hope this helps.. Hope you are feeling better too! : ) Let us know how it all works.. i think the more you mess with them over the winter..the more you have problems. Try and forget them and they will be fine. It is hard to do, but they will be alright.. Take care, Laura
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Hm. Just found new leaves unfurling on My Valentine, too, in the south window. You know, D, I think I had tip damage, too, on my Singapore that first winter I kept it in the garage. There are east and north windows in there but I think Singapore is especially cold-sensitive. I've heard the same about reds so all those precious rainbows, reds, and named varieties are in the house since they're all pretty small. Anything still stored in the garage is on top of a paint bucket and off the concrete floor. Guess you can't tell what's "too cold" until it's too late, and in Virginia your longer winters are maybe just too much for some of your varieties. I wish I could figure all this out myself without losing any plants or tips! As you say, Kms, maybe the same huge gene pool that gives us such varied colors and scents also gives us big ranges of temperature tolerance. Ya'll have a great Christmas Day! We're finally getting some much-needed rain before a hard freeze tomorrow. If only we had a touch of snow, too! Jen
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Dave in NoVA • N. Virginia • zone 7A
13 years ago
I usually remove at least 2/3 of the leaves before I bring them in. Over winter they lose more, but most retainp at least a few on each tip. I think this is good, since the leaves allow some transpiration and cause moisture to be pulled up from the soil -- and it keeps the sap running to the tips, reduced stress on the plant and helps ward off black tip. (I water the soil enough to keep it barely moist).

You don't say how long you keep your lights on. I keep my lights on around 8 or 9 hours. I think if you were to keep lights on for 12 - 14 hours, or more, you'd probably see vegetative growth -- but it would be soft and would welcome even more spider mite activity. But even at 8 hours, I had four plants blooming over winter. This was in a warm room. In my cooler rooms and garage none of the plants bloomed, but some are forming inflos, which is a very good thing.
tropicalzone7
13 years ago
I dont have mine by grow lights, but I do have some by a south window (which gets very warm and very bright). One of my plumerias didnt lose a single leaf (as far as I remember) while it was indoors and actually grew a lot and made a full inflo, but my Plumeria "Divine" (which is by a similar window) lost half its leaves indoors and hasnt really grown at all while indoors.
It seems to really depend on the plumeria. I have a plumeria that was not in bright lights and it still retained about 3-5 leaves, but another one in that same condition lost every leaf as soon as it went inside and is now starting to break dormancy.
Good luck!
-Alex
£opaka
13 years ago
All plumies will continue to grow,flower,and maintain their leaves if you have enough grow light power. You also have to keep it warm enough 60 degrees is not good enough. If you want healthy leaves and to continue the vegetative growth state you need lots of light and warm temps. Basically try to replicate spring and summer conditions,warm temps and light for about 10-12hrs if your GH is not getting any natural sunlight. You can also root any plumie under the lights if they are strong enough. 400w is ok but 600w or 1000w is better just depends on the size of the area you are trying to cover.I used to alternate my lights with 1 hour of HPS light in the morning to mimic sunrise and 2 hours of HPS at night to mimic sunset. The MH lights would be on during the other times.
Not enough light power will result in elongation of the plumerias..
arctictropical
Original Author
13 years ago
Thanks for your comments everyone. The lights on my plummies are on for 12 hours. I have two sets of lights that trade off being on or off every 12 hours, so that my room doesn't get too hot from both sets of lights being on at the same time. I figure 80 degrees is warm enough for a basement room. It's funny. Some plants will put out a bunch of leaves, and then drop most of them, and start over putting out new leaves. Kind of like they were going through dormancy more than once.
£opaka
13 years ago
When the lights are off in your basement what are the temps?
The plumies should not drop their leaves..
The problem has to be not enough light or temp to cool when lights are off.
Loveplants2 8b Virginia Beach, Virginia
13 years ago
Hey Kevin,

I have three trees that i have kept under lights this winter..Wizard...Celadine..and California Sunset (set off to the side of the lights) All of the trees are doind fine..i had blooms on the Wizard Celadine for a couples of months..now they are without blooms...but the CS that i had off to the side is thriving..with two inflos...they have lost some leaves,,but not to many that they look klike they are trying to go dormant. I have had a time with spider mites this winter...cycles on and off...i win..then they decide to fight back..LOL...My temps in that room stays the same...

Do you have any blooms right now?

Any pics?

Always love to see what you have done...you do a great job with all of your plants and trees...

Take care Kevin..hope spring comes early for you!!! : )

Laura in VB
arctictropical
Original Author
13 years ago
lopaka, I have two sets of lights on for 12 hours per day, so the temperatures never fall below 70. It's usually 70 at night and up to 80 in the daytime. Since they are under high intensity lights, I think it's because they just want to go dormant. Hi Laura. Nothing in bloom right now but I do have a "Mini-white" from Jungle Jacks that has pretty much lost it's leaves, but does have an inflo. that showed up and is still growing, but slowly. I wonder if some have lost their leaves from too much Neem oil. Man, the spider mites are relentless. Each plant behaves so differently. I've got a 2 year old seedling that is putting out the largest, most perfectly shaped healthy green leaves at the same time as others are going dormant. Spring? Yeah, it's starting to finally show up. Can't wait to take my outside palm boxes off. I'm sure the palms can't wait, either! I'm sure as in the past 2 years, my Windmill palm has produced a nice large inflo. already, under it's box.
Andrew Scott
13 years ago
Hi Kevin,
I have had some plumeria that went almsot all winter without losing one leaf. I had mine all under my 600 watt HPS light for 8 hours or so a day. I checked my soil temps on my 'Divine' (which is leafing out now and thriving) and it read 84 degrees.

My Penang Peach came with an inflo and a ton of buds. That was November and it bloomed straight thru to January I believe and then it dropped its leaves. Some of my plumeria went completely bare, like celadine, intense rainbow, and Axtec Gold while others like the PP held on to there leaves late.

Hi Laura,
Youve got mail!! I cannot wait for our plumeria to arrive. Sonia told me next week! I am also getting a cutting of 'Elsie'!! I am thrilled about this PP seedling. Good luck to you and I too have had problems with the darn spider mites!! My poor Axtec Gold was coming along nicely until that darn infestation about a month ago.

Seems like the more light and heat you give them, the more problems with the darn mites you have!

Take care,

Andrew
labland
13 years ago
Andrew,

Wow, you soil temp is in the 80's? I just checked mine last week and mine outside was just up to 65. Haven't checked this week, since we have had a longer period of warm weather... Of course now it is cooling off again. Typical So. Cal. Spring.

I happen to have a plant that had a very late inflo that developed. It never died off, and it is starting to develop flowers again! Yeah!
Loveplants2 8b Virginia Beach, Virginia
13 years ago
Hello Everyone,

Those darn Spider Mites...i hear you Kevin and Andrew...i have had a constant battle only on those two trees...the rest are fine..but i will keep at it with spraying them down until i can get them all outside..

Temps here in VB hit 80 today..nighttime temps are in the upper 50's..im checking the forecast because with our strange weather...you can blink and have a snowstorm..LOL..
Im just a little weary about bringing them outside...but i think today is the day...

Kevin..please let us know about your boxed Windmills are doing..i will be curious to see if you have a bloom in there again...great work...you know how impressed i am with all of your protection methods...how tall is the tree now?

Andrew..i just got home from work...and my pkg has arrived...i will take a look later when it is light outside..im really excited for you about your Elsie!! Woo hoo!!!

Chat with you later...

Take care everyone...

Laura in VB
arctictropical
Original Author
13 years ago
Hi Laura. I forget. Where is VB? The outdoor palms are doing great! I peeked under one of my 8' boxes at my oldest outdoor palm, my Med. fan palm and it looks perfectly healthy and happy. I'm sure my younger Mexican Fan Palm, and 15' Windmill Palm are also just fine. I'll take the boxes off sometime next month. Regarding these spider mites - it's probably good we have something to take our frustrations out on so that we don't do it elsewhere! Die, spider mites, die! Ha ha. Take care.....

Kevin
Loveplants2 8b Virginia Beach, Virginia
13 years ago
Hey Kevin,

I live in Virginia Beach, Virginia...that why i shorten it up with only VB!!! Dont know why...just a habit from the beginning of signing out!!

Congratulations on the sucesss of your Palms...you always do a great job on protecting them... : ) You know how much i love palm trees...i have several here in my yard as well...

Those Spider Mites...i would like to drown them if i could!!! LOL...they are such a hassel to deal with...they dont bother anything else under the lights...just the Plumies...what is up with that?

Cant wait until you post some pics Kevin..make sure that you through in some of you palms over here..we would love to see them...especially when they find out where you live!!! Growing Palms in------------? Unbelievable!!!

Take care my friends...here's to an early spring....

CHEERS!!!

Laura in VB
arctictropical
Original Author
13 years ago
Hi again Laura. It's so nice we have a forum to chat across the many miles. I've always said that the people who love plants are the best people in the world. Growing Palms in......? I live near Logan, Utah (extreme northern Utah), in a beautiful mountain valley called Cache Valley. The early trappers in the 1800's stored their "cache" of furs here. Yes, Spring is coming! Even here in the frozen lands of the north. I'm sure here in northern Utah we will see snow in April, and most likely in even in May. That's OK. I'm not only addicted to plants, but snow boarding!

Kevin
Loveplants2 8b Virginia Beach, Virginia
13 years ago
Hey Kevin,

I thought it was Utah...but wasn't sure... LOL..I didnt want to post something that was wrong..i remember those beautiful pictures of the snow capped mountains with your beautiful tropical palm trees!!

Quite the site to see for us nature lovers!!!

Have fun snowboarding!! I'll stick to skiing!! The black diamonds dont bother me...but if i was a few years younger..Uuuuuhummm...i would change to snowboarding..(i did try it once....Wow..hit my head hard a few times...then wondered why i would change if i could ski anything!! LOL..) My son loves snowboarding as well...so you young guys and gals enjoy the "boarding" I'll stick to what works for me!!! LOL...

Keep us updated on all of your Plumies and other beauties!!

Take care Kevin..

Yes..it is nice to chat with all of our friends across the miles...great poeple!!!

Laura in VB
labland
13 years ago
Hi Guys, I haven't got much to say about growing under lights, 'cause I don't! Kevin, I used to spend my summers as a kid ( 40 hrs. Ago) in Kanab, Utah. Back then I didn't mind the heat! But loved the country, And beautiful. I have skied in Utah, and it was awesome. Found out difference between powder and Sierra Cement- as people call the snow at Mammoth. Stopped skiing long ago. I agree with Laura, if I were younger, snowboarding looks fun!

Laura, looks like your weather back there is warming up. Soon your plants will be coming outside.

Nice to see such a diverted group of people love plumerias! Jennifer
£opaka
13 years ago
As I said before plumies will not go dormant if given enough light and temps are warm enough.If these 2 conditions are met the plumies will grow and keep their leaves!!! If your plumies meet these conditions and they are still dropping their leaves then you have another problem. I see you guys are talking about spider mites. If you have a infestation of mites they will cause the plant to stress plus they will kill off the leaves faster then normal causing them to drop. The fact you said the plumies are dropping the leaves but continue to put out new ones tells me the mites are the issue. Control the mites and the plumies will recover nicely.
You may want to hang a few of those Hot Shot No-Pest Strips in your GH,just don't stay in there too long and breathe the chems.
http://www.hotshotbrand.com/ProductCategories/IndoorInsecticides/NoPestStrip/
Loveplants2 8b Virginia Beach, Virginia
13 years ago
Hello Everyone,

Hey Kevin...

Hey Jen...yes the weather here is staring to break..im watching the weather daily..dont trust it here...it can change on a minutes notice...so i will continue to be watchful....

(LOL...about the cement verses powder!!! ) I learned to ski here on the East coast...same thing...ice..cement!!)
The i visited Whistler/Blackcomb...and had to adjust to Knee Deep powder...had to change everything...what a great experience...had the opp to try Helisking..but the visibility was to low...that was my only chance...now..(15 years ago) now...wouldnt take the chance..LOL...ill stay on the interm.slopes!!! Maybe some BD's!!!

Sorry to go off topic...but made me think of great memories..esp..talking of "cement" LOL...

Lopaka...thanks for the info...sounds great!!!

Take care everyone!!!

Laura in VB

Question on plumeria dormancy under winter grow lights

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